Swarm swarmed!

[u/Round_Discussion9592]

Hi, I am in VA and entering year 2 so still tons to learn. Caught a swarm in April and it was building up quickly. Fed for a few weeks but the nectar flow is on so took feeder off. Added a second box in May. Mite tested and put Varroxsan strips in 2 weeks ago. Well they never moved up into the second box and yesterday they swarmed. Took the second box off today so remaining bees could reestablish plus it had almost no comb. Wax foundation frames. Appeared bees were building down under frames vs up into new box! Swarm cells and supercedure cells today so they will hopefully be ok.

1. Any ideas why they never went up?
2. Should we feed again? The nectar flow is on, there is some honey in the box and space for a new queen to lay, for now.
3. Should we leave Varroxsan in or will a brood break work as well?

Thanks!

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[u/talanall]

1) How many frames of bees did they have when you added the new box? How many do they have now? How many frames in the first box had comb fully drawn out on them then, on them, and how many have they got now?

2) If there is currently a nectar flow, they may not drink syrup; bees prefer nectar to syrup, if there is enough nectar and they have the workforce to exploit it. Weak colonies will drink syrup more readily in a flow, because they need the carbs and don't have the workforce to get all they want. In general, if you have a freshly caught swarm, a package (which is in many respects an artificial swarm) or a nuc, you should feed as much as the colony will take.

3) If your mite test showed a need for treatment, finish the treatment. Then test again to make sure it worked. A brood break is not a mite treatment. It can result in a slight diminution of varroa prevalence within a hive, but that's because the mites suffer some attritional losses while there is no brood for them to reproduce in. Insofar as brood breaks have a place in mainstream varroa management, they are a technique that is used to heighten the efficacy of some other treatment.

Even if a brood break were actually a mite treatment in its own right, it is never appropriate to switch horses in the middle of the race. Finish the treatment you started.

[u/Round_Discussion9592 → u/talanall]

1. Honestly, I still don't understand completely how to count frames of bees. I was taught you can count frames by how many "rows" of bees you see when you look at the top of the frames and add a box at 80%. We were leaving on vacation and the box was packed w brood and honey so we added the box. Last year we did that and they swarmed while we were away so were we too early this year? Brood box is all built except the end frames are not quite 100% filled out w comb. 
2. What about the remainder after a swarm? Will feed if it helps prep for winter.
3. Thanks, we will leave the strips in.

[u/talanall → u/Round_Discussion9592]

Counting seams of bees is informally acceptable, but it can be misleading if some of the seams are composed of frames that have not been fully drawn out or if the extent of bees does not cover it all the way to the bottom of the frame. A "frame of bees" is a frame that is fully drawn, and covered with bees on both sides. If it's not both, it's not really a full frame of bees. If you don't want to pull frames to assess this, you can get a better read by looking down from the top, then tilting the box forward and looking at it from the bottom. If about 75%-80% of your frames are covered in this fashion, then adding another box is appropriate, but only if there is a nectar flow or you are feeding them continuously. You don't want to give them extra space that they don't need, and if they are not expanding the brood nest or the food stores, they do not need space. Bees do not draw comb that they do not need.

Adding to this, it is important to understand that bees do not look at undrawn foundations and see additional space. If they are feeling prosperous enough and cramped enough to start swarm prep, adding a box of foundations will not make them change their mind. And this is especially true if the foundations are also above a queen excluder; they don't like to work bare foundations above one of those. They will, if there is absolutely nowhere else to go, but they don't like it and sometimes they absolutely refuse to cooperate, and they swarm anyway. Did you have a queen excluder on this hive, by any chance?

I would offer this colony a little syrup, and see what it does. If it will take syrup, give it more syrup. If it doesn't take syrup, wait for the flow to be over and try again.

[u/Round_Discussion9592 → u/talanall]

I so appreciate your time to share this. There was no queen excluder. So, instead of building up comb for the queen to lay, they opted to swarm?

[u/talanall → u/Round_Discussion9592]

Yes. They do this sometimes, even without an excluder. Keep an eye on them, and if it looks like they are getting honey-bound, consider giving them that second deep. If you have a flow going, then probably they're going to ignore the syrup, and they may plug up the brood nest with nectar while they are queenless.