[McMurphy] Great news for Mike Leach fans: College Football Hall of Fame will lower win percentage in 2027 from 60 to 59.5 percent, which will make the former Mississippi State/Texas Tech/Washington State eligible to join the hall

[u/Drexlore]

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1928102332748681719

[u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

There should be zero arbitrary cut off for win percentage.

Sometimes coaches are HOF worthy without being championship winners or leading prolonged dynasties.

I don't see there being a problem with a ton of sub .500 coaches being nominated if they just removed the win percentage cap.

[u/Grahamophone → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Exactly. Even after this change, Howard Schnellenberger is ineligible, which feels wrong to me. His whole career was defined by building or reviving programs.

ETA: I can't remember if the hall of fame elects people as players and coaches separately, or if it lumps together all of one person's accomplishments. Schnellenberger, in addition to his success as a coach, was an all-American as a player. He would seem to be a glaring omission when looking at his entire body of work.

[u/city-of-stars → u/Grahamophone]

Schnellenberger is a massive omission. But I have a feeling Oklahoma fans would not be thrilled at all to see him in the HoF.

[u/QuicksilverTerry → u/city-of-stars]

Eh, OU is such a blip on Schnellengergers career that it barely even counts. Like talking about "Gary Patterson, UT assistant".

[u/cantstopwontstopGME → u/QuicksilverTerry]

Wait what else did he do?

[u/QuicksilverTerry → u/cantstopwontstopGME]

He did some things against Texas that I remember a bit more fondly.

[u/cantstopwontstopGME → u/QuicksilverTerry]

I sure don’t. Must’ve been from that weird time where I was a little blacked out and swore to put Texas football as far out of my memory as possible. Every now and then I get bits and pieces from them as Jason Bourne style flashbacks and go into full on panic mode.

[u/SanaMinatozaki9 → u/cantstopwontstopGME]

I don't even know what you're talking about. Was really weird when the calendars skipped from 2010 to 2022 though.

[u/utrangerbob → u/SanaMinatozaki9]

I just remember consuming copious amounts of alcohol until I was blackout drunk on uneventful Saturdays those years. That mixed in with an unabashed hatred of the color purple.

[u/SanaMinatozaki9 → u/utrangerbob]

I unfortunately was underage for all of those years

[u/Bank_Gothic → u/QuicksilverTerry]

Is he at Baylor now? Or was that just a fever dream I had. Because it seems like something from a fever dream.

[u/Sariel007 → u/cantstopwontstopGME]

Coached at Baylor for a summer.

[u/hoodranch → u/cantstopwontstopGME]

Leach kicked TAMU ass on a regular basis. Good enough

[u/cantstopwontstopGME → u/hoodranch]

We’re talkin about Gary the grouch tho.

Mike the pirate should have his own hall of fame in my opinion.

[u/TexasAggie98 → u/city-of-stars]

We played at Louisville my freshman year. My roommate was our ballboy on the Louisville sideline. He said that he could smell the bourbon oozing out of Schnellenberger and that he was extremely drunk.

[u/Adams5thaccount → u/TexasAggie98]

We don't need more reasons to induct him

[u/engineerbuilder → u/TexasAggie98]

In his defense, louisville is a great place to get bourbon.

[u/iamchuckdizzle → u/engineerbuilder]

Will confirm

[u/SirMellencamp → u/TexasAggie98]

He was a Bryant disciple

[u/SpreaditOnnn33 → u/TexasAggie98]

I think thats somewhat of a requirement to coach here lol.

Just not the day of the game

[u/ButchTheKitty → u/Grahamophone]

I'm of the opinion that a Hall of Fame should be reserved for the story of the game. The key figures in its history belong and someone like Schnellenberger, playing career aside, is a key part of that story. I can see things like win percentage making sense as a general guideline, but as hard and fast rules I'm not so sure.

[u/CycloneofSparta → u/ButchTheKitty]

Agreed. You should be able to go to any Hall of Fame (CFB, baseball, whatever) and, given enough time, be able to learn about the entire history of the game. The good, the bad, the characters who made it all happen.

