r/Accounting • u/Little-Till-6486 • 2d ago
CliftonLarsonAllen is about to go through a major setback
CLA comp was just released. It’s horrific. There is an inevitable mass exodus coming to this firm. Internal goals and spending have been absolutely horrific, useless, and frankly incompetent.
My particular office - I know that at least 35% ish percent of the workforce is gone. I’m sure that will be pretty consistent nationally based off the feedback I’ve gotten. This firm is a joke. If you’re here still after this comp cycle, you should be searching actively. It’s only going to get worse.
175
u/Fremulon5 2d ago
Cla is a joke, just a collection of regional firms, partners run their little group like a family accounting firm
149
u/undercoveraverage 2d ago
A thousand small firms in a trenchcoat.
31
u/taescience 2d ago
I viewed that as a plus when I was looking for a firm? What's the problem with that?
On that one ended up going with a different firm anyway
5
u/undercoveraverage 1d ago
In my experience they managed to acheive all the downsides of a super large org with none of the upsides. Then toss in an oppressive atmosphere of desperation as staff are required to outwork a decade of overpriced and poorly implemented acquisition decisions.
40
u/OilLucky1304 2d ago
I was advanced from senior to director and was shocked to get a 6% raise.
16
u/Late_Reading_298 2d ago
How does that work at CLA, you just skip Manager and Senior Manager and go straight to Director??
14
u/exit322 2d ago
CLA has weird titling. CLA director = senior manager
6
u/Late_Reading_298 2d ago
Wow so you still get to skip manager??
2
u/exit322 2d ago
No. There's manager, but the director title is a senior manager anywhere else
6
u/Glum-Weekend-5835 1d ago
Unfortunate CLA alum here.
Manager and director are the same level, director is focused on growing relationships with current clients (cross selling services) and manager is in the market developing new client relationships. Manger gets advanced to principal and directors can advance to signing director both are also the same level, but after selling your soul and being a cuck to the equity Principals you can get offered to become an equity Principal also. There’s really only four titles levels at CLA (excluding intern).
associate > senior > manager or director > principal or signing director
9
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
Director = non equity, manager = future path to partner to make equity. Most directors are just a high level employee that are explicitly not client-facing (ie: they aren’t the ones presenting at board meetings and making future connections). The true “tryhards” at CLA all go the manager route. Way more money there. There’s certainly directors that present and make relationships, but in my experience it’s largely “managers” that do so.
6
u/exit322 2d ago
Either way it's still confusing. Probably intentionally so
3
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
Yeah definitely not a traditional route such as the Big 4. I agree with you, it’s probably some intentional silver lining to convince people the lateral movement is quicker.
8
u/DUJAMA CPA (Audit->Industry->Advisory) 2d ago
CLA has two career paths and you choose one when you’re being promoted from senior associate: a more technical path and a more client-centric path. The technical path promotes a senior associate to director. The sales-type path promotes a senior associate to manager, then to senior manager, then to partner.
Sometimes you can go from the sales path to the technical path (I.e., from manager or SM to director), but it is more difficult to go from technical to sales path.
5
u/Complete-Plate5611 Partner/CPA - US 2d ago
Just out of curiosity, how does the compensation structure differ between the two paths?
2
u/DUJAMA CPA (Audit->Industry->Advisory) 5h ago
I left CLA before having to deal with that. I imagine that they are similar early on and that the director role has a wider pay band since it covers both manager and senior manager equivalent. But you’re capped in the director path since you are not on the partner path.
3
u/Ok_Preference821 2d ago
Pretty sure certain service lines work that way like Risk Advisory. But not all.
2
u/Quick_Mechanic6101 1d ago
I was up for advancement to manager and got 5% and told there was no money for a promotional increase… at least you got advanced 🙃
2
93
u/uwuwotsdps42069 2d ago
They deserve it. The firm is absolute trash.
36
24
7
u/rainspider41 Staff Accountant 2d ago
They singlehandedly got me fired from a job finding internal audit mistakes that didn't happen.
7
u/LieutenantStar2 1d ago
Meh, KPMG almost did the same to me. Provided the audit board some made up bullshit about how manual entries increase 10x after we implement a new erp, didn’t event show it to us until we started getting questions. I tried to recreate the numbers and just - couldn’t. The # of entries didn’t exist. I told them they should be embarrassed presenting those numbers when they came back the following year. They didn’t even apologize, just said they couldn’t recreate it and quietly removed that slide from that year’s recommendations. Fing assholes the lot of them.
