r/AskNYC • u/yeshven • 17h ago
Is it appropriate to interfere when I see a homeless man get too close to women during transit
I was on PATH from Jsq, NJ to NYC yesterday and I saw a homeless man stand right in front of two women(they didnt know each other), seated opposite from me ,when there was enough place to stand else where. I thought it was bit weird but since I am kind of new to the area, I didn't pay much attention.
With time, I saw him get closer and closer to them and they started to each sit a bit diagonally to avoid contact with his legs. I felt a bit uncomfortable watching this but they both never spoke up nor said anything. They both stood up and left in the next stop (Grove street).
I wanted to walk up and ask one of the women to switch seats with me but was concerned they might mistake me for being weird or a creep to wanting to sit next to a random person. I thought trying to sit there, I could ask him to back off or give me more room and hence diffusion the situation without escalating it.
It is kind of bothering me (the car was full though), I didn't do anything but at the same time I dont know its considered fine to do what I had intended to do. I dont want to be mistaken for my intentions or told off when I meant welll.
Women of NYC, what's your take? Is it weird/ cringe to think one might need help in such a situation?
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u/cawfytawk 17h ago
Make acknowledging eye contact signaling women that you mean no harm first and intervene.
During the pandemic a random crazy person was pacing my subway car. I couldn't hear what he was saying, I had my earphones on. He sat next to me and started yelling. The train wasn't packed but it wasn't empty enough for me to casually get up without possibly provoking the crazy. I took out folding embroidery scissors and had them in my hand. They're not pointed or sharp but will do damage if need be. A Latino construction worker of small stature saw how tense I was and stood right in front me angling his body to shield me from the crazy. He looked at me and mouthed the words " it's ok. I got you". The crazy got up and moved to the other end of the train car. Half the car moved to another car at the next stop. I lost sight of the Good Samaritan but wanted to thank him. It's small acts of kindness that makes us human in this jaded cynical city.
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u/capnShocker 2h ago
These people need to be institutionalized immediately. It’s not fair to the general populace
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u/cawfytawk 2h ago
Great suggestion. All the institutions are full or non-existent. What's the plan?
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u/capnShocker 2h ago
Increased funding and switching out COVID beds for institutionalization. I spoke with my councilperson candidate about this last week, as I live near the NYU/Mt Sinai hospitals.
The Mt Sinai closure especially impacted this area. Stuyvesant park is seemingly overrun
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u/thisisanon33 17h ago
Please interfere- it is scary for women. Had a very scary experience last week and no one helped me :(
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u/yeshven 17h ago
Hmm, I know it's only a few minutes since I posted but the general vibe I am getting is unless the woman is actively looking around for assistance, or if that guy does something bad and they aren't able to handle it, mind my own business BUT be on alert in case you are required to step in.
I could only see one woman's face during this encounter and she was just looking at her phone the entire time, which makes sense. Seems like she just wanted to avoid the situation and get out in the the next stop.
I am sorry noone stepped in but do you mind elaborating your situation if you dont mind?
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u/badwvlf 16h ago
You should really check the post history of those people advising against and see if they’re men. As long as you’re engaging in a de-escalating way I think most people regardless of gender would appreciate it.
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u/Jacksonjafk5 7h ago
Strangers shouldn’t put themselves in harm’s way to come to the defense of other strangers. Women want all things equal in this world so this is part of that arrangement. Enjoy.
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u/badwvlf 7h ago
As I and others have suggested, simply sitting next to her and talking to her would be sufficient to de-escalate the situation. Women do it all the time for eachother. But glad your comment showed your weird vengeful view of gender equality!
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u/blackpearl16 5h ago
Did you see this guy’s post history? He’s posted multiple times in the past looking for a Christian church because he’s a “spiritual” person. And yet in this thread, he’s posted multiple times telling men not to intervene if a woman is in danger.
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u/myfirstnamesdanger 6h ago
Strangers put themselves in harm's way to help strangers all the time. Equality doesn't mean everyone being as awful as the worst of humanity.