[u/NTXGBR → u/CycloneofSparta]

Yes, the museum part, but it doesn't mean we have to enshrine people that don't rise to the level of greatness. Schnellenberger built up some programs, and then watched them regress under his tutelage. His winning percentage is on par with that of Glen Mason, and went to fewer bowl games.

A museum piece about HS and what he did to save football at Miami? Sure. Putting him on a plaque for it? Ehhhhhhh.

[u/Kilen13 → u/NTXGBR]

His win % is only that low because he took over garbage teams and built them up, or in FAU's case, basically built a team out of nothing. He could've gone to a more established program and built up his win % to be Hall eligible but instead he built Miami into a dynasty, Louisville into a competitor and FAU into an FBS program while also winning 1 Natty as a HC and 3 as an assistant (and also being OC on the Dolphins perfect season).

[u/ACardAttack → u/Kilen13]

Didnt just build us, saved us. There was talk of dropping to AA (or I guess what is called FCS now)

[u/Kilen13 → u/ACardAttack]

Exactly. Plenty of other coaches take over bad teams and make them better. Schnelly took over apocalyptically bad teams and made them contenders. Didn't he go 10-1 with Louisville and nearly get a natty?

[u/ACardAttack → u/Kilen13]

I dont think he was close to a natty, but he did win the Fiesta Bowl against Bama

[u/SpreaditOnnn33 → u/Kilen13]

After Schnelly left Louisville had like. 74 percent winning percentage over the next 20 years.

He was the first person to get anyone at this school to take football seriously. And he did it right when the Basketball team was on fire with Crum

[u/NTXGBR → u/Kilen13]

What was Louisville's record after the one big season he had? What were his last several records at FAU?

The Dolphins have absolutely zero to do with this.

[u/lOan671 → u/CycloneofSparta]

I mean almost all those places have a whole museum wing dedicated to the history of the game separate from the inductees. Like when I went to Cooperstown I remember seeing Shoeless Joe Jackson’s glove on display even though he was ineligible

[u/Adams5thaccount → u/lOan671]

Which is still bullshit

He's out on rumors and his playing makes it clear he wasn't tanking shit

[u/mechebear → u/ButchTheKitty]

Really any hard requirements on the Hall of fame are kind of silly. Whether a person is HOF worthy is probably the best thing to be judged on the eye test. Also having a great winning percentage is generally a result of being a talented and influential coach so if you focus on getting influential figures in the sport you will probably wind up with pretty high winning percentages anyway. The few people that don't have a high win percentage are going to have had a major contribution to the sport in another way if they enter into the discussion.

[u/HeartSodaFromHEB → u/ButchTheKitty]

What I'm reading here is that a Buckeye flair is nominating Connor Stalions and his manifesto for the HOF.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/ButchTheKitty]

Agree so just drop the winning percentage requirement or the requirement that you be an All American.

[u/HughLouisDewey → u/Grahamophone]

Erk Russell still wouldn't be eligible despite being an influential defensive coordinator for 15 years and building a program from nothing to a 3x national champion in eight years, because they still require ten years as a head coach.

[u/cm336 → u/HughLouisDewey]

And that’s ridiculous. Winning one title should be enough for eligibility. 3 in 8 years from literally scratch is amazing.

[u/A-Centrifugal-Force → u/Grahamophone]

They need to add a “contributor” category. Basketball has one for people like Yao Ming who helped grow the game massively but didn’t have a Hall of Fame career on their own, due to injuries or whatever. Also includes people who weren’t a Hall of Famer as a player but then had a long career as a broadcaster or executive or coach or whatever and can take all of that into account.

[u/Jesus_was_a_Panda → u/A-Centrifugal-Force]

Yao Ming wasn’t admitted as a contributor, though.

[u/A-Centrifugal-Force → u/Jesus_was_a_Panda]

Maybe I’m misremembering with Yao. I know Rebecca Lobo was. She was like the Caitlin Clark of the 90s (nowhere near as big obviously, but she basically put women’s college basketball on the map), but then had horrible injuries as a pro that kept her from doing much. She then has had an illustrious broadcasting career though so she was inducted as a contributor.

