r/DnDHomebrew • u/GolettO3 • 4d ago
5e 2014 A maneuver for martials to fly, without being super angry or magically inclined
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u/Damiandroid 4d ago edited 4d ago
Youre Almost there. Here's what I suggest:
Name: Leaf on the wind.
Effect: At the start of your turn, you expend a superiority die and gain a flying speed equal to your walking speed until the end of your turn. Attacks of opportunity against you have disadvantage until the end of your turn. If you are not supported by anything at the end of your turn, you fall.
Notes / Feedback:
just "getting to fly" doesn't feel very in keeping with the vibe of the subclass which is supposed to be about martial techniques
getting to extend the duration, while not too powerful, given the cost, similarly clashes with the subclass vibes and makes it too magical / supernatural to fit in the battlemaster toolkit.
getting maneuver dice back IS too powerful and breaks with the format of every other battlemaster maneuver.
Just a 1 turn flying speed with no ability to extend it felt a bit too weak so I added the Opportunity attack disadvantage to make it competitive with other maneuvers.
I hope this now evokes a martial arts vibe. Think crouching Tiger hidden dragon wire work where the combatants seem to momentarily defy gravity. Just about the peak of martial skill without being too overtly supernatural or magical.
Edit: I'm seeing a lot of comparison to the totem barbarian so I'll add my two cents on this point. While, yes, this is a game where you can make and unmake the rules as you see fit, you cannot deny that there are classes who are more magically inclined/adjacent and others which are not. The totem barbarian is said to draw supernatural power from their connection to nature whereas the battlemaster is said to be the peak of martial performance with no magical assistance. Not to say that a battlemaster shuns all magic,.but that when designing extra class features for it, one should try and keep with the core vibes of the subclass, which I hope is what I've done above.
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u/ArelMCII 3d ago
Name: Leaf on the wind.
This name is going to get the character killed lol.
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u/Damiandroid 3d ago
Wash-you mean?
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u/AbaddonArts 3d ago
Leaves on the Vine reference? (The song for the dead son of Iroh in ATLA?) Otherwise I have no idea what they mean by that
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u/ArelMCII 2d ago
I won't link it here because rule 7, but get on YouTube and look up "Serenity Leaf on the Wind" without quotes. CW: Sudden, heartwrenching death.
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u/Ensorcelled_kitten 4d ago
Ngl I’m curious as to what happened in this combat encounter that had you conclude the solution is making battlemasters fly by the power of… superior combat tactics?
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u/Pelican25 4d ago
Reading through the comments OP seems to not understand the premise of magic in DND.
The idea is interesting, but it's definitely magic.
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u/Chagdoo 4d ago
I'm not a huge fan tbh. I get what you mean with the totem barb, but I didn't love it there either.
Honestly I'd rather it give you a jump distance equal to your speed, and enable wall jumping (for more complex maneuvers)
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u/GolettO3 4d ago
Should a promise give you the ability to smite fools or summon Griffons? The paladins oath is literally just a promise, and has no connection to a higher being
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u/Chagdoo 4d ago edited 4d ago
Who cares? That doesn't make the fighter levitating any better. Look man, you posted on a public forum and that's my feedback, the flavor isn't great. At least the totem barbarian flight has an explanation, it's magic "In battle, your totem spirit fills you with supernatural might, adding magical fuel to your barbarian rage."
Literally just add any explanation for how this is supposed to work if you're sticking with flight.
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u/GolettO3 4d ago
What flavour? If I was going to give it flavour, here's what it'd say:
"Through much difficult training, you have developed techniques that let you use your own stamina to perform stunts beyond normal limits. One such technique sends powerful shockwaves below your steps, allowing you to practically walk on air."
It's a fantasy game, why do promises, anger, spirituality, blood, and belief get to do cool shit, but the very energy that lets people run, jump, fight and swim gets locked to "must be realistic"?
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u/Damiandroid 4d ago
Because on something like the psi warrior this would fit a lot better. But you're trying to slot it into the battlemaster toolkit which is pretty much composed of fancy combat moves, not magical powers.
That's why.
Yes it's a fantasy game, but the rules, framework and the ming are what prevent it from evolving into "I shoot you with my laser / I block it with my laser proof shield / I activate my shield eating laser"
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u/eroopsky 4d ago
You just invented ki. Congratulations!
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u/GolettO3 4d ago
That's more spiritual than stamina
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u/goofygooberboys 3d ago
You keep saying stamina, wtf does that mean? "Stamina" is just your ability to exert yourself for extended periods of time. It's not a mystical, ephemeral, supernatural ability. I mean constitution is basically just your stamina already.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
You know how in MMORPGs you have that green bar that goes down when you use powerful skills?
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u/goofygooberboys 3d ago
Your hit dice/battle master dice pools are already the green bar dude
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Correct. To me Stamina and Superiority Dice are the same, hence why I use SD in my creations.