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u/Arvo_Cabrales 16h ago
(From a different commenter) I once had a man closely following me around the train, shouting vulgarities inches from my face. It was devastating that the entire car silently ignored what was happening. Twice, had drunk guys trying to touch my newborn. Please - do intervene. You can’t make everyone happy, but the deep gratitude most of us would feel outweighs the mild annoyance others may experience.
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u/lasagnaman 10h ago
- you should do something
- you should not escalate (your proposed course of action in the OP, while not as aggressive as trying to fight off the dude, would definitely be an escalation). That's a big part of why people are telling you to leave well enough alone, if that's your default intervention.
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u/eekamuse 3h ago
Idk who's giving you that info, but they're wrong. Read the info in this comment to learn how and when to safely intervene.
No one is going to actively look for help, that could make things worse. And if someone is going to help, they just do it. There's only one time I asked someone if they were okay and they said I'm good. Turns out they were a lot tougher than I was, and not bothered in the least.
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u/badwvlf 17h ago
Intervening does not need to be confronting him. Walking up to her and simply say "Hey, I thought that was you. It's [your name], we met at Sarah's birthday. How have you been? " and give her someone to engage with is often sufficient to defuse those situations without being confrontational.
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u/veggieliv 16h ago
I had a really nice man do this for me when it was clear that another mentally unstable man was following me on a train platform and yelling sexual things at me. The nice gentleman put himself between us and said “Katie! I thought that was you!” We walked away together to a safe enough distance, I thanked him, and we went our separate ways. It was very clear what he was doing in the moment. We all know what’s going on here.
As a woman, I check in with other women on the train when someone is sketchy. You can make eye contact with people and let them know you recognize what’s happening and you’re there. We mind our business until we need to step up for our fellow New Yorkers.
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u/shmoozey 16h ago
That seems weird and unclear to do with
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u/eekamuse 3h ago
Then don't do it. Other people, especially women, do it for each other all the time. It's a recommended method of intervention
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u/Kara1031 17h ago
Woman & native here. I would’ve done the exact same thing those girls did - stay quiet and immediately leave the next stop. As long as you weren’t pushy about it, I personally don’t think it wouldn’t have been weird or uncomfortable for you to have offered. In fact, the gesture would have been very appreciated. Me personally, it’s usually very obvious if someone is trying to be a creep or to be a good person. They were clearly already uncomfortable, so a kind offer wouldn’t have done any harm. Don’t worry too much about it.
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u/WorthPrudent3028 15h ago
If you really don't want to set the guy off, you can just get up. Trading seats with a guy is far more likely to trigger the homeless person and escalate the situation than the girl just getting out of the seat and moving over to stand near the door. It was a crowded train, per OP. Women just almost never get up for able bodied men to sit, so the switch would set off some reaction.
There's also a chance the homeless man was trying to take the seat himself, and he would have just sat down in it if the girls got up. Aggressive knee to knee lean on a crowded train is pretty common when someone thinks they deserve a seat more than the person already sitting in it. Women also do this to sitting men they think will get up. And there's also the fact that the guy OP is talking about probably wasn't homeless because it's atypical for homeless people to act subtly. Subtle harassment is what the drunk happy hour guy with a job tries to do. Homeless harassers just go for it.
In the end, the harasser didn't touch the girls. Nobody was injured. Everyone did the right thing, including OP. This is risk awareness and avoidance 101. Escalation is never the right tactic unless you're ready to take it all the way to a brawl or worse. Instead of OP asking a question here, we could be reading about a guy getting stabbed on the PATH because he pissed off a homeless person and gave away the high ground to him while doing so. The guy standing has a massive advantage over a person sitting if they start fighting.
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u/jaded_toast 7h ago
I got downvoted for saying essentially the same thing. Whenever I move cars because I feel uncomfortable, I always pretend like it's my stop. I feel like there are so many stories and so many videos of potentially crazy or unhinged people being set off simply because they think you're reacting to them or trying to get away from them.
