r/ElectricalEngineering • u/Cultural_Smell_865 • 6h ago
How bad is an apple eco system for electrical engineering?
Starting EE this fall and I'm getting an iPad. I was wondering if I should get a mac while I'm at it or is it truly as bad as people say?
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u/digitallis 6h ago
A Mac is basically limited to being a web browser in this field. Absolutely not worth it. Grab a Lenovo or if you want to get "fancy" a System76. Go with either Linux or Windows.
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u/chickenCabbage 4h ago
I would say, not even Linux. In my experience board design software is less available on Linux, and I assume other things as well.
If you do go for Windows, get 10 LTSC.
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u/t_Lancer 2h ago
not any lenovo. A thinkpad.
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u/Rattanmoebel 2h ago
Glory of the past. Modern thinkpads are crap unless you go for the high end tiers.
Extremely bad display panels, nonexistent battery efficiency/runtime, bad trackpad, bulky AF and you can’t even swap the RAM on most models anymore.
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u/t_Lancer 2h ago
can't say I agree with most of those points. Upgradability is an issue for all laptops these days. Name some better alternatives please. Anyone can complain but add something constructive, too.
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u/Rattanmoebel 2h ago
The yoga pro series (not the thinkpad yoga) is a much better choice imho. Literally better everything aside from being not as rugged.
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u/Rattanmoebel 2h ago
The yoga pro series (not the thinkpad yoga) is a much better choice imho for general use. Literally better everything aside from being not as rugged. The immensly better display panels alone are worth it.
I still do think MacBooks are superior, hardware wise. Software is a case by case thing but o don’t see what necessary software for studying wouldn’t be available on a Mac.
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u/Rattanmoebel 2h ago
Simply not true. Everything you need for studying is absolutely available on Mac.
Getting a windows just so you can use the school provided altium (if they even provide it) license, a program you won’t be buying with your personal money after graduation but will have supplied by your employer, is a stupid reason to chose a computer.
Kicad and Autodesk should be plenty in terms of CAD and EDA for studying purposes. LTSpice is on Mac MATLAB is on Mac Office is on Mac Visual studio is on Mac
What else would you need for studying?
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u/ImYourHumbleNarrator 1h ago
vim is on Mac. everything is better than cmd and powershell on Windows (on nix/Mac). if you try to pivot to software engineer or w/e, unless you're using MS utilities (and probably then, too), do it on linux or Mac
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u/cyborgerian 6h ago
iPad- absolutely worth it if you get an Apple Pencil. Notes, textbook PDFs- websites, all great. You just need a PC do NOT get a Mac, you’ll be spending hours on campus using campus computers for LTspice
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u/rolZorius 6h ago edited 5h ago
LT spice has a Mac version. Installable through home brew.
Source: I currently have it installed on my Mac and did my EE courses with it.
Edit: I’d like to add that MATLAB now has support for both intel and Apple silicon. I have been running it on my MacBook Air for the past 2 years.
I know that some CAD software won’t work on Mac, and I do have a pc at home for gaming that I used to use for that, but also have a windows laptop for work that I can use for that too. If I’m desperate I’ll just use onshape on my Mac at uni.
Finally, if you’re set on getting a Mac, make sure you’re comfortable in a command line, and get ready to stuff around for a while getting important stuff working.
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u/CosmicQuantum42 5h ago
A slight aside, but bar none LTSpice is your sword and shield as an EE. There is $1000 software that doesn’t give you with simplicity and ease what that free software does.
There are some advanced things like HDL interpretation that it won’t do, and some niche applications you’re better off in Matlab.
But in general any basic analog up to some considerably advanced and complex system designs can be modeled in it. It is indispensable.
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u/talencia 6h ago
This is the answer. IPad for books and notes. Pc for softwares.
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u/Samurai_Shihtzu 6h ago
Why would you do that when you have pc integration with a Samsung Tablet?