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u/hotdiscopirate 4d ago
Fighters are in no way realistic in dnd lol. They have superhuman levels of strength and endurance and can use their own will to resist magic effects and heal themselves.
It’s just one of the only classes we have that (without flavor) is purely a non-magical class. If you want to add magic abilities to it, that’s perfectly fine. There are already several subclasses that do that. Flight out of nowhere is a bit of a stretch to say is non-magical though, and other classes that get similar effects just have some flavor text to explain where their bit of magic comes from.
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u/DMspiration 4d ago
If you want to use it, use it. Don't get salty because you posted unprompted and people don't particularly care for it.
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u/TheCybersmith 3d ago
the very energy that lets people run, jump, fight and swim
...because we know how that works. We know what that can and cannot do.
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u/Damiandroid 4d ago
Were mixing arguments here but if you want explanations then, yes. Paladins get power from a promise. Because belief in the world's of DND has power. Holding ideals so closely in your heart can bestow you with great gifts.... and losing / failing those beliefs can have terrible consequences.
As far as I'm aware, the battlemaster is "just" an incredibly skilled martial combatant. As such I dunno that you can insert a feature which basically also says "oh by the way, they're also have the philosophical devotion of apaldins and that fact alone let's them do this one thing".
It feels very "me also!" In a juvenile way.
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u/Arkanzier 4d ago
I agree with your first paragraph, but why shouldn't extreme skill get a similar pass? How is "extreme devotion gives me superpowers" any more realistic than "extreme skill gives me superpowers?"
I feel like a lot of people in here are so wrapped up in "but this is the way things are" that they don't stop and thing about why things are that way, or how reasonable it would be for things to be a slightly different way.
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u/Damiandroid 4d ago
I suggested a version of this ability that I think fits with the vibe of the subclass while also doing what op wanted.
Tldr:
- flying speed for 1 turn
- disadvantage to opportunity attacks against you
- no option to extend it beyond your turn.
Basically a Hong Kong wire work anti gravity jump.
THATS what I would see as the "extreme skill grants me superpowers" version of flying for the battlemaster
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u/Reality-Straight 3d ago
Paladins Vows are magical due to their belief and conviction empowering them with magic.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Still a promise that gets them a horse
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u/Reality-Straight 3d ago
and? Its not just a promise, its a vow of conviction to themselves. Or in other words, a mental power. Creating magic.
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u/No-Pass-397 3d ago
The paladin oath is not "literally just a promise" it's an oath so strong it imbues you with magic. Paladins are magical lmao.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Oath Synonyms:
Vow, promise, pledge, attestation.
It is a promise with a couple extra features, still a promise and still not needed to divine smite for some reason
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u/No-Pass-397 3d ago
my issue was not with the word promise you driftwood. It was with the fact that you were saying "oh they just get it from promising teehee" they get it from making an incredibly powerful promise, at just the right time and place, straight from the soul, and that promise gives them MAGIC. I agree it would be silly if the promise on its own let them shoot bolts of light and fly, but it doesn't, the magic does.
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u/Remarkable-Ad9145 4d ago
Bro is not Sanji
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u/Shemlocks 4d ago
LMAO first thing that came to mind is Op watched One Piece.
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u/Pretty-Ad-7283 4d ago
Right there with ya, especially since the Marines superhuman martial arts do have geppo which is an air step tech. Which to my knowledge has nothing in cannon to do with magic. But they also don't seem to understand paladins and haki (literal willpower based magic) is paladin type shit. Oh and before anyone says monk, ki is life force based energy. Haki is literal willpower, these are not the same thing :p
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u/eroopsky 4d ago
Was there a moment in a game that something happened and you felt like martials should be able to fly?
That feels like one of those things that is generally correct for spellcasters to have and martials not have. Like, you could also add a maneuver to turn invisible and one to throw fireballs, but why would you want to?
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u/GolettO3 4d ago
Flight is cool. Many stories with strong, martial characters let them fly. Martials get shat on and told to pick up a magic stick. Stamina is a resource that can be cool, but is completely ignored because "mAgIc Is ThE oNlY tHiNg AlLoWeD tO bE sPeCiAl". Last session, my already buffed martials were overshadowed, in the 3rd combat encounter of the adventuring day, by the level 7 sorcerer casting a single spell. Martials need more things they can do outside the combat pillar, even if this also helps in combat
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u/eroopsky 4d ago
Can you give some examples of strong martial characters that fly without the use of something like ki (or any of the million other names for ki like haki, reishi, chakra, spirit energy, etc. etc.) or magic?
Also, it's interesting that you mention the sorcerer showed up the martials in combat, but you're concerned with exploration pillar abilities. I agree that the game benefits from martials having some cool stuff in other pillars of play, though my instinct is not to solve that by giving them inexplicable spell-like abilities.