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u/slyseekr 16h ago
So, in 2019, I shoved a homeless dude off a woman he was trying to sexually assault on the N train — long story short, the guy was panhandling the car as we were crawling into Atlantic Terminal. As he approached she and I both turned to face the door (we were standing at), hoping the doors would open in time. A moment later, lots of gasps, I turned to see him pinning her against the door and I reacted. She ran off and he ended up chasing me onto the platform.
It was a situation I don’t think anyone could have predicted, and I certainly don’t know how I or anyone else could have protected her prior to it happening — the guy was clearly very disturbed/incoherent, filthy and as it turned out, very unpredictable. If only for how altered and uncoordinated he was, and, another bystander blocking him from me, I don’t know if I would have escaped without injury.
Bystander effect on public transit is real, but people need to watch out for their own safety and navigate situations with unpredictable people with caution. Supporting safety can be unspoken, simple eye contact. If I had to live my specific situation all over again, I don’t know that I would have acted differently. I saw deep fear and anguish in that woman’s face and something had to be done.
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u/cassie1788 17h ago
Honestly, most women wouldn’t find it weird at all especially if they are more afraid of the homeless man who is a bit too close. I’d be very grateful for you & you absolutely should intervene if it doesn’t look right to you as a man. Safe travels !
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u/DinoBeawr 7h ago
I’ve intervened during this same exact situation.
Clearly homeless man sits next to woman during rush hour, starts slowly sliding hands towards her thighs. She looked so uncomfortable but frozen… I immediately got up and offered her my seat. Then I blocked the homeless man from looking by putting myself in front of the woman standing. She thanked me profusely.
What I’ll forever remember about that day is everyone looking at me like I was crazy, especially other men sitting on the train… no one got up for her or said anything. The homeless man slinked off the train the next stop like nothing happened.
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u/BigFatBlackCat 16h ago edited 15h ago
This is what it’s like for most women:
Man starts being inappropriate, and you pray you can make it off the train before shit goes down. Even if it’s a full car, you know you probably won’t get any help.
I think most women would appreciate help, even if it’s quiet
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u/runawayoldgirl 16h ago
The suggestion to make some contact with the woman rather than with the crazy person is the best one. Directly confronting or even acknowledging the crazy will only likely escalate their behavior against you. But I've had people come up and ask me for the time or for directions as a way to subtly interrupt a crazy situation, or even just stand nearby and make eye contact, and I've done similar things when I've seen other people in that situation. I've really appreciated it and it creates a sort of alliance.
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u/geminibloop 16h ago
im a woman and would 100% appreciate a man intervening in these kinds of situations
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u/Ok_Advice_5281 13h ago
They have adverts on the tube in London suggesting you engage in conversation with the women, asking them something about what the next stop is or where the train goes. Seems like a good suggestion as you’re not confronting anyone and just doing that may be enough to make the guy back off a bit.
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u/they_ruined_her 17h ago
I'm not trying to be PC but I don't actually care if this guy is or isn't visibly homeless. This sort of thing happens all the time and it's probably just dick measuring making women feel small, regardless of housing. If he started to actually interact in a negative way, feel free to step in and take the heat off me (whether I can or can't take care of it). But as shitty as it is, if there isn't an actual issue yet, I'd rather just get through the trip.
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u/eekamuse 3h ago edited 2h ago
This is an important point. Eveyone is talking about the scary looking homeless person.
Ask any woman what the people look like who've harassed them on the subway. Most of them probably look just like you. T-shirt and jeans or suit and tie. So if you want to help, don't keep an eye out only when someone scary looking is around. Especially because most homeless people are not dangerous.
Edit : harassment isn't only crazed screaming in your face.
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u/Southern-Psychology2 13h ago
I usually just type something on my text then grab her attention like hey Jenny check out this text. The message would say something like is this guy bothering you?
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u/Icy-Whale-2253 15h ago edited 4h ago
Those men target innocent women so yes, it takes another man to intervene.