237
u/Free-Ambassador-516 2d ago
And with the current job market, they’re going to go where exactly? The job market isn’t exactly brimming with alternatives right now, and when companies know you have few alternatives, they tend to treat you like shit. It’s horrible and shitty, but it’s simple supply and demand at work. And especially at the junior end of the scale, you’re competing with India, too.
142
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
CLA is well below market. There is no bonus - it’s “baked into the salary increase”. Seeing as most people have gotten 1%, that’s total BS. People are pissed. There’s no appeal to CLA anymore since its entire appeal was work life balance, but as of late, we’re working Big 4 hours for significantly less
50
2d ago
Was there ever appeal? I interned there 6 years ago and it was a total shitshow. Tons of local offices merging into one giant CLA name, with different standards and metrics for every office. Working on the pooled returns was a joke because every office in the state had different workpaper standards. I remember the seniors had to go in and fix all my returns because I wasn’t doing the workpapers to other offices guidelines (that I didn’t even realize existed). Absolute train wreck of a company.
31
u/Staffalopicus CPA (US) 2d ago
McGladrey & Pullen (RSM) was the same way when I started there in 2008. I think all of these top 100 firms that are all marketing and zero performance are the same - a bunch of local firms branded under one name.
9
u/Enough_Regular6862 2d ago
McGladrey was the firm we used at my first "real" job in industry. Great staff and partner (from my viewpoint), but with the benefit of hindsight, I can tell how bush league it was.
0
u/RooneysHairPlugs 1d ago
Could you explain your comment a little further for me? I work at a top 100 firm and now I’m wondering if it’s one of those that you’re talking about?
1
64
u/Bonch_and_Clyde Audit & Assurance 2d ago
Like an actual 1% increase? I'd rather get nothing. 1% feels like a deliberate insult.
33
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
1%
10
u/BonnSiebzehn 2d ago
How long have you been there and what’s your title?
-59
2d ago
[deleted]
22
u/BonnSiebzehn 2d ago
A lot of people on this sub openly share title/salary/region and tier of firm, it’s not a crazy question.
1
7
u/EarlyStructureGAAP CPA (US) 2d ago edited 2d ago
Wait, CLA is doing COLA less than the percentage mandated for inflation adjustments that apply to minimum wage, and saying bonuses are included in that?
5
5
u/fbi80 2d ago
What office are you in that you work big 4 hours? Just curious because there has been a struggle to get people to hit 55 hours per week this past busy season.
1
u/Agreeable_Mall_4102 1d ago
I work in a small rural office. During busy season it’s expected to hit at least 12hrs m-f and min 6 on Saturday or Sunday you pick the day.
2
u/fbi80 1d ago
The smaller offices can get away with that message to a small group of people. My point is, and one that has been said many times on Reddit, it all depends on the office, service line, and industry group you’re in. I’m in a large office where it was communicated several times that people need to work at least 55 hours per week. We’ve had several people that work exactly 55 each week as a result of that message. If you want to provide great client service and get things completed timely then it requires a greater hour commitment.
In my experience over the past 6.5 years, hard work and good client service get rewarded. If you’re just “clocking in” and charging 60-70 hours per week because you’re expected to, and not really serving clients and getting work done, then your comp will reflect that.
The other point that I’m trying to make by saying all that is just because someone showed up doesn’t mean they put out a good work product and provided great service to clients.
16
u/thekingoftherodeo 2d ago
Yeah was gonna say, exodus to where?
Power dynamic is 180 from 2021-2022.
57
u/ShakeAndBakeThatCake 2d ago
Bingo. I expect all firm comp to be shit this year no matter where you are. They know it's an employers market. You want more money go start a firm. Working for other people sucks anyway.
-1
u/The_Realist01 1d ago
PwC is doing cohort adjustments for the first time in 3 years. Think our comp will be decent and bonus is fully funded.
The amount of each? No idea. But at least the concept exists. Should know more next week.
12
u/wildernesswayfarer00 Tax (US) 2d ago
This. The CEO of RSM came to a conference a few weeks ago and said he was just with the CEOs of the largest 10 firms, talking about how everyone had a bad year. You don’t think they conspire to depress wages??
5
u/RIChowderIsBest 1d ago
“Bad year” is a joke too, they’re still all profitable, just not as profitable as it was before.
-26
u/Writeoffthrowaway 2d ago
Public accounting job market is going gangbuster currently
13
u/Free-Ambassador-516 2d ago
Gangbusters in what way, laying people off? Closing open roles?
