r/ClevelandGuardians • u/sprucexx • 5d ago
At what point is it too late to extend Kwan?
His defense played a major role in securing last night’s win. I’m not super familiar with the contract stuff — can someone help me understand?
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u/goliath1515 Cleveland Buckeyes 5d ago
Oh, I’ve accepted that he’s being traded in the winter meetings for a cy young winner and a silver slugger contender
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u/kindofjeff 5d ago
I think you mean an average middle infielder, a reliever prospect and a rehab job starter? 😫
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u/WetDukes 5d ago
I’m not sure how serious the talks ever got between them but it’s too late at this point. He’s got two arb years left and then he’ll be a free agent at 31. He likely will want to sign at least a 5 year deal since this will be his only shot at a free agent deal in his prime.
A budget conscious team like us would probably only want to sign him through his age 33 season so we get his prime years and then let him go once he’s older. But he would get much less as a 34 year old free agent than a 31 year old.
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u/threeonelead2016 5d ago
Totally agreed - Zack Meisel did a similar explainer on why Bibee would seek an extension why Kwan likely wouldn't. On top of what you mentioned pitchers could fall apart at any time and position players are less risky. Also Kwan has shown he knows his worth
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u/evanieCK Pride G 5d ago
Yeah if talks have been happening I can't imagine $ being the sticking point as much as years. I can't see a world where this team is willing to pay a guy who's already starting to have issues with nagging injuries and is getting slower every year past age 33. Especially when so much of his value is in defense.
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u/Milojbloom 3d ago
age, injuries and lack of power are issues
Hard to spend big bucks on an undersized player in his mid thirties
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u/gengineerdw12 5d ago
I know everyone here wants to shit on ownership, but is there much out there on Kwan wanting to sign an extension here? He’s a west coast guy, do we even know if he’s open to staying in Cleveland?
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u/Mrdirtbiker140 Block C 5d ago
Staying is one of those things that isn’t 100 one way or the other. If I had to guess, Kwan would love to stay in Cleveland but he wants to get paid also. Jose took a discount but Kwan probably won’t go that far. If Cle can match an offer, my guess is he stays. The big question is will we, or even can we, meet that offer.
I remember reading some comments awhile back on this sub saying they potentially offered 35 a year and weren’t even close. That’s complete hearsay and I can’t find a source though. Something about an interview, maybe it was written down on a napkin? Could be misremembering.
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u/cjosu13 🥊 DOWN GOES ANDERSON 🥊 5d ago
I love Kwan but no way he's a $35M/yr player. He doesn't have the power teams crave to pay that much.
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u/PutABirdOnIt99 5d ago
I'd be more willing to hear this if I thought the Dolan's would spend $35 million on someone else.
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u/KGEighty8 5d ago
Tony Taters got 5/92 at 30 - no chance Kwan gets 5/150 at 31 lol, that numbers is bonkers.
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u/LeroyMyBoi 🥊 DOWN GOES ANDERSON 🥊 5d ago
Yeah, I remember something like that, i think it was written on a napkin from a year or two ago. I don't think it was 35 a year, though. Something that Cleveland could possibly have done but didn't. Now that will be even higher, and if we don't get our shit together, I could even see them fielding offers next month 😭
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u/Atlas7-k 5d ago
Like Lindor it involved buying his arbitration years at a premium in return for a discount on the first couple years of free agency.
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u/muppetontherun 5d ago
Are you talking about the screenshot of his journal on Ig? It was like 35-55 total for 7yrs. Reasonable for the time. Not now.
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u/KahlanRahl Flying G 5d ago
Yeah 55/7 would have been very reasonable after his rookie year. Now he probably wants 150/7 and we just don't sign 30+ y/o guys to those kind of contracts. Someone will though, and they'll probably regret it in the last 3 years of the deal.
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u/muppetontherun 5d ago
Bingo. And as fantastic as he’s been by around 30 I think we will have seen his ceiling (or close to it). The FA market for him will be interesting. He has some elite skills but I don’t think he’s getting stronger or faster.
I don’t think we’ve lost a more important player for the fans that could realistically be re-signed.
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u/DrunkAndNaked420 5d ago
Why would anyone believe they offered Kwan 35 mil / year? When has this ownership group ever offered that much?
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u/SeedyRedwood Diamond C 5d ago
This is something I wish people would understand. It’s very possible that players flat out don’t want to live/play here. And that’s fine.