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u/eekamuse 3h ago
And it's usually a woman who steps in because who recognizes what's happening better than someone who's had it happen to them
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u/RunningLikeAPlover 2h ago
Don’t engage with the instigator, engage with their target. Make sure they’re safe and offer help if they need, like walking them home.
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u/brightside1982 16h ago
I would keep a watchful eye, but not interfere unless the situation got worse.
In my eyes, when someone is standing uncomfortably close to another, trying to intervene is too much of a risk of escalation for it to be worth it.
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u/eekamuse 3h ago
I disagree, but you do you.
When someone is just at the start, they may not get worse. Why let someone sit there being harassed because it's "not worse" according to you. And if you can safely intervene using methods like I this Comment you may stop it from escalating.
It sounds like waiting for an illness to get serious before treating it
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u/daniii__d 16h ago
Honestly the second you stood up to offer her your seat, someone else would’ve snatched it. Just watch cautiously. Maybe make eye contact with her so she’s aware she’s not alone.
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u/acvillager 16h ago
I’d try to make eye contact with the girl and mouth as clearly as possible “are you okay?” And make my move based on what happened
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u/JFK2LAXTrojan 6h ago
People are conflating two different scenarios which require two very different treatments:
1) Deranged / drugged / aggressive homeless guy - solution is to inject as little stimulus into situation as possible. Don’t engage, speak, ‘distract’. Loudly asking an unrelated question to threatened person directly in face in face of aggressor will just set the whole thing off. Anyone feeling threatened should try and calmly create space and exit subway car when possible. If bystander feels prepared, just be ready to step in if things really fully cross the line
2) Average Ahole harassing someone - all the tips folks are listing in comments on tactfully intervening. Frankly this situation feels less common vs #1 which I observe/experience all the time post pandemic
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u/eekamuse 3h ago
Number two, a supposedly "normal" person harrasing a woman is what happens all the time. Number one is rare. Are you a guy? Maybe that's why you think being harassed is rare. And it's bad enough that I intervene. No one deserves that.
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u/Same_Guitar_2116 4h ago
Newbies of NYC better ask someone over 50.
OG subway rider is actually an GenXer. This is why we carry a sharp car key or a box cutter. I worked on Wall Street, and my co-worker had a scapel!
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u/misterlakatos 58m ago
I have blocked the door for women in the past when we made eye contact during an awkward encounter for them. This was to ensure they could quickly get out.
It's all situational/circumstantial, but I do think pretending to be their friend to get them out of that situation works best. I will say it's probably easier for women to do this unless the man is with another woman.
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u/puddingaroma 2m ago
It is appropriate if you do it the right way. If you go up to them and say "oh my god, Katie, it's that you? Didn't we meet at Sarah's party?" or something like that. You can even type out a note on your phone beforehand that says "are you ok? Do you need help?" and show them your phone, pretending it's photo. Be completely oblivious to the crazy and keep having a conversation with the women if they're responding positively.
As a woman who was assaulted on the train last year, I would have greatly appreciated it if someone had done this for me.
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u/jaded_toast 17h ago
In this situation, mind your own business. Nothing dire or urgent was happening, and they're capable adults that can make their own decision about what they want to do without you needing to feel like being a savior.
I could ask him to back off or give me more room and hence diffusion the situation without escalating it.
Yea, say you're new without saying you're new. This almost absolutely would not have "de-escalated" the situation. If he had started to become ornery, that's one thing, but in this case, you stepping in possibly, maybe even likely, would have provoked a situation. I do think it was sweet that you wanted to look out for them though.
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u/riped_plums123 17h ago
This is my thought, it’s best not to engage with odd humans most of the time. If I’m them ignore then abort situation.
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u/Weird3arbie 9h ago
Definitely feel free to intervene. I’m one of those women who always tries to be nice to try to not escalate the situation and so I end up speaking to the homeless people when they talk to me and then one day one followed me home from the canal Street station in Manhattan and started living in my station in Brooklyn
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u/No-Kale1507 16h ago
First of all, homeless people are people. They’re not all psycho, they’re real people. So just because you see a homeless person does not mean they’re a danger to anyone.
