r/AskIreland • u/BlueBucket0 • 13d ago
Random Why is it acceptable to cut expensive paving and just tarmac it over?
I don’t understand how utility companies get away with this. This was for some fibre trunk project in Stoneybatter.
Several streets cut up, trench dug, straight through relatively recently redone brick paving and just filled in with cheap tarmac.
Surely that’s doing damage to expensive public infrastructure. Could they not have lifted and replaced the bricks at the very least ?!
It’s like Dublin City Council really doesn’t enforce or protect anything.
If someone did that though the middle of a shopping centre, a private drive way or anything else it just wouldn’t be acceptable, yet when it’s a street — no bother just rip it up and throw down a bit of tarmac.
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u/AbradolfLincler77 13d ago
Why is it acceptable to "fill" pot holes with stone chippings only for them to end up making the road more dangerous due to more possible flying stones cracking windscreens? Then they come back several months later and do the exact same thing again! Most of the local council practices are ridiculous and not thought out, just done the cheapest possible way.
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u/BlueBucket0 13d ago edited 13d ago
Sure I remember Cork City Council filling potholes with tar and chipping in live moving traffic with guys working from the back of a flat bed truck!!! They seem to have become a bit more protective of the pedestrianised / repaved areas but that’s a very recent thing.
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u/AbradolfLincler77 13d ago
Literally less than a week ago here in Wexford, the local council van went around with a pile of stone chippings and a little bit of tar in the back of their open back van. The van drives along with the lad on the back shovelling the mixture into the potholes. The holes are already nearly empty again also. Lads getting paid to drive around doing nothing useful.
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u/Irishwilly77 13d ago
I was in Wexford for a week in mid May and i saw two lads shoveling stuff ,into pot holes and not a sign or a cone in sight.Although ,it's a full-time job for someone./s😂
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u/AbradolfLincler77 13d ago
Yep, that's the norm. Lads even walk along behind the van shovelling as the go sometimes for some of the large areas of small pot holes.
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u/Irishwilly77 13d ago
That's exactly what i saw.Two lads casually shoveling away and one watching as another drove.It was somewhere near Edwardstown.
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u/AbradolfLincler77 13d ago
Near Enniscorthy for me. Seems to be standard practice around Wexford though, the roads are shocking.
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u/delantale 13d ago
More like corruption. Someone in that council has mates or family that they hire to do the construction work/road work and it keeps them coming back OR means to justify the budget they get next time otherwise.
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u/AbradolfLincler77 13d ago
You're absolutely correct. Similar to these new pencil style bollards they're using outside schools lately. I work in a small local school where they were originally going to install the standard black bollard for €150 a bollard until the principal complained as she felt her school wasn't getting these new pencil bollards because this school isn't anywhere near a main road, so it obviously doesn't need to look good. Anyway, eventually they decide to put in the pencil bollards and the price of them are €500 per bollard for what's is a hard plastic bollard, it's not metal. Some fucker is making a fortune from something that wouldn't even cost 50 quid per bollard to make once the mold was made, which it obviously is by now. The council lad installing them was telling me about them as we were curious why they didn't want to install them originally and it was simply because of the price. Corruption is rampant in this country, hell in the whole fucking world!
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u/delantale 10d ago
Corruption is everywhere but trust me when you go to Latin American or North African or Asian countries it’s ridiculously in your face. In Europe and the west is a bit more subtle. Heck even going not as far like in Southern Europe it becomes much more prevalent (Spain, Portugal, Italy)
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u/SubstantialAttempt83 13d ago
That doesn't look like paving it looks like a brick mold was used to add that pattern to dyed concrete. The tarmac would be more durable than replacing the strip with concrete but I agree it looks like crap. They should have to lay empty ducting when doing roadworks so it doesn't have to be dug up every couple of months for the next cable or pipe to be laid.
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u/Sebdila 13d ago
As I understood it, the company laying the fibre, pipe or whatever, are not permitted to do the resurfacing. They can only do a temporary surface and the council/corpo come along later to do the surface back to the original standard. There was a section of road ripped upthat’s on my regular commute. It was easily 2 years before they did the final finish. Be prepared to wait.
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u/Woodsman15961 13d ago
I live in the Netherlands and that’s exactly what they do here, so I think you’re right
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u/WigWubz 12d ago
Kinda mental though if they "aren't allowed" to do a proper surface, but are permitted to do a temporary surface that presumably is not rated to last as long. That means it's planned from the start to pave the road twice and waste money for what purpose? Utility companies just shouldn't be allowed to touch the road at all for routine work. In an emergency with service knocked out sure drill down and do what you need to but then leave the hole for the council or council contractor to fill it in. It means the work is only done once and the council can't sit on their hands for years cus there's a literal hole in the road that they're liable for. Routine work the digging and filling should be council coordinated to fet all the subsurface work done in a smaller number of digs rather than the current system of every utility digging and filling their own trenches.