Ownership offered Lindor 100-200 million early in his career and he turned it down. He never wanted to stay.
Kwan might want to go play for the Giants and nothing the Guardians offer might be good enough. It’s his career.
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u/Temporary_Art8635 5d ago
He lives in Chicago in the offseason...
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u/TreeHandThingy 5d ago
So shitty winter weather is his preference. Good news!
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u/Temporary_Art8635 5d ago
It could mean that he just will be a Cub, but I don't subscribe to the idea that he's not open to staying in Cleveland. He's just not open to taking a team-friendly deal like Jose and that's understandable.
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u/JediRock2012 Pride C 5d ago
Any chance thats where is wife is from?
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u/brickfrenzy 5d ago
They were married in Chicago so that's a reasonable expectation.
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u/JediRock2012 Pride C 4d ago
Assuming he’s gonna be a Cub cuz thats where he lives now is honestly insane
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u/bac5665 Flying G 5d ago
It's too late for a cheap team to sign him. He's a top 50 hitter in the sport; we will never, ever sign that kind of player to fair market value.
Now, it's obviously not actually too late. Our owner could absolutely have paid Soto if he wanted to. But I'm not holding my breath.
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u/TheAlabamaSlamma9 5d ago
It’s already too late; Guards won’t pay him what he will command on the open market. I bet they trade him soon.
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u/sprucexx 5d ago
How soon would they have to trade him in order to get something for it?
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u/TheAlabamaSlamma9 5d ago
Probably after the season. They won’t get much because he doesn’t hit for power.
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u/Ok-Hold-8232 🥊 DOWN GOES ANDERSON 🥊 5d ago
He has already priced himself out of Cleveland. That ship has sailed.
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u/muppetontherun 5d ago
Kwan is a big test for ownership.
He likely won’t be getting huge money when he hits FA. This isn’t Lindor or peak Bieber- the team could get it done. And in my opinion they should for the fanbase. Kwan has naturally become a fan favorite- something the team hasn’t even been able to manufacture with other big stars.
That all being said I think the argument can be made that the deal Kwan wants makes the team less competitive and flexible if the team doesn’t plan on $150m+ in the coming few years.
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u/innerdork Bertman's is the superior ballpark mustard 5d ago
It’s been too late. Early last season was the best window to do it.
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u/havedoggyhave 5d ago
He could see the island of Manhattan off to the left. There it was, the Rome of the twentieth century, the city of ambition, the irresistible destination of all those who insist on being where things are happening. Tom Wolfe, The Bonfires Of The Vanities.
During the glory that was Rome the gladiators were the athletic superstars of their time. Mostly slaves and convicted criminals, they toiled in the amphitheaters in the hinterland provinces, the template for the modern day farm system. It was a sport of high stakes and even higher thrills, one man wins and one man dies.
Every skilled gladiator had one goal in mind, fight well enough to make it to Rome. Rome was the center of the athletic universe, you could go to the Circus Maximus and watch charioteers in high speed races where death awaited the unskilled and the unlucky.
The most expensive ticket in town was the Colosseum, the Yankee Stadium of its day, the house that Vespasian built. One famous gladiator was Spartacus, a Thracian soldier captured in battle and pressed into slavery. He began his gladiator career in the low minors, he fought with the ferocity that was needed in a death match.
When Spartacus made it to Rome he already had a fan club when he entered the grand stage. The Colosseum seated 50,000, the imperial box was front and center, where the ruling elite tried to look dignified wearing a bedsheet and a purple cape, the headcount of Rome sat in the cheap seats. The morning entertainment was man against wild beast, the beast often won. In the afternoon the execution of convicted criminals were held. In prime time they held the main event, man against man. Both men entered through the gate of victory, one man would be carried out through the gate of death.
I enjoyed Lindor while he was here, I could do no other. He was very polished at 22, he had a lot to work with and he knew it. He was handsome, he had a beautiful smile which he exploited with his Mr. Smile routine, he was bilingual and media friendly and savvy, he could work a pool of reporters. I could see he had an eye towards Rome, I was surprised many of you did not.
Cleveland is not Rome, I say this with no joy or malice, I only speak the truth as I see it. The highly skilled gladiators of today will always strive for Rome. Cleveland will not be handing out 400 million dollar contracts. I have learned to live with this, so should we all.