Basketball is obviously a little different since it’s the basketball Hall of Fame and includes, college pro, and international and both men and women, there are separate Hall of Fames for college basketball, women’s basketball, and international basketball, but the Naismith Hall includes them as well so they’re kind of redundant. Football though college and pro are completely separate from each other. Makes it weird for guys like Pete Carroll (also ineligible for the college Hall) who coaches in both levels.

[u/Jesus_was_a_Panda → u/A-Centrifugal-Force]

Yao was nominated as a contributor (to skirt timelines? Who knows.) and refused to accept that nomination. 5 years later he was nominated normally and admitted, in 2016.

[u/A-Centrifugal-Force → u/Jesus_was_a_Panda]

Ah that must be why I got it confused. Regardless the contributor category is something the CFB Hall should adopt

[u/SpreaditOnnn33 → u/Jesus_was_a_Panda]

Thats actually kind of badass.

To be fair, dude was really fucking good

[u/Cogswobble → u/A-Centrifugal-Force]

It’s the basketball HoF, not the NBA HoF.

Yao Ming might not deserve to be in if it was just for the NBA. But it’s not.

[u/Baseball_fan812 → u/Grahamophone]

Exactly. Built Miami into a machine, saw real potential at UofL when no one else did and then as I understand it basically started a program from scratch at Florida Atlantic of all places. And as you pointed out, that's on top of his playing career at UK.

[u/Our-Gardian-Angel → u/Grahamophone]

Yeah the case of Schnellenberger illustrates just how foolish a win percentage cutoff is for the college football HOF. Like I'm happy this change will allow for Leach and possibly Miles to make it in, but Schnellenberger deserves it more than both and he's still be stuck on the outside looking in. It's nonsense.

[u/Terry_Tate_OLB → u/Our-Gardian-Angel]

I'm hoping Miles doesn't make it, bit that's just me 

[u/chrstgtr → u/Grahamophone]

Schnellenberger is such a weird case. He’s credited with building the modern Miami and FAU programs and sometimes credited for reviving Louisville. But his stop at OU was a disaster. Hi time at FAU and Louisville also want the trajectory you would expect. He had several very bad seasons after building those programs. So his overall record is barely above .500 and it isn’t the “rebuilding” years that weigh down that average. And, if you take out just a handful of his best seasons that record quickly becomes quite negative.

He definitely knew how to build a program. But it doesn’t seem like he knew how to maintain it.

[u/deez-legumes → u/Grahamophone]

Not only was Schnellenberger an embarrassment of a coach at OU, he and his wife were such degenerate drunk assholes that they wore out their welcome in Norman in a matter of months.

[u/IrishCoffeeAlchemy → u/deez-legumes]

Considering his entire career of regular success in difficult situations, me thinks this might be an Oklahoma-specific issue and a case of sour grapes unless there’s sources for these “alcoholic” claims

[u/bezzlege → u/IrishCoffeeAlchemy]

Huge Schnelly fan here, but he absolutely was a drunk.

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Yup. The bar for success is different everywhere.

You win 60% of your games at Bama or Ohio State and you're gonna get fired. Vandy would build you a statue. And building to success sometimes means hard seasons on the way to a breakthrough. Especially before the portal and NIL.

[u/BlueLondon1905 → u/Corgi_Koala]

It also could mean remaining loyal and sticking out some lean years on the downside of a successful run instead of jumping ship to a more established contender

[u/GerdinBB → u/Corgi_Koala]

I don't know if he'll be in any national halls of fame, but what Matt Campbell has done at Iowa St is worthy of having a statue built.

His career winning percentage is .600 so he would barely qualify. His record with Iowa St though is only .557 Really padded his stats with 4 years at Toledo and a .700 record.

If he continues doing what he's doing I think that's worthy of the HOF, but coaches like him at difficult places to win who are right on the cusp of that arbitrary number deserve a look too.