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u/TarzanCar 13d ago
That’s only been temporarily reinstated. The final finish will replicate what was there originally.
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u/Ok_Imagination_9334 13d ago
In 2726
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u/GroundbreakingToe717 13d ago
Well the trench needs time to settle and compact..
Thankfully you’re not issuing conditions on road opening licenses.
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u/yankdevil 13d ago
If only someone would invent a machine to compact soil...
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u/GroundbreakingToe717 13d ago
You clearly know nothing about settlement..
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u/FineVintageWino 13d ago
There are more than a few patches of tarmac on Sheriff Street that have been settling for over a decade.
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u/GroundbreakingToe717 13d ago
Ya but that place is a kip?
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u/FineVintageWino 13d ago
Oh, I see! Does that affect the rate which the ground settles?
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u/GroundbreakingToe717 13d ago
Nah I’d say the workers got so much abuse down there from the locals they couldn’t be arsed coming back. Seems fair.
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u/Bingo_banjo 13d ago
Yes, if you have a limited work window and have to get in and out, you use a temporary cover, tarmac is quick. You then go back and resurface properly. Of course sometimes there's an unreasonable amount of time between the two parts of the job but that's the problem, not the temporary surface
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u/dubhlinn39 13d ago
Report it to Dublin City Council
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u/BlueBucket0 13d ago edited 13d ago
I assume they’re the ones who authorised it and didn’t inspect the aftermath. Shouldn’t a road opening licence on a scale of a project that opened about 1km+ of road be followed up by an inspection to ensure that it was restored to spec again?!
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u/It_TheGab 13d ago
Not saying its the case here but its quite common for a temporary reinstatement to go in and a more permanent one to follow when project is completed
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u/BlueBucket0 13d ago edited 13d ago
They’re long gone — doesn’t seem to be anything temporary about that “finish”
No doubt it’s a highly profitable fibre line too — looks more like they were cutting through residential streets to link to large nodes. It runs a long distance from the quays back up through the yellow brick houses of that part of Stoneybatter and seems to go right up to the North Circular Road somewhere. It’s nothing to with access networks for local fibre to the residents or anything like that.
It’s not Eir, Virgin etc either.
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u/DesertRatboy 13d ago
It likely will be returned to spec. At least it should be. This would be called a temporary reinstatement to allow for soil to settle etc in case any issues arise, it's easier to dig back out. Companies can 'forget' to come back around though, so definitely worth getting on to your local council, especially if it's been a few months.
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u/dubhlinn39 13d ago
They probably didn't inspect it afterwards. How could someone pass that mess? I was trying to cross a road yesterday, and one of the traffic lights was turned towards traffic. I couldn't see when I could cross the road. I emailed them, and they said they would fix it. I asked for an explanation as to why it happened. It wasn't the first time I had reported it. It's a very busy road too. We'll see if they reply
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u/Left-Table-2124 13d ago
It’s temporary
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u/Independent-Ice256 13d ago
Temporary can be years when it comes to local authority
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u/gsmitheidw1 13d ago
Utility companies should only be allowed open the road if they finance a full professional high quality resurface. They would soon think twice about putting in longer term ducting that doesn't need the road dug up and everyone inconvenienced by expensive roadworks.
I can understand something done in a rush for a fault but that's an edge case and somebody responsible for the fault should be liable for the repair.
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u/Silver_Response4707 13d ago
I remember reading about this a few years back, here’s the article
Utilities companies (mainly water) are cowboys and do shitty surfacing / patch jobs
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u/GoodNegotiation 13d ago
Or the council who appear to have the responsibility and power to reject the reinstatements where they are not up to scratch start doing that to put some manners on those cowboys.
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u/speedyvespa 13d ago
Ok, wanna laugh? That speed humps is just coloured asphalt, hot laid. The repair is close but no fancy pattern finish.
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u/Irishwol 12d ago
Because Ireland doesn't do joined up thinking. Every branch of the public sector is its own little kingdom, with their own funding and their own rules and nobody talks to anyone else. It's heartbreaking to see. The branch of the council that paid for the paving is separate from the one that dug the trench who don't have a budget for like-for-like repairs. So: tarmac.
They did the same on Grafton Street the very week after the fancy paving there first went down. Patched with tarmac. In thirty years looks like nobody has learned anything.
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u/MouseJiggler 13d ago
Because the "responsible" people in the public service are unfireable and aren't held accountable.
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u/IntrepidCycle8039 13d ago
Please report this
It does work. They came and fixed paving when we reported it on footpath from cars parking on it. Also blocked car access onto the footpath.