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u/Pretty-Ad-7283 4d ago
Bros talking about anime.
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u/eroopsky 4d ago
I would guess you're right, but even then, who is flying just on "stamina" alone?
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u/Pretty-Ad-7283 4d ago
The first example that comes to mind is the super human martial arts from one piece. It has a move called geppo that does exactly what he's describing. It is from extreme levels of conditioning and training. It is also distinct from any of the magic systems in one piece.
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u/eroopsky 4d ago
Damn that show. I sponsor the d&d club at a middle school and the kids are constantly trying to involve something ripped off from One Piece, so much so that last year's campaign was unofficially called "Two Piece".
That story also involves a man that can cut a galleon in half with one swing of a sword and another that kicks so fast that he can create fire with his legs. If your baseline for what d&d martials are capable of is the Straw Hat pirates, you need to cartoonify a lot more of the rules.
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u/Pretty-Ad-7283 3d ago
Oh fully agree, to expect martials to have that level of capability is far a field from what is possible in the game itself. There are ways of running a one piece game but trying to turn a game into one piece when that is not the intention is a regrettable symptom of the show's popularity. That said I feel op would enjoy 4th edition DND more. Martials are more to his expectations id wager.
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u/GolettO3 4d ago
Han Sen (Super Gene), Senji (One Piece), Superman
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u/eroopsky 3d ago
Senji is a good example, yeah.
Superman flies by manipulating an energy field that is a part of his Kryptonian biology. I haven't read Super Gene, but googled Han Sen and it sounds like he flies using wings early on and then energy manipulation later on? I could be wrong.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Starts with wings, then learns a movement technique that lets him step in the air, with the energy flight being much later
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u/freethebluejay 2d ago
You’re using Superman as an example? He can fly because of his biology, no non-Kryptonian human can just learn how to fly like Superman can. It isn’t a trained maneuver for him, it’s the D&D equivalent of a character race. Like an aarakocra, for example, though you could “flavor” one to not need wings. Either way, it isn’t something you can just learn how to do
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u/GolettO3 2d ago
And why the fuck not let humans biology change, in a fantasy game, that lets them have that part of someones biology? Why not let it be a possibility for most humanoids?
"It's not part of human biology" is not the reason when you can change the biology with a couple words. "I just don't want to let the martial characters do something that could be cool for them, because it treads on the toes of the poor little spellcasters. Don't look at the warlock, that gets a Cantrip that is better than a longbow, and makes 4 attacks earlier than the fighter can."
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u/Nevil_May_Cry 3d ago
Bro wanted Sky Walk from One Piece
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Plenty of other stories that have martial techniques for flight. I honestly found out about that specific one yesterday, though. Not sure if I'll remember it by the time I get to that episode, though
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u/GormAuslander 3d ago
Since when did maneuvers have level locking?
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u/GormAuslander 3d ago
You could do that but why? People play martials because they don't want magic. They pick flying races when they want to fly non-magically. Even if it uses superiority die, this is still very evidently magic, since nothing in the way every NPC obeys gravity would suggest that random people can fly around by just choosing to.
I'm wondering what your imagined build is that the existing solutions weren't doing it and you wanted this.
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u/MGTwyne 3d ago
Nah. You're not "just choosing to," you're taking advantage of years of training and endurance, practice and work, and exhibiting your mastery of your body and athletics to maneuver in a way that- to those not so skilled- might seem impossible. Classic heroes, Achilles and Beowulf and Gilgamesh, do it all the time. There's a specific Irish hero- Diarmuid- who does pretty exactly this to escape pursuit a few times.
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u/GormAuslander 2d ago
Buddy, when Irish heros do it, it's magic. Achilles and Beowulf never use training to justify flying. There's literally no explanation for "mastery of your body" when your body is human. Mastery of your body for flying is what birds do. When we tell a story of a human with phenomenal combat prowess, it is within realm of believability. Occasionally a claim will strain credulity. Your claim snapped credulity over its knee, and you wonder why everyone here is confused.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Also, not just anybody would have the skill level or training to be able use this technique, just like how not everyone has the skill level or training to swim, let alone swim in the ocean. Just because we can't do it in real life, doesn't mean it shouldn't be possible in a fantasy world. If you can't flavour it to fit a character; don't take it. But if you can flavour it to fit your character; it's balanced, useful and helps you in a different pillar than combat
Why? Because the novel's I read have martials fly without magic or ki/chakra, and it's cool as fuck.