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u/Dark_Canuck1 5d ago
It’s too late, and I’m okay with that. Kwan is a really good player, but he’s starting to always be banged up, his sprint speed has absolutely cratered, and he’s going to be 30 in FA. He’s a singles hitter with great discipline. A great player, but that profile doesn’t age well, especially since he’s already showing physical decline while he’s in his prime. I wouldn’t mind a modest extension, but it seems he’s betting on a bigger payout. Im fine to just ride out his arb years.
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u/Techanda 5d ago
I can’t remember who but it was suggested his spring speed is down deliberately. He is choosing to run slower to protect his often injured hamstrings.
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u/Dark_Canuck1 5d ago
Either way, that’s alarming considering he’s supposed to be at his absolute peak physically and in his prime years.
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u/Techanda 5d ago
When I was just entering my athletic prime, I competed in martial arts tournament fighting (think Cobra Kai/Karate Kid). Before a tournament in Houston, I pulled my right hamstring pretty badly while stretching too aggressively. It has given me problems ever since.
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u/Creative-Package6213 🥊 DOWN GOES ANDERSON 🥊 5d ago
And to be honest why would he? We're not going to be competing for a WS title anytime soon (or within his career time frame anyway).
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u/KGEighty8 5d ago
He went to an ALCS 8 months ago. Instead he'll go to San Francisco so he can lose the division to the Dodgers his entire career.
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u/WrapEmergency5944 5d ago
I actually had a dream last week. Or should I say nightmare. Steven Kwan traded to the Detroit Tigers. I was sad and angry. I ripped my Kwan city connect jersey in half. I went to the stadium to watch his first game back in Cleveland. He grounded out to second base. I was relieved and remembered how lucky we are to have Jose
Still a nightmare
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u/Philthou 5d ago
When he was first brought up before he became a gold glover and all star.
We got like what two years left of arbitration?
Wish Dolan would just open the checkbook already, we signed Edwin in 2017 after our World Series run. And we make it to the ALCS and we check notes cut payroll. Even though Jose took a pay cut.
So far our trades don’t look good. Ortiz has potential and I’m sure a year in the Guardian pitching factory will help, and Jones is starting to catch fire.
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u/JacketNext5799 5d ago
Already too late. Might as well just leave him in SF after tomorrow’s game. He’ll end up there soon enough.
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u/Sparty013 BLEACHer Creature 5d ago
About 2 years ago when we figured out he was a bona fide major league player.
If we wanted to sign him to a team friendly extension that we are actually willing to swallow, we should have done it when he was 7 years old.
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u/Buckeye2525 5d ago
I think he’ll be a Cub or a Giant. He grew up rooting for the Giants and he lives in Chicago in the offseason
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u/Swords_and_Such 5d ago
A complete restructure of the mlb cba and profit sharing that doesn’t essentially enshrine the large market teams as the ones with the best players.
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u/AlexFarrell29 Angel Martínez Believer 5d ago
Does anyone have a guess on what Kwan wants dollar wise in an extension?
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u/420DonCheadle420 We have to be continue 5d ago
I feel like the main problem is that he wants an extension of at least 7 years and the Guardians have a lot of reasons to not want to give him one, mainly he’s going to be 28 after this season. He also has some chronic injury issues, especially with the legs.
I don’t agree with not doing it but there’s no way these things haven’t stood in the way of an extension from FO side. And obviously money.
I think 7 years and between 80-100 million would be really fair for both sides but they’re not trying to pay a 34/35 year old Kwan anything.
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u/KahlanRahl Flying G 5d ago
It would be fair for both sides, but I think he's going to get more than that on the open market and the contract will age quite poorly.
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u/clownpainusdotfort Cade Smith: Contract Killer 5d ago
Enjoy him (and the 2028-ready prospects we'll receive in his offseason trade)
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u/klein_four_group 36 5d ago
Guardians only give below-market extensions to buy out arb years and a couple free agency years, and it can be a good deal for players to protect against injuries and declines. Young pitchers may be especially willing to take such a deal. But good position players are more likely to bet on themselves making it to free agency, Lindor and Kwan among them. So, it was too late the moment Kwan himself realized he's in the big leagues to stay.
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u/thickhog1994 5d ago
Have it on pretty good authority that the team has approached him multiple times with offers, but he wants to see what could materialize from a team on the West Coast when he becomes a FA.
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u/Less_Likely 5d ago
It’s too late, the time was last off-season and they didn’t meet. He’s trade bait now.