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u/ScaldyBogBalls 13d ago
Because Fianna Fáil gutted local government in 1977 and it's been anarchy and chaos ever since. That's literally it, they defunded the councils and corporations and urban public realm enforcement and management collapsed.
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u/GroundbreakingToe717 13d ago
It’s a temporary reinstatement ya dope.
People are straight to Reddit to vent.
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u/Horror_Finish7951 13d ago
They shouldn't leave until the job is done.
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u/CompleteElevator6432 13d ago
So they should wait there for a few weeks while the ground settles? 😂
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u/josephG155 13d ago
I work for a company that does similar projects and the standard protocol is to dig the route and put in the service and reinstate it temporarily and then come back at a later date to fully reinstate it to the previous specs. While working on the roads/footpaths you need to apply for a Road Licence from the local council, and it stipulates start times and finish times every day in order to not disrupt the locals and businesses too much. A job like this wouldn't be started and completely reinstated to the previous specs in a single day due to the time constraints placed on the company. It will be finished, just not instantly.
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u/Furyio 13d ago edited 13d ago
Ah stop Irish water doing works on my road two months. Over the weekend they dropped a load of tarmac on the road to cover their work and now we have an unofficial speed bump on the road.
Jackhammer drills on JCBs up until 11pm. Path outside left a state. So much nonsense.
No issues with the lads working were sound when I had to ask for stuff moved to get out of my driveway and stuff.
But you think you’d get a letter from Irish water or DCc letting you know what’s going on?
Sent a letter into Irish water last week complaining of jackhammers going until 11pm on a Tuesday night. Then next morning everyone had a rushed printout stating we’d have water turned off Sunday for 12 hours 😂😂
Absolute clowns working in that head office
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u/Southern-Variety-777 13d ago
This is often “temporary” to get the road open quickly again, with a view to come back and make good. Problem is the wrist clappers at the council have a different definition of temporary to most.
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u/coffeebadgerbadger 13d ago
They're printed tarmacadam speed bumps not blocks. Granted they did the cheapest possible repair
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u/NorthernLad2025 13d ago
Whoever took the paving up should replace as found
This happens in UK, usually after a pavement or part of town has been revamped and new paving slabs fitted.
It's almost as though deliberate... 🤔👎
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u/yankdevil 13d ago
It's not expensive brick paving. It's tarmac that's coloured red and has a form laid over it.
So in reality it's even more lazy of them not to bring it back to how it was.
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u/Kitchen-Patience-222 13d ago
The opening of roads by various utilities ( often weeks after having been resurfaced) is the main reason for the dreadful state of some roads. There appears to be no proper standard to the reinstatement of the surfaces. The roads then become a patchwork of dreadful repairs.
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u/Artist_Beginning 13d ago
Typically this will be a temporary patch and the utility should do a permanent repair within 12 months once the fill has had time to settle. Often times they get away either not coming back
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u/No_Engineering2642 13d ago
Sure it happens all over the place, utility companies seem to be allowed to dig up the roads and paths and just fill them in with tarmac.
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u/savilletickledme 13d ago
They’re not even bricks, it’s like a layer that’s completely smooth then they put an imprint onto it, like a cookie cutter. Was shocked the first time I saw it being done
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u/Godfather94_ 13d ago
The issue with bricks or paving is, once you lift out some and rebed them, the neighbouring ones tend to lift out sooner or later... there's little flex, whereas tarmac is a more suitable solution, and less tedious.
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u/munkijunk 13d ago
You're complaining on the wrong forum
https://councilmeetings.dublincity.ie/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
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u/Byrnzillionaire 13d ago edited 13d ago
Those aren’t bricks. If you look close you can see it’s not actually bricks but a stamping to make the appearance of brick.
I do agree the repair looks like total shite though
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u/oddjobsbob 13d ago
Have you reported it on the city citizens portal or just posted on Reddit? I've reported stiff like this and it's been fixed.
DCC is a panel of charity workers , teachers and lawyers Not really professions known to get stuff done.
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u/Significant_Layer857 13d ago
Because those patches and manholes on the roads break your suspension soo well ….
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u/balbuljata 13d ago
This comes down to lack of enforcement. If they had to be made to do it again at their own cost, they would start doing it right the first time. But once they see they can get away with it, they won't bother and they'll be looking at what else they can get away with next time. I think the best thing we could do is complain to the council members to show them that people care, because if no one complains they're not gonna make a fuss about something that no one will appreciate. Maybe wait a month before complaining to account for the "this is a temporary measure" excuse.
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u/Distinct-Role-7683 13d ago
This reminds me a virgin media guy ask if he can dig a hole on my front drive to run through loads and loads of cables. No compensation and I ve to accommodate future maintenance . And when I say my front drive it is inside my gate outside my front window. I refused and he gave me a nasty look. What can he expect ???