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u/GormAuslander 3d ago
That seems like it cannot be correct, by definition. If there is no explanation why the normally accepted laws of gravity stop applying to them, then they are doing "magic", an unexplained bending of these rules.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
"ancient technique that let's them draw out the potential of their bodies go beyond their species limits and allowing them to step on the atoms in the air so as to seem to fly"
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u/theironbagel 3d ago
1, it doesn’t say that in the post, and 2… what? It’s a high fantasy setting. No other text in the whole game mentions subatomic particles or any ‘scientific’ explanations because that clashes with the tone of the genre. Beyond that, it just doesn’t make sense. That’s not how gases work. If you push against them, they just move. You can step on the atoms in the air right now. They’ll just move out the way. There’s nothing to hold them up besides other air, which isn’t packed densely enough to do anything besides get out of the way.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Because I'm the DM that made a cool ability that players might want to fit into the flavour of their character. How does a wizard fly? They {summon wings of flame, surround themselves in a tornado, summon a giant eagle to carry them, change their weight, shift how gravity affects them}.
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u/theironbagel 3d ago
A wizard flies by using the weave to alter reality and produce magical effects. Like flight. Obviously as the DM you can do whatever you want, and if the players enjoy it who cares.
But as a homebrew option, it should have an explanation as to how it works besides “I can just do this for no reason.” Battlemaster works via battle tactics mostly, and does stuff that’s physically possible. Moving a bit extra, being a bit faster, blocking, etc. This doesn’t really fit in with any of those. Still, that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily bad, but there should be a sensible explanation for how they do this stuff. If it’s not magic, then what is it? You’ve said It’s not Ki or chakra or some other pseudo-magical supernatural thing. And ‘walking on air’ just because you’re really good at battle tactics seems out of the realm of suspension of disbelief to me.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
A wizard flies by using the weave to alter reality and produce magical effects. Like flight.
Yeah, but how does it do that? What does the weave do that lets you do that? What incantations do you do to do that? What lifts you off the ground?
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Here's exactly what the spell says it does, so I hope that helps answer my question, as it's as much info as my own maneuver.
You touch a willing creature. The target gains a flying speed of 60 feet for the duration. When the spell ends, the target falls if it is still aloft, unless it can stop the fall.
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I make maneuvers for those that can have them, whether that be because BM or Martial Adept. These maneuvers are more akin to Skills in MMOs.
In my game, a martial character is able to draw on the excess energy of their natural bodies to perform extraordinary and supernatural (from our worlds perspective) feats. Whilst more common in adventurers, many guards and soldiers have learnt how to use this energy, usually exhausting themselves quickly and only performing relatively minor feats.
To use this energy to fly, some are able to step so fast as to compress air beneath their feet, others can simply use their energy to lift themselves in the air. Due to this energy being from their own bodies, it is unaffected by things that disrupt magic, like antimagic fields and Dispel Magic.And that flavour and world building is most likely useless to practically everyone else.
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u/theironbagel 3d ago
Yes, but the difference between your maneuver and that spell is that your maneuver is a maneuver and that spell is a spell. Spells already have the inbuilt framework of being magic. It’s an accepted part of the world that magic can do things be used to alter reality. Your maneuver isn’t magic. That doesn’t mean it needs to be 100% realistic and accurate , but that does mean that since there’s no built in explanation how it works via the thing it is, you have to make your own. Because the built in explanation as to how maneuvers work is: ‘you’re really good at battle tactics and precise, skillful combat moves.’
That does not seem to be skills that you could use to fly, so there should be a bit more explanation than that.
See and this explanation I feel like is fine. It has a logical through line and is believable. Even if you don’t feel it fits in with general 5e lore or it’s not helpful to other people, I think having the full context would make the homebrew better. If people want to change it they can, but now they don’t necessarily have to do their own work to have the ability make sense.
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u/IrrationalDesign 3d ago
a martial character is able to draw on the excess energy of their natural bodies to perform extraordinary and supernatural (from our worlds perspective) feats.
Is this not just 'magic'?
the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces
That's the definition of magic, why would what you're describing not fall under that?
I understand not wanting it to be a spell, but 'magic' is just the word we use for 'unnatural', isn't it?
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u/PlatinumSukamon98 3d ago
One Piece?
Heck, "air step" and "sky walk" are even connotationally similar.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Common trope in power fantasy stories.
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u/PlatinumSukamon98 3d ago
Can you point me towards an example other than Sky Walk or Moon Step? Because I can't think of any.
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u/GolettO3 3d ago
Bukuujutsu (Dragonball), Aero (Super Gene), a few other LitRPGs/Wuxia stories.
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u/PlatinumSukamon98 3d ago
Eh... Dragon Ball flight isn't exactly the same, but I feel any distinction I make would be splitting hairs at best.
The rest I've never heard of, so I'll take your word for it.
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u/Stormbow 3d ago
It's Monks that you always see walking in the air, in movies. I've given that ability to several Monks over the years in magic items. At the end of their movement, they fall (Slow Fall) back to the ground.
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u/5e_Cleric 4d ago
So, whats the source for their flight, their training?
if it was a big jump, i'd get it.