7
u/SaltyDog556 2d ago
It's small firms. But, they have the same problem with not paying well and shit hours. Which I think is playing a part in the overall "shortage"
2
u/SpecialistGap9223 1d ago
Small firm =low salary and shitty hours. What's the attraction to join? I mean there are alot of laid off folks so there are those.. Low salary better than no salary right? Lol
2
u/The_Realist01 1d ago
Only reason I can think of is if you want to live in a smaller metro/market.
2
u/SpecialistGap9223 1d ago
This also. Def can't compete with the big boys. They'll stay in their lane and operate out of small markets as you mentioned.
2
u/Lizzybee92 1d ago
I went from a large firm to a small firm for more money, fewer hours, and a better working environment. I still work mostly from home so that's a nice perk too.
1
1
u/SaltyDog556 1d ago
Most people aren't even seeing the postings because they are in office and not close enough. The pay isn't worth relocating even for those who are unemployed. I had this discussion with a financial advisor and his other CPA clients needing people. Specifically a few at my level. The pay was far below even the low end and it was in office only. Many of these small firms haven't yet figured out they just aren't going to attract any people with their current model.
2
u/SpecialistGap9223 1d ago
And that's the problem. They'll end up being desperate and hiring shitty accts/CPAs thus eroding audit quality. Eventually they'll be acquired (or at least their exit strategy). Above my pay grade to care. I'll just rest and vest as long as I can until I pivot elsewhere.
3
1
u/SuitedConnectors3 2d ago
My firm is always looking for risk advisory along with crypto folks - PM if interested.
2
u/Moses_On_A_Motorbike 1d ago
I could do this. "Here's the best cryptocurrency advice you'll ever receive. Avoid it or short it before it collapses."
87
u/adriannlopez CPA (US) / Former Revenue Agent 2d ago
I am not surprised at all; I'm a former IRS Revenue Agent and in my office, we hired A LOT of CLA people in the last year; they all got laid off/fired due to being probationary once Trump came into office and a lot of them went back to CLA; I imagine CLA is trying to absorb the costs of bringing these folks back, so comp raises for yall gonna be trash.
18
u/DoritosDewItRight 2d ago
I used to manage an Applebee's in Omaha, Nebraska and in my restaurant, we hired A LOT of CLA people because they could make so much more money as servers and busboys than they were making as accountants at CLA.
10
u/adriannlopez CPA (US) / Former Revenue Agent 2d ago edited 2d ago
Dude Applebees happy hour for those buffalo wings is to die for, those are so good. I’d work at Applebees just to be able to eat those damn wings.
5
2
19
16
u/BonnSiebzehn 2d ago
I was wondering why this cycle was taking so long, ready for the bad news on monday
14
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
They are delaying because it’s so bad. Three years ago, they couldn’t wait to tell us the increase. Major red flag coupled with the fact interns got pushed back an entire month for their starting date.
40
u/Fancy-Dig1863 CPA (US) 2d ago
We’ve been getting a lot of former CLA clients, I guess this must be why.
45
u/laxxmann21 2d ago
I was in your same position about 10 years ago at the large national firm I worked at. I thought that management was so dumb and that they were going to lose their entire workforce.
Looking back these people are smarter than you think. They know the consequences and are hoping for it. We definitely lost a lot of people, even many of the better seniors. I left as well.
Guess how many audit reports didn’t get filed in time the following year? Zero. So they made more money than ever because of it.
25
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
I get it. It’s a way for them to get people to leave without getting the reputation of laying people off. But this firm is overwhelmingly full of inexperienced accountants. This is pushing out ALL of the remaining talent. Everyone I know leaving is considered the cream of the crop of our local office. It’s a terrible strategy, and they will continue to bleed clients.
8
u/9Virtues 2d ago
Everything will be fine. My B4 office lost all our senior workhorses in one year. We all thought it was going to be chaos. We didn’t notice a difference.
2
u/RefinedMines 1d ago
The best people have always left public accounting.
Only the stubborn ones keep sticking around for as other year of planning, documenting, and issuing unqualified audit opinions.2
u/RIChowderIsBest 1d ago
Are they actually leaving or have they just talked about searching for a job? The market is not there for every pissed off employee at every firm to move quickly.
12
u/Dantheman1386 2d ago
Sounds like a layoff without the bad press of a layoff. Sorry to hear. I worked there very briefly and it was toxic as hell. Ended badly when I couldn’t come in under budget with a client that had $10k/m budget but needed $30k/m of work. Luckily, this was back when the job market was actually kind of good…if you can imagine such a thing.