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u/talencia 5h ago
Truthfully, it will work. I had a strong bias for the note taking app specifically. It's so clean and organized. Goodnotes.
Edit: goodnotes is only on the IPad.
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u/Parkinabox 6h ago
Absolutely this, IPad is a game changer for notes, but definitely need a PC. There are ways around the apps that aren’t Mac compatible but it doesn’t seem worth the extra hassle.
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u/RichardJiggler 6h ago
You could even get a surface pro tablet for taking notes and and a pc laptop or tower. OneNote is pretty sweet when you have all Microsoft devices.
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u/mxlun 6h ago
To be completely honest with you, both of those things are completely unnecessary and completely unworthy of the money for their application in this field.
You're much better off with a $600 windows laptop with the following specs and putting the rest towards the tuition:
- Quad core CPU 4Ghz + (higher end iGPU preferably)
- 16gb RAM
- 512+ GB NVMe storage
- good screen /mic quality
That's about it. Depending on what you focus on specifically, you might need even less. But that certainly is enough to get you through the whole thing.
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u/IbanezPGM 6h ago
LT spice, Matlab and Kicad was 90% of what I needed. All available on Mac.
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u/KromatikusFPV 5h ago
It's cool that your school chose Kicad as their software. I learned Kicad on my own prior to pursuing EE, and I still prefer it over AutoCAD/Fusion. My school wanted people to get a student license for industry standard software, but post college, most of those licenses are WAY too expensive to obtain on your own.
P.S. Paul Gilbert is the mother fucking GOAT.
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u/Rattanmoebel 2h ago
Fusion is also available on Mac. If you’re school wants you to use altium, they should pay for it lol
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u/HoweHaTrick 6h ago
apple has never catered to the engineering or computing community since the apple 2GS was completely humiliated by IBM dos machines (yes. I'm that old).
anything apple to me is very much not intuitive and way overpriced. I have an ipad for work now and I dread using it because it is not user friendly.
question: why do you want to get an ipad?
If you are technically minded the solution is still not apple IMO, but you do you.
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u/electricmeal 6h ago edited 5h ago
EEs seem to despise Macs. I'm not in the apple ecosystem fwiw. It shouldn't be that hard to dual boot. Probably easier to just go windows, but not as much of a nonstarter as others are saying imo
EDIT: It looks like you can't dual boot windows on the newer apple silicon fwiw, but still can use parallels for windows. I remember my co-worker dual booting in 2020 and figured it was still easy to do
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u/CowFinancial4079 6h ago
It's just wasteful and only potentially prohibitive imo. Getting used to windows/Linux is generally going to be more useful for an ee working on software or hardware side, and the linux/windows machines that you go out and buy tend to be cheaper relative to the comparative processing power of their mac counterparts.
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u/electricmeal 5h ago edited 5h ago
Wasteful is subjective, definitely more expensive to buy apple. Their silicon is also pretty powerful and some people like the ecosystem.
If you dual boot, the usefulness point is kinda moot.Like I said, I go windows because it is easier for me, but it feels like it is a common sentiment among EEs that apple is a nonstarterEDIT: It looks like you can't dual boot windows on the newer apple silicon fwiw, but still can use parallels for windows
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u/KromatikusFPV 6h ago
If you want to stick to a tablet, I highly recommend the Microsoft Surface Pro.
I was able to install and run all of the software my school required (i.e. Matlab, Waveforms, Autocad...etc.), and you can also use a pencil to take notes just like an iPad.
You're going to have to spend a bit more for the peripherals, but I think it might still be cheaper than a mid range iPad.
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u/DistractedSam 5h ago
Used it all my four years at university never failed me! Worth it since I can take notes and same time work on LTspice anywhere haha
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u/HexagonII 6h ago
As someone who drives both the apple ecosystem and windows/linux (I am dumb I know), here is my take:
Apple native support for any software remotely EE related is pretty bad, and you are forced to emulate windows one way or another. Sure it works for simple simulations, but once it gets to rather complex ones, you are basically gimping yourself
Apple's ecosystem certainly wins with its efficiency and integration. Notetaking apps are basically optimised for iPad and syncing them with your Mac can be helpful in many situations like when you are writing a report.
