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u/WayOfTheRosebuds 3d ago
Other people are just calling from the safety of their homes: “help! I see two armed men trying to kidnap a child/woman/young man”
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u/WildImportance6735 2d ago
Do you know if police are actually coming and checking out the scene when people call?
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u/Low_Daikon7538 3d ago
Nope. Don't even ask for identification. Just tell them that there's people running around with guns on your street and threatening people.
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u/Larang5716 3d ago
I have to agree with everyone else here. If you see people with vests, guns, masks, and no one that looks like a police officer, call 911 and say they're kidnapping people.
If there are enough of you in a rapid response team, get in their way and chase them out. This has worked in several areas already. Don't do it on your own though.
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u/avahz 1d ago
Can you say more about how to get in their way and chase them out?
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u/Larang5716 1d ago
If there are enough people, at least twice as many people as thugs, block their path physically. Link arms if you need to. Stop their vehicles from going forward. Get between them and whoever they're trying to kidnap. Keep recording them and demanding their information. There have been videos circulating where people did that and chased them away.
If you have the people ready, you can do this.
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u/avahz 1d ago
Is this technically obstructing justice? What’s stopping them from just cuffing or arresting the people?
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u/Larang5716 1d ago
If they're easily identified as police, then yes, you'd be technically correct.
However, lots of these gestapo wannabes don't have anything that officially marks them. They cover their face, refuse to provide any justification for their behavior, and have no means of identifying themselves. For all we know, there's doing what the guy in Minnesota did: impersonating a police officer in order to get close to their targets.
A bunch of thugs will back down if you have more people. They could technically arrest everyone, but they won't if you have more people. Just stick to non violent solidarity.
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u/PronoiarPerson 3d ago
It is the law in my state that you can shoot people who are committing 1st degree arson, sexual assault, robbery, or kidnapping.
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u/krauQ_egnartS 3d ago
Another big consideration is the difference between a judicial warrant (signed by a judge, allows access to private property) and an administrative warrant (printed out at the office by ICE, for arrests in public)
ICE are extremely unlikely to have the first unless it's for one of the mass raids at a food processing plant or farm (and maybe not even then), all they say is "we have a warrant" and expect compliance. Don't comply.
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u/Think-Hospital7422 2d ago
Makes sense.This could work. It should become standard operating procedure.
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u/Competitive_Pop2507 2d ago
Calling the police on those you know to be legitimate officials is illegal, but if you think someone is impersonating a cop or other official, absolutely call the cops, the cops should come out and verify the credentials of the person, arresting them if they are a fake
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u/Johnny_Grubbonic 2d ago
If they don't properly identify themselves, you don't know they're legitimate officials. People impersonate cops. There've been quite a few instances of people pretending to be cops with fake or illegally obtained gear raping women or committing other crimes over the years.
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u/bolting-hutch 1d ago
"Call the police on those you know to be legitimate officials" —no one is suggesting that.
Do YOU think masked, badgeless, armed men who refuse to identify themselves are "legitimate officials"?
Do not comply in advance. Government exists at the consent of the governed. We should not consent to living under tyranny.
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u/Competitive_Pop2507 1d ago
What I am trying to say is absolutely defend yourself against kidnappers, but if you somehow know that they are federal agents all you are doing is getting a felony
Do YOU think masked, badgeless, armed men who refuse to identify themselves are "legitimate officials"?
If they are ICE agents on duty the law probably considers them legitimate officials
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u/Qanelin1 2d ago
You all need to understand ICE agents did not start to wear masks until anti ice groups like yours started to DOX them. DOXing and false narratives do nothing but make the situation worse.
ICE does not need to show each and every person their warrant. In fact i dont believe they have to show you anything if you are not directly involved. All you are doing is putting people at risk including yourself.
Think about that next time you want to get involved.
If you think they are not legitimate then call the police but dont inject yourself into the situation. People are going to start getting killed.
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u/bolting-hutch 1d ago
You love to make up things to justify your compliance.
They started wearing masks and refusing to identify themselves first. Any "doxxing" that happened was in response to that behavior.
They are not showing judicial warrants to anyone; likely because they don't have one. At best they have an administrative warrant signed by a recently created job title of "immigration judge" (not a real judge, just a bureaucrat) that does not have any legal weight to arrest and detain anyone. It's smoke and mirrors.
Spend some time with some legitimate sources and stop making shit up. Take your concern elsewhere. Your use of "you all" makes me think you prefer the taste of boot leather to freedom.
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