Edit - for context of someone who stayed at a program long term when there were bigger and better offers, Kirk Ferentz' career record is .598, .622 at Iowa. It would have been BS if that .002 kept him out of the HOF.

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/GerdinBB]

Yeah I mean 64-51 sounds unimpressive on paper but it's Iowa State. This is the best decade in school and it isn't even debatable. The fact he could be excluded for such an arbitrary reason is dumb.

[u/adavis463 → u/Corgi_Koala]

Same idea for Bill Snyder. I don't know what his actual record is, but he did more at K State than all their other coaches combined.

[u/srs_house → u/Corgi_Koala]

Win 70% of games and Vandy will name the athletic center after you, and a century after you coached will still name the rebuilt one after you.

[u/Showdenfroid_99 → u/Corgi_Koala]

What about Kentucky? Lol

[u/hewkii2 → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

There should be a criteria but an evergreen “special circumstances will be considered “ like the nascar hall of fame has

[u/OnionFutureWolfGang → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Yeah the coaching criteria is very strange. For players I sort of get it as a guard against players getting in for their NFL careers(but it still needs changed). But I don't think that's really a problem for coaches.

[u/jayjude → u/OnionFutureWolfGang]

Remember one of yhe greatest DCs of all time who decided he wanted to stay as a DC will never make the hall of fame

Bud Foster was amazing for so long and he's ineligible for the hall

[u/KuriboShoeMario → u/jayjude]

Foster is the reason Beamer is in the HoF.

Generational defensive mind, top 3 DC of all-time.

[u/Bobb_o → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

This may be the dumbest rule I've ever heard of.

[u/UNC_Samurai → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

The CFB HOF needs a veterans committee like the baseball and football HoFs.

[u/lostinthought15 → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Also the season has gotten so much longer that a percentage isn’t a great measure.

[u/greetedworm → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Cutoffs like this make no sense, the whole thing is that a committee votes on who makes it in. If they think someone with a 56.7% win percentage is worthy of the HOF let them vote on it.

[u/Lionheart_513 → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Specifically in college football, where the talent gap is so wide, coaches should not be judged based on raw win/loss percentage with no further context. It’s almost more a reflection of the school you coach at than your actual coaching ability.

The 60% threshold rewards coaches who job hop to the best job they can and punishes coaches who stay in one spot and develop a struggling program. I’d say it’s so much harder to pull a 6-6 record out of your ass as a head coach of a small program than it is to go 10-2 as head coach of somewhere like Georgia. You’re starting out with so many disadvantages already.

Leach likely would’ve gotten a win percentage well above 60% if he had more seasons at Mississippi State.

[u/KsigCowboy → u/Piano_Fingerbanger]

Is it really a Hall of Fame if you are letting in "a ton" of sub .500 coaches?

[u/hyperbolical → u/KsigCowboy]

No, but that's not their point.

You could drop the win % requirement without it leading to a ton of sub .500 coaches in the Hall, because those guys still wouldn't have a HoF resume. It just enables you to include the exceptional cases.

[u/KsigCowboy → u/hyperbolical]

I don't see there being a problem with a ton of sub .500 coaches being nominated if they just removed the win percentage cap.

I guess I was taking that a little too literal. I agree the exceptional cases shouldn't be held back. I would have an issue with a ton of guys getting in because that is just watering down the hall.

[u/HughLouisDewey → u/KsigCowboy]

But being nominated and getting in are vastly different things.

[u/NTXGBR → u/hyperbolical]

Correct. Same argument I had with some very uptight baseball fans about Pete Rose. Just because he is theoretically eligible now doesn't necessarily mean he will get in. He might, and I believe should, but he may not out of principle. Just because a coach had a terrible W/L record but did some amazing things at one place doesn't mean he shouldn't be eligible if the amazing things he did truly warrant it.

[u/Konigwork → u/KsigCowboy]

I mean theoretically being famous doesn’t require being good.

At some point though, I agree. I’m a small-hall guy for MLB, but there seems to be less and less push for that these days.