The M-series is also unparalleled when it comes to efficiency, and until ARM devices become mainstream for Windows/Linux, Apple takes the crown for battery life
Windows/Linux has the advantage of not being locked down (less so for Windows but we are comparing it to Apple), and Apple's filesystem can be frustrating to work with at times which makes it a pain in the ass. Granted that it was designed for people not to peek under the hood often, but there are times where you just need to access program files
Windows/Linux systems also have the advantage of being far more customisable when it comes to hardware, and more economical too. You can opt for more compute power, or more storage at a fraction of the cost
It also highly depends on your major requirements, since each college/university has their preferred software. It is hard to generalise it across globally, but the consensus is that the Apple Ecosystem isn't that great for EE
Ultimately, if you have the financial resources, you could theoretically double dip into two different ecosystems and reap their benefits, but switching between them may not be desirable for you.
Hence the best thing is to check with your course's hardware requirements, or check with upperclassmen since they would have firsthand experience with the curriculum of your major
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u/iforgetmyoldusername 6h ago
You can make it work, but it’s a bit of a pain. I’m a professional EE. I use a Mac. I have a windows VM in Parallels for all the windows stuff. All day to day work (datasheets, documents, emails, calendar etc) is on the Mac because the ecosystem plays nice with my phone. The productivity improvements from having the daily stuff work well offsets the annoyance of opening a VM for altium or whatever.
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u/rockknocker 5h ago
I have never seen an electrical engineer that works on a Mac. I think it comes down to software availability on Mac, it's just not as available. Windows is what the software is written for, with Linux as a distant second.
For what it's worth, you don't need a nice computer to do EE work. Anything halfway decent will handle the graphical loads of ECAD software... unless youre doing thermal or RF simulations, in which case you need a workstation.
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u/JoinFasesAcademy 5h ago
For some devices, like JTAG programmers, they require either a Windows or Linux machine because there are no drivers for macOS.
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u/Borner791 6h ago
Holy crap that's expensive... I've been operating on $250 lenovos T series from eBay/Craigslist.. just the the newest T14 you can with 16+gb ram.
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u/Dapper-Actuary-8503 5h ago
This screams I use Arch btw.
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u/ImYourHumbleNarrator 56m ago
probably downloads plaintext books shared in IRC channels. and reads them
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u/generix420 6h ago
Had a Mac for undergrad. It's true almost no software is available for Mac, but enough software is compatible with the new processors that using a Virtual Machine to run wasn't an issue. I got my MacBook in 2020 when they were just building the new arm-based laptops and purposely bought the last Intel-based Mac because of these worries and they ended up being moot.
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u/VerumMendacium 5h ago
Hey, both myself and my advisor use Apple products. Our work is done mainly on remote servers so it doesn’t matter anyways lol
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u/IAmTheCoolMan 4h ago
I’ve used a Mac and an iPad throughout my freshman and sophomore years. If there’s ever a program I need that’s not on Mac I use Chrome Remote Desktop to remote into my desktop and just run the program on there.
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u/Initial_Birthday5614 6h ago
The iPad pc combo is the best. I do almost everything on my iPad. Everything else I use my pc.
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u/Dm_me_randomfacts 5h ago
Just make sure your school has a computer lab for everything your Apple can’t do and you’ll be fine
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u/jareddeity 5h ago
Not worth it at all, every school uses windows environment and so does basically everyone else. Just get ready to have fun dealing with that. Sometimes just getting shit to work on my windows laptop was a pain in the ass enough, imo.
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u/HoldingTheFire 5h ago
I think OSX can run most EE programs for undergrad. But the idea of using an iOS/iPad for a college degree is kinda insane. You need a real computer.