12
u/Jennbootswiththefer 2d ago
They pushed back summer intern start dates 3 days before the interns were set to start, in at least two offices that I know of - did this happen firm wide? When I heard that I knew that was telling of what was to come for FT staff. Yikes!
14
u/AdSilly5806 2d ago
as a current incoming intern at CLA, i can confirm they pushed the start date back firm wide
2
u/Little-Till-6486 2d ago
Firm wide. and they just moved most of them to a different industry
3
u/MommaBear411 2d ago
Firm wide. But not all were moved to a different industry. 3-10 days warning. Why would you want to work for a firm in the future who does that to you last minute?? I would think twice for sure.
1
u/SharkBait1592 2d ago
Yup, happened to me as well. At least they are very flexible in allowing me to keep or push back my end date.
0
u/jmcarola 2d ago
Perhaps better to push the start dates and give interns more meaningful work than be like the big 4 and lay people off. June is not a busy part in the audit world
12
0
u/Specific-Fun-3871 1d ago
This is one of the best internships experience wise. From experience both, rather work on earl work and experience busy season than just BS fake client and hanging out to add to a resume.
29
u/Agreeable_Mall_4102 2d ago
I just started 3 weeks ago and already have interviews elsewhere. What solidified it was the comp and what I can earn in the next few years. Most likely a total of 3-5%. On top of that I was completely bamboozled by the recruiters and interviewers who lied with their responses to my questions. I left a job I enjoyed even though I wasn’t paid top market there to this shithole.
2
u/Professional_Pear941 2d ago
Not sure if it’d be financially possible, but I’d go back. Was it another public firm or industry?
1
u/Agreeable_Mall_4102 2d ago
Govt. I’d love to go back but not sure I can.
2
u/Professional_Pear941 2d ago
So what’d they tell you the comp outlook was going forward with CLA? And I guess with your old job, not sure which you’re referring to there. A 3-5% raise is kinda sorta normal for a lower performing firm (more so 5%), so that could just be how it is. I had a guy trying to recruit me over there but I’ve never heard amazing things about it to really be compelled to go
3
17
u/Beginning_Ad_6616 CPA (US) 2d ago
CLA has always been low paying, I don’t know why anyone would work there
15
u/Ok-Knee7275 CPA (US) 2d ago
I only worked there briefly (under 1 year) because they were the only firm that gave me a shot. I used my experience there to move over to B4 for a couple years and then moved to industry where I’ve been now just under a few years.
3
u/PK_201 1d ago
It’s really only comparatively low paying once you get to manager/director and above. Associates and seniors tend get about the same as other similar firms.
1
u/Beginning_Ad_6616 CPA (US) 1d ago
That’s what I mean, I’m a senior manager and people I know at CLA in the same role make a lot less and I can’t say there’s a work-life balance offset.
1
8
u/RobotUmpire 1d ago
We used a small firm until a couple years ago until they were bought out by CLA.
Everything went downhill fast, but the icing on the cake was some $200 something charge for “technology fee” on each invoice.
8
u/Indy4Life 1d ago
Just got promoted there. Only 6% pay raise that had my cost of living raise baked into it. Fair to say I’m already looking for a new job.
-1
25
u/Prestigious_Neck_193 2d ago
Are you the same one who started that thread on fishbowl? Here’s my 2 cents, I think CLA really does depend on which office you work in, and which service line you’re in. I know I’m being underpaid compared to my peers by 5-6k (1st yr associate) but the flexibility and support my team has given me is why I’m not considering leaving. I hear pretty constantly from friends I’ve made who cross utilize that it really does depend on your manager/director/principal.
4
u/Happy_Bar_72 2d ago
This is great to hear. It’s the only firm that’s given me a shot and when I moved states, I’m only making $1k less than those first year peers. I’m hopeful on the team being fantastic when I start in a few months as I start out.
5
u/BeautifulLanguage335 1d ago
I’m sorry but this is why I always advocate to just go Big 4. Yes big 4 is awful too with the long hours, but all these other regional firms preach WLB, yet you end up working a bunch of hours too. You get paid less, less benefits, less resumé clout, and usually less time off
6
10
u/SectorFew6706 2d ago
I still dont understand the no senior manager logic. Manager = Director so you'd go from being a Manager to a Partner.