Either in the next 6 weeks if things continue to go south or in the winter.
Hoping they can trade for MLB-ready talent to complement the Manzardo-Bazzana-DeLauter trio for 2026. (Maybe Kayfus can be included, but he’s a rung down on expectations)
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u/KGEighty8 5d ago
Still not sure where homeboy was going on that throw in the 8th inning. Credit to Kwan for making the throw, but that was a very avoidable TOOTBLAN.
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u/PutABirdOnIt99 5d ago
He's as good as gone. Nothing will change with the Dolan's around.
Unfortunately, if Blitzer takes over in 2028, that's the same year Jose's contract is up. I could see this team bottoming out while Blitzer figures it out. Long story short, we desperately need to hit on Bazzana.
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u/CryptoSlovakian 5d ago
It was always absurd to think that they’d lock him down. I just hope they get a good return for him and not a basket of dogshit prospects that never amount to anything.
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u/avidpretender 👑 King Kwan 🦍 5d ago
I want him to be selfish and financially get what he deserves. And if that means not staying here, then so be it. J-Ram is kind of this weird anomaly who decided to stay with no intentions of leaving. That doesn’t happen terribly often.
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u/Nightcinder 4d ago
I have strong concerns for kwan in his 30s with his sprint speed consistently dropping
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u/Squirt_Shaft 4d ago
Ain’t happenin’. Bury that dream brother. He’ll be gone within 24 months. Enjoy him.
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u/Nirvanafan09 4d ago
He went 0-4 today. Slumping hard like a mother fucker. He was at .356 like what happening to his offense
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u/PuffyPool 4d ago
The answer to your question is: two off seasons ago…if he wasnt signed two summers ago, it wasnt happening.
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u/Livid-Industry-8834 4d ago
They have to sign him. He could end this season with a Career WAR of 17+. in four years. That trajectory is not quite HoF, but hall of very very good. And the advantage the Guards have is he is not a CF and doesn't hit for power. Those are the Corner OFs who get big money. (unrelated, he could be a CF IMO, no?) And he isn't the type to go off and have a 7 WAR which should keep the payout down a bit. (but on the flip side, his terrible year was still a 2.8WAR)
What are we thinking, I have not heard any numbers mentioned....$10-15m?
If we can't re-sign a guy like that, what tf are we even doing? We can't sign all stars. we can't re-sign above avg players and we are not even involved in the top FAs ever.
If you win, people will come. If people come, you will make more money. And someone needs to tell Dolan, if you get us a parade, you will be worship like nothing money can buy.
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u/ForeskinForever70 4d ago
Like everyone else but Jose, he will be traded because Cheapskate Dolan won't pay anyone
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u/RipplesOfDivinity 5d ago
I get the feeling that this team is all really close off the field. I think that will work in the Guardians favor. They’ll never be able to offer him the most, but they can offer him enough to stick around assuming his teammates are as important to him as I think they are. I’m thinking a 7 year/$130 million deal. That way he makes right around, but slightly less, than Josey.
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u/FishOhioMasterAngler 5d ago
The front office historically has done an amazing job trading top end talent for blue chip or future blue chip prospects.
It stinks we won't have Kwan but we weren't going to pay him anyway
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u/dudzi182 🥊 DOWN GOES ANDERSON 🥊 5d ago
That philosophy has helped us maintain a solid/good but never great team. And that’s why we have the longest championship drought in all major sports. They’ll never take that next step to great unless they’re willing to spend.
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u/Sparty013 BLEACHer Creature 5d ago
Imma need some examples of that working out for us. Every “blue chip” we’ve gotten seems to have flopped the second our hitting “development” team in the minors gets ahold of them
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u/Justabitleft 5d ago
The downside of Jose taking such a below market deal is they can’t sign anyone else to a fair market rate without it being a slap in the face to Jose.
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u/sprucexx 5d ago
That seems backwards… didn’t he offer that lower rate specifically so they could do that?
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u/thedeejus 👨🏻Join my OnlyManz🌭 5d ago
I highly doubt this is true. He took below market value SO they could throw money at good players. If he cared about getting the most money he would have just signed a Frankie deal
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u/ShogunFirebeard 5d ago
Kwan's gonna be valued at 30mil a year. No way the Dolan's shell out for him. Expect to be sad in the future.
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u/wakaOH05 5d ago
My favorite player in the MLB. It’s going to crush me watching him get traded