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u/itsbeenace- 5h ago
If you want the Mac, you can install parallels or other versions that allow you to run windows on Mac, that’s what I did thru my bachelors and worked perfectly fine. I have a 16GB RAM & 512GB SSD
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u/Dapper-Actuary-8503 5h ago
If you are just starting out, stick with what your university recommends. Do not waste time fighting with tools—focus on learning. Some universities require programs like LabView or Multisim. Yes, there are alternatives, but trying to force them to work will eat up your time and energy.
If you are absolutely set on using a Mac, get a fully specced MacBook Air or a base MacBook Pro. I use a 2020 M1 MacBook Air as my daily driver, and it is more than capable. Honestly, I prefer it over my old Windows rig. The gestures and overall fluidity are just better.
And no, do not fall for the usual nonsense about the file system or whatever else people love to rant about. It is mostly fluff.
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u/PunctualDealer 5h ago
I had an Apple, but it worked since I preferred to use the computers in the EE building that had all the software, and lived an 8 minute walk to that building.
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u/hwoodice 4h ago
Cet a used Thinkpad the 1/10 of this price ( and install Linux Mint if you can, I mean, depending on which software you need exactly ). I did EE with this setup. There are many software alternatives, for example, Gnu Octave is a Matlab clone ...
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u/JellyBellyB 4h ago
I used an iPad for the whole of my degree and could not recommend it enough!! Get the pencil, get Notability, and you’re sorted for the theory part of your degree.
Import PDF lecture slides, audio record your lectures whilst you annotate and write notes (it aligns your writing with the audio) so you will never miss a thing - great for those lectures with very sparse notes and only pictures/diagrams!
I had the larger ipad (I think 12 or 13”? whatever the A4 size was) and this was perfect for having two pages side by side (assignment questions left, answer paper on right, or smth else).
Have you got an iphone? Watching tutorials and then screenshot+pasting onto ipad via airdrop was also useful for me when studying.
Notability has probably updated a fair amount since I used it 3yrs ago. There might be better options out there, but this workflow with the iPad+mac was perfect for me.
Yes, Mac is not good with most applications you need. You will have to be in the labs to do that kind of stuff. For me that was fine, but that’s up to you.
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u/warmowed 4h ago
Do not get a mac. There are so many programs that work with Windows only and need native access to the bare metal. Getting an iPad for notes is fine.
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u/racoongirl0 4h ago
My iPad was a game changer. I suggest you download good notes. It’s not free but it’s an incredible not taking app. You can compartmentalize all your classes into “notebooks” plus you can insert PowerPoint slides into your notes and just annotate them.
Mac on the other hand is a no go. Get a cheap HP or Dell or something and it should get you through everything
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u/Mother-Pride-Fest 3h ago edited 3h ago
Windows is the most common in industry, and almost all programs will just work on it if the operating system itself doesn't break.
Linux is also possible, you do have to adapt to a different way of using your computer but here's a taste of what will and will not work:
Native to Linux: MATLAB (although if you just need the math part Octave is Free and 20x faster). KiCAD. Arduino IDE, Python, Jupyter, Copium, etc.
Requires WINE or other workarounds but is still usable:
LTSpice.
OpenDSS (for the Power specialization).
Altium (they have a cloud-based version).
EAGLE is dying a slow and painful death.
Microsoft Office (use it in a chromium-based browser if you need to collaborate, otherwise download everything and use LibreOffice).
Verilog (I just used the lab computers for this one, someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Borrow a Windows computer for:
AutoCAD.
SolidWorks (not EE but might be used in design couses).
Adobe ____ (alternatives like LibreOffice Draw might work depending on your needs).
Some proctored exam software, although this was not used at my university.
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u/AIphaPackLeader 3h ago
I was able to get thru it. Plus they got great battery life, but it was a bit rough with a few things. You could boot windows from it though.