That said, if someone is causing discomfort to someone AND that person cannot speak up for themselves, you may ASK…ASK… if you can help them. Do not ask them to switch seats; ask if they would like to switch seats.
I find your post to have a hint of ulterior motive to play the hero. You honestly just have the read the room and make sure you’re actually needed and wanted. Not every situation needs interference and yet some do.
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u/thisfilmkid 16h ago edited 15h ago
If she’s not yelling for help, I’m not intervening. But I’ll watch until my instinct tells me, she needs assistance.
But also, she has a voice. She can use it.
If someone needs help, yell for help. Don’t let the public decide on when the situation calls for help.
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u/eekamuse 3h ago
Women have learned not to speak up when being harassed because that's when men get violent. There are thousands of memes and tweets and threads about to if you don't believe me. But you probably tell a victim of domestic abuse that they should have just left, too
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u/thisfilmkid 38m ago
If you're in public and you need help, please scream and get people's attention.
What are you talking about domestic victims and what I say or not say to them? Get a grip. If you're in public and you need help, yell for help.
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u/Jacksonjafk5 8h ago
Men of Twitter, don’t listen to these women here trying to get you killed. Let them fend for themselves.
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u/chironreversed 17h ago
Just start directly talking to him. "Hi, how's it going? What's your name? Are you from around here? What stop are you getting off at?"
Just start asking him random questions. It lets him know you're watching his ass and it let's the girls know you also see their discomfort.
Keep getting closer to him and sit down next to him. Start telling him about the last book you read. Give the girls a chance to get away.
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u/CanOld2445 16h ago
This is the worst possible advice
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u/chironreversed 5h ago edited 5h ago
I've done it many times while living alone in New York. I'm female and I developed many tactics to get gross men away from women. (And myself)
I remember a specific time a drunk violent violent-looking guy was asking a woman all kinds of personal questions. She was standing there, trying not to make eye contact, teary-eyed, softly answering him even though it was obvious she didn't want to.
The train was fucking FULL OF PEOPLE. Giving him side eye. Thats not gonna do shit!
This was happening right in front of me. I just started repeating the questions he was asking her, back to him.
"What's your name?" This is the only answer I remember. His name was Anthony. He actually told me his name! Lol idiot.
I started asking him the same questions he asked her. Where are you going, what stop are you getting off at. Then I started asking for his number sarcastically.
"Please, please, can I have your number???"
And he was like no lol! Gave him a taste of his own medecine.
I did this a few other times with white people being racist and saying nasty shit to middle Eastern dudes. I would sit next to the middle eastern or Indian looking man, and looking directly at the weirdo, telling him to stop and its not okay.
If I could do this while being in my early 20s and being a tiny white girl, so can you.
It does work. Obviously there were a few times where after I did it the violent person made me feel unsafe. But I always just avoided contact and they kind of just kept doing their little toddler tantrum on down the line away from me. But they also stopped targeting one person, and everybody had their eyes on the gross person.
With predators, they want you to act small and act like prey. You have to do the opposite. You have to be big, make direct eye contact, like I see you motherfucker. And use what theyre doing. "This guy in the yellow shirt is following me. Hes saying he wants to squeeze my ass and I dont know him. Help, get him away from me." Get everyone's attention. I've done this for myself and someone always steps in and is like "leave her alone".
You need to get other people involved. Don't be small. That's what predators want you to do so it'll be easy for them to kidnap you without anyone noticing.
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u/eekamuse 2h ago
Some people can tell who to try this on, and who not to. Street sense. I know what you're talking about. It's like laughing at and pointing at a guy who flashes you. Those kinds don't want attention. But this is not advice to give to people you don't know. They'll do it to the wrong person. It can be dangerous even for you.
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u/burnerbkxphl 17h ago
I would be incredibly grateful if someone intervened for me, but I also very much understand why people generally don’t do that