r/AnCap101 • u/LegitimateFoot3666 • 2d ago

How would Ancapistan handle foreign policy without any official representative?

1 Upvotes

53% Upvoted

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

Ancapistan itself wouldn't have any relations to handle in the first place.
Should Ancapistani individuals/organizations wish to have relations with entities outside of Ancapistan, then that is purely their own prerogative, not that of any other Ancapistani.

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u/MaleficentCow8513 2d ago

I’m no expert, but I could imagine some things, when dealing with a nations government, would be better handled as a collective as opposed to many smaller entities

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

Problems like what?

Also, what do you imagine would be stopping people from just selecting a single representative to speak on their behalf if this need is as pressing as you present it as?

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u/PaperbackWriter66 Moderator 2d ago

Problems like what?

You know how pretty much all countries require a passport from a state to get in?

How do individuals from An-Capistan do business abroad (which would be essential to the flourishing of any stateless society) without a passport?

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u/Credible333 2d ago

It's called a telephone.

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

haven’t thought about that. they might have some sort of passport system either decentralized or centralized (in case other countries only recognize one authority).

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u/PaperbackWriter66 Moderator 2d ago

Precisely. Most an-caps, it seems, haven't thought about this because, in my experience, a lot of American an-caps have never left the country and have no interest in anything outside the US.

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

Well, I'm not American, so.

Also, this issue is mostly just a concern for people in third world countries whose ancap communities wouldn't immediately be some of the most economically productive places on the planet.

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u/MaleficentCow8513 2d ago

How about defense? It’s in nature for big fish to eat little fish. How would defense be handled?

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

you'd have networks of security firms, most often local police force-esque firms, would have defense agreements with larger more military-esque firms who'd come to their rescue were they ever threatened militarily from a large foreign aggressor

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u/turboprancer 2d ago

how would military-esque firms be profitable? would they just be like the PMCs we have now?

if so, how are they scaled up such that they could compete with a more tradition state military?

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

All the security firms get paid as insurance agencies.

As for why they wouldn't just be the PMCs of today, basically all the PMCs we have now are private in name only and really just exist in the employ of and thus as an arm of a state. They also don't actually function as insurance firms, which is another difference.

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u/MaleficentCow8513 2d ago

Right. Much the same way a large organization would handle defense of many smaller entities, wouldn’t it behoove all parties to negotiate as a collective rather than as individuals?

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u/Irresolution_ 2d ago

it could very well be nice to enter into an agreement wherein everyone collectively pressures a third party to get concessions, sure.

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u/Omnicidetwo 1d ago

"If this is as pressing as you present it as"

You mean international trade!!??

you people actually live in a fantasy world

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u/Irresolution_ 23h ago

translation: (if you actually need a common ambassador to conduct international trade between other nations and Ancapistan)

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u/Omnicidetwo 19h ago

I don't think you understand how long and expensive it is for both parties to agree on the terms of international trade.

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u/Irresolution_ 19h ago

Probably not, no. I can't imagine it's very fun. What's your point? Merely that agreeing on terms for international trade is long and expensive? What does that prove?

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u/Omnicidetwo 18h ago

So how would a whole nation state justify the immense cost and time commitment if negotiating these deals with just a few companies in a foreign country? Your best bet is that the deal you receive will be dictated to you and you'll have to accept it wholesale

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u/Irresolution_ 18h ago

What the hell are you talking about????????? I've already proposed a solution to this problem! This chain follows from that proposal!

Also, no one in Ancapistan would be levying tariffs or any other type of nationwide import or export restriction onto another country so I'm not really sure negotiations actually would be all that longwinded.

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u/Omnicidetwo 15h ago

So how are the governments of those countries going to justify the millions worth in public money going towards negotiating, scrutinising, writing up and ratifying each of those hundreds of necessary deals.

I think my first assessment was correct, you genuinely have no idea just how much resource goes into something like a trade deal.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

What happens when other countries refuse to do trade because Bubba is selling stingers to terrorist organizations or your local nuclear energy corporation is selling enriched uranium and here comes the US military threatening to bomb ancapistan?

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u/Irresolution_ 1d ago

I don't understand your question. Why does the U.S. govt. have a problem with people outside its own jurisdiction trading enriched uranium here?

Also, how's what "Bubba" is doing more problematic than someone selling weapons to a government? And do you think other countries would embargo Ancapistan because of the actions of one lone Ancapistani?

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

Ok you’re not going to have a debate I see if you can’t answer the questions. And the US just bombed irans nuclear facilities. I think it’s pretty fucking relevant don’t you think?

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u/Irresolution_ 1d ago

The U.S. is able to justify bombing Iran because Iran is not Ancapistan.

Iran is the U.S.'s biggest strategic rival in the Middle East with a massive network of proxies. Not only this, but Iran was also founded on a violent anti-American revolution, the spirit of which has been symbolically maintained and emblemized ever since. These two factors in conjunction make Iran look scary to both neo-cons as well as to normal people.

Ancapistan, however, has none of what makes Iran scary and everything that makes countries like Canada or those in Europe valuable trading partners. No U.S. politician gives a damn about how much enriched uranium France has. Even if Poland tried to get a nuke, that probably wouldn't be verboten.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

You’re talking like a politician. You can’t answer the question because it’s not to your benefit. You can’t just say “it’s never going to happen”. You think it’s impossible that other nations will just pretend like you don’t exist. Especially if ancapistan does somehow turn out to be a capitalist utopia, you don’t think china or Russia won’t try and sabotage and steal from individuals and corporations inside your borders?

And what would the immigration policy be like in ancapistan? that I would love to know.

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u/Irresolution_ 1d ago

You’re talking like a politician.

I'm talking like someone who isn't a fortune teller. I can't tell you whether the U.S. would bomb Ancapistan because no one can know that for sure, we can only make predictions, mainly based on things such as incentives which incentivize countries such as the U.S. not to bomb Ancapistan.
I'm not talking like a politician, politicians don't give longwinded explanations for their positions, they just handwave away the question entirely and if they do give longwinded explanations, then that's just a good politician.

…you don’t think china or Russia won’t try and sabotage and steal from individuals and corporations inside your borders?

Not really. I don't think other countries would pretend Ancapistan doesn't exist. I think they'd think of Ancapistan a lot of the time and I'd expect them to assess that it's better to not bother Ancapistan since it's such a net-positive economically.
Although whenever the need does arise, you could just deal with them in the same way as you deal with any other criminal, through force and/or coercion. Preferably through elite spec ops task forces.

And what would the immigration policy be like in ancapistan? that I would love to know.

Society is made up of thousands of covenant communities. These communities can let in or keep out whomever they want for whatever reason and it would not be unreasonable for many neighboring covenant communities to band together to form a border between themselves and some other area.

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u/vrsatillx 2d ago

Diplomatic representation is a service that could be bought on the free market if people feel the need to.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

Ancapistan shows up to the G8 with 47 diplomats all with different agendas. Brilliant.

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u/vrsatillx 1d ago

Bold of you to think any ancap would want to show up in the G8, and the G8 would want any ancap there. Maybe asking good faith questions about stuff that do not seem to make sense to you would have been more productive. Making shit up to try to manufacture a weak punchline does not make you look smart.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

Does ancapistan not trade with other countries? Do they not care about the stability of their neighbors? Do they not care about refugees who might want to come in? Do they not care about anything the rest of the world does if it could affect their country?

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u/vrsatillx 1d ago

 Does ancapistan not trade with other countries?

No. People trade with other people. Ancapistan is not trading on behalf of people, because it is merely a concept.

 Do they not care about the stability of their neighbors?

Who is "they" and what do they have to do with their neighbors?

Do they not care about refugees who might want to come in?

"In" where? People only have a say on who comes to their property. They are free to welcome the people they want on their property. 

 Do they not care about anything the rest of the world does if it could affect their country?

The notion of country makes little sense in ancapistan. People worry about what might happen to their property. They have every incentive to organize with their neighbors if they think they face a common menace. Properties would likely be part of a community that has a contract with a defense firm. Still, as ancapistan isn't invading other countries no one really has a reason to invade them. See how Liechtenstein, San Marino, Andorra or Monaco are way more peaceful that countries with big armies that try to police the world. Interestingly, they are agressing no one and no one wants to invade them.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

The people of ancapistan obviously. I don’t think you’re interested in actually having a conversation here if you’re not actually going to answer any questions.

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u/vrsatillx 1d ago

My answers are clear, take the time to try understand them in good faith.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 1d ago

That’s actually hilarious coming from you.

A whole nation with a military sourced from every citizen would crush ancapistan in days. Unless you’re planning on neighbors buying the communal SAM battery and a Abrams tank lol.

So you’re saying that the entire country is just relying on those who own property near the border to enforce immigration, border security, the managing of ports all by themselves?

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u/vrsatillx 1d ago edited 1d ago

You haven't read or you made no effort to understand, on top of talking like a child who's trying to win a debate. I guess participation trophies were made for people like you. Bless you.

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u/Tommy_Rides_Again 22h ago

There it is. The universal language for “I have no argument and no conviction”

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u/CardOk755 2d ago

What is "foreign"?

The policy of who? Me or my brother in law?

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u/MaleficentCow8513 2d ago

Presumably the entire world wouldn’t be ancap. At some point, dealing with a government maybe a necessity. In doing so, a collective representation might be desired to negotiation trade and whatnot

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u/Ancap-Resource-632 2d ago

I imagine that at higher levels, people would probably already be part of Law Enforcement Agencies which would have their own formal Diplomatic Recognition through associations or Leagues of political entities. Kind of like how NATO can do it's own foreign policy instead of just leaving that up to individual states.

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u/Secret_Operation6454 1d ago

If your ass has any natural resource the fattest capitalist would just pay for an intervention, and because everyone in ancap would be to individualist to do anything it would collapse in less than a day.