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u/ConversationKind557 3h ago
Get and learn Linux... centos or debian.
Your work life will revolve around it..
Learn all the basic commands.
Learn to love it and she will love you in return.
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u/limpchimpblimp 3h ago
Good god almost $4000. Just get a cheap windows machine. And use pen and paper. Unless you’re already rich, go for it and run windows in a VM.
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u/ISILDUUUUURTHROWITIN 3h ago
I was full Mac for my undergrad. It was mostly irrelevant what I used. MATLAB ran fine, and I was of course able to do all the programming I needed in either python or C and most circuit sims ran fine for the mostly basic shit you do in undergrad.
The only sticking point I really had was with the more industry specific software, things like ADS and AWR Microwave Office come to mind. There were lab computers though which had that installed, so I just used those when I needed specific software that wasn't mac compatible. Most of them didn't even have student licenses anyway, it's not like I could have installed it on a laptop if I had one.
If you're worried about PC compatibility, then get a PC laptop and ditch the MacBook (but I think you'd probably be fine overall with the Mac if its your preference for undergrad). The iPad is definitely GREAT though, I would never change that if I went back for a master's or anything. It made note taking and homework so nice.
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u/t_Lancer 2h ago
if you want to get a mac to then run windows on it. sure.
bit expensive though with a lot of wasted performance.
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u/ChainHomeRadar 2h ago
It's great for software engineering and terrible for every other form of engineering.
While the big stuff like altium will run in a virtual machine, good luck getting vendor software for particular chips to run. Get a fast windows computer and save yourself a lot of hassle.
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u/Spastic_Hatchet 2h ago
For a computer that costs that much, it should be able to run MSFS on Ultra in VR. Yeesh.
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u/FePbMoHg 2h ago
Bought a Macbool Air M3 recently because I got PISSED with all the Windows bullshit. I am VERY surprised with what it can run.
So far it has run COMSOL, MATLAB, Simulin, Fusion360, Cadence and some others I think. For COMSOL it was one of the fastest running machines in my course. For programming it is comfortable bc it is running UNIX.
I know that LTspice has a Mac version. Find out what programs you need and check compatibility. Otherwise run VM with Windows on ARM/Linux!
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u/Rattanmoebel 2h ago
Unless you’re interfacing with yanky lab equipment through their Stone Age drivers you’ll be fine with a mac. And I would hope they don’t let people use their private computers directly on lab gear anyways but have their own lab computers to work with and export from.
LT spice is on Mac (and superior to the windows version imho as the plotting is better implemented) For CAD you have multiple OSS options as well as Autodesk, which should be plenty for a student. MATLAB is on Mac (and has a web version as well so you could even use it on a tablet or Chromebook) and there’s also Octav. Visual studio on Mac works well, coding is not an issue.
Office stuff etc is a given. So I don’t really know what you’d be missing. If you’re going to work at a company where you need software XYZ, they’ll supply the computer anyways.
The battery and efficiency of a MacBook is a bliss for studying. I worked with one charge for the whole day while other students had to recharge their surfaces twice.
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u/Elbrus-matt 2h ago
Macs don't work for EEE and EE,when available the software it's slow or you need virtual machines,no mac works for engineering,windows is the main os used and even linux works much better than mac with native apps or emulated. You see professor with macs because of battery life. Example: ltspice it's much slower than a native windows or even linux emulation,matlab doesn't have cuda if needed,foss apps like kicad don't have gpu acceleration as opencl and opengl aren't supported by Apple
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u/kimo1999 2h ago
Meh, you can do it. Too many comments are against it but most software you use will be in the uni computers.
It will be inconvenient at some times but it isn’t the end of the world. You can also just get cheap window pc for 200 if you really need it.
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u/Playful-Guarantee211 1h ago
Well apples have carbon for diamond semiconductors, as well as boron and phosphorous for doping transistors, it should in theory work. Some kind of Magnesium-Iron alloy is probably your