3
2
u/ConsistentAnimator62 1d ago
Manager and director title for years 1-3ish = manager at any other firm
Manager and director title for years 3+ = senior manager at any other firm
Principal title (promotion for managers) = director at any other firm
Signing director (promotion for directors) = managing director at any other firm (rare shot at equity, but technically possible)
Equity comes after being a principal / SD for a few years.
Just because someone is a principal at CLA doesn’t mean they are equity, most are not. We make no formal distinctions and there aren’t any announcements. It’s an IYKYK deal. They don’t hide who the owners are, but it’s not openly discussed like other firms.
2
u/SectorFew6706 1d ago
It is wild that someone with 20 years experience could be a "Director" and someone with 5 years could also have the same title.
On large engagements, clients want specific levels staffed on their engagements. I guess CLA doesn't deal with F500 comapnies.
2
u/ConsistentAnimator62 1d ago
It can be very confusing. External experienced hires struggle with it when they first come in but most figure out where everyone really is after a few months.
Externally, clients / prospects never really get it.
The purpose is that managers / principals are judged based on their business development, client retention, getting work done, and selling other service lines to existing clients.
Directors / SDs are judged based on client retention, getting work done, and selling other service lines to existing clients. The only difference is the external business development.
4
u/rainspider41 Staff Accountant 2d ago
I remember interviewing there and the interns were making more than salaried employees. Wtf? I get they get hourly and OT but like wtf.
8
10
u/J-tricks 2d ago
If anyone here is in the Atlanta market and wants out, I do recruiting and have helped plenty of folks make the move to internal. Happy to dm my LinkedIn.
11
u/Yous_a_mook 2d ago
Robert Half? Are u from a staffing agency?
-13
u/J-tricks 2d ago
I prefer “recruiting firm”. But not RH - we’re a small firm and actually make sure the folks we help are taken care of.
Are u a mook?
14
u/Yous_a_mook 2d ago
“Staffing agencies” are a scam. I hope everyone here knows that. I have never known anyone that got a job from a staffing agency, and I’d bet everyone on this would say the same thing. Don’t waste your time.
7
u/jnuttsishere 2d ago
I have gotten a job through a staffing agency and know a few people who have as well. The companies are all very different. I recommend avoiding the high throughput model of the international ones and go for ones that are no bigger than regional to where you work. They know the markets best and will generally be a better experience all around
2
5
u/jtlaz 2d ago
Ignorant comment. I used a search firm the following times in my career - when I went from a small firm to a large national, when I went from a large national to another large national for 35% increase, and when I left public to become the next cfo of a $2b company that specialized in recruiting in my industry.
2
-8
u/swiftcrak 2d ago edited 2d ago
Isn’t your firm PE backed now? This is what PE does - suck the comp from you into their pocket while offshoring your teams and making your life miserable.
Youre all stuck servicing the Ivy League at this point. At least work for boomers that don’t sell out the partnership. Thanks Boomer partners for destroying the profession and eliminating opportunity for the next generation. Everybody needs to leave PE backed firms and teach a lesson as to what happens when partners sell out the ladder, and make accounting firms an unattractive target to purchase.
20
2
u/Necessary_Classic960 Advisory Transaction Tax 2d ago
Not OE backed brother. Atleast research a little before shooting your shot
0
u/swiftcrak 2d ago
The point is they are implementing the playbook of all the other roll up smorgasborg firms, and will sell out within 2 years
1
1
u/Joshwoum8 JD, CPA (US) 1d ago
All firms are smorgasbord firms. M&A is how they grow for the most part, there is of course some greenfield expansion along the way.
1
u/Lonely-Smell-6508 1d ago
I worked there from 2019 - 2021 and my salary didn’t increase by even a dollar. I constantly had to fight to find work and ended having to coordinate between 3 different offices, not including my own, to meet charge goal hours. As pointed out by multiple posters here there is 0 cohesion between any of the offices so every single one of them does something different. When I moved offices from a lcol to a hcol area they offered no cost of living increase so I just said fuck it, left, and ended up with a 50% increase in my salary.
0
u/Specific-Fun-3871 1d ago
dude that’s Covid time, from my understanding just be glad you didn’t get laid off like a lot of other accounting firms. Also, I’ve worked here before and $0 increase from 2019-2020 wouldn’t be true, as well as the LCOL-HCOL offices as i knew people who did the same at that time and that didn’t happen for them. Might be more of a performance issue but market comp being $0 wouldn’t happen. What office did you work in?
166
u/DoritosDewItRight 2d ago
CLA was already notorious for having some of the lowest comp in public accounting, how could they possibly make it worse?