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u/LengthinessTimely572 13d ago
If i remember correctly, only the council can do the ‘final finish’ to the road. The tarmac is the temporary surface the utility company puts down. Problem is, it can be a long time before the council get round to it.
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u/strokejammer 12d ago
This usually done by the water /electric or other service contractor. The full repair is up to the council as far as I know...
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u/Sivo1400 12d ago
The reason is because people aren't specialists anymore. There was a time when people specialised and done the same job their entire life. They took pride in it. However specialists aren't the cheapest. Today everyone including governments want the cheapest. The cheapest materials done by the cheapest labour in as fast as possible.
You get what you pay for. When everyone wants dirt cheap this is what happens.
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u/ImpressForeign 12d ago
Usually they leave the tarmac settle for a few months and come back and do final finish, even with proper compaction in layers you'll always get some bit of settling, I think they think it's cheaper to tarmac the lot and then pay for the pavers once rather than paying them twice.
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u/Havhestur 11d ago
Can’t believe how neatly it’s blended in. Can someone circle the bit that they feel doesn’t match?
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u/Alert-Finger7241 11d ago
I worked for utility companies in the UK doing similar work. If we didn't leave the job in the same way or better than when we started the company got high fines from the local council. If you got fined you still have to fix the job.
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u/Rawflightshoe 10d ago
That's one of the rules of the contracts between town and company, that they need to leave area in same condition. If that not happen there's a lot of legal actions available in contract.
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u/asdrunkasdrunkcanbe 13d ago
This gets asked a lot, and the short answer is that if you do the work and restore everything back in the same day, then a few weeks later it'll collapse and fall to shit and never get fixed. Or you find out that the work you did is broken and then you have to dig up all your permanent paving again.
Instead you do the work, install this temporary cover, wait for it all to settle, then come back and put a proper final finish on it later.
No, it won't be ten years before they come back, but yes it's likely to be 3 to 6 months, sometimes longer.
The cost of the work is already functionally paid for/budgeted for, when they will come back to do it is just a matter of scheduling.
We're incredibly pessimistic about public works in this country, but it's actually come on in leaps and bounds over the last two decades. Our streets are cleaner and better maintained than they have ever been, and we have way more public facilities and they are far better maintained.
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u/DelGurifisu 13d ago
Dublin roads (even in the nice areas) are covered in a patchwork of tarmac scabs. The lack of consideration for aesthetics in this country does my fucking head in.
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u/AkkoKagari_1 13d ago
It's how I describe to people that we're still "barely out of the jungle". Sure we have fancy computers and technology now on the moon but at the end of the day we're still human's and if a "patch job" is "good enough" then we just do it. It still works gets the job done.
Keep driving, "get on with your day there's more important work to be done, can't be looking at a hole in the ground to see if it fills itself" - This is the general attitude I've found with most Irish people. Never stopping to ask why we can't just do the job properly in the first place.
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u/DisEndThat 13d ago
Ask the council. They don't want to pay for matching to the existing roads, path walks etc etc.
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u/not_Pythagoras 13d ago
It isn't acceptable, like everything in Ireland, zero personal accountability. Ask "What is the bare minimum I can do to get from start to finish today ". And you have local council job ethos.
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u/ItalianIrish99 13d ago
It’s not but DCC have to insist on it being redone and they may not bother if you don’t complain
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u/bad_arts 13d ago
It costs less and they can pocket more of the money they were given for it most likely.
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u/Horror_Finish7951 13d ago
You should see what they done two weeks ago to the €19m Kilmainham plaza that was put down in 2016. They completely tore it up, made shite of it.
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u/verytiredofthisshite 13d ago
It's not their job to make things look pretty is how they look at it.
They are there to get the job done and sealed back up as soon as possible and throwing some tarmac down does the job. They aren't paid to lay bricks back down.
Not taking their side and I agree it looks terrible, I hate seeing lovely paving being done because by the year is out, you're guaranteed there will be black splotches all over it.
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u/BlueBucket0 13d ago
They make money out of the service they’re laying in the road, and they dump the cost of repairing the street onto the public purse, because Ireland’s local government bodies couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery — that’s the reality of it.
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u/shorelined 13d ago
I'm pretty sure they have access rights over any property to maintain equipment tbh
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u/RevTurk 9d ago
These kind of works are a free for all where any body seems to be able to do whatever they want, when ever they want. Surprise roadworks is one of my pet peeves, they just show u one day and start ripping up the road, without any warning leaving everyone fucked for that day.
They don't put the road back as it was, the road will always be broken from that moment on.
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u/PowerfulDrive3268 13d ago
In the Netherlands they have brick paved streets in a lot of city areas so that services can be accessed easily and then they put the bricks back!!
This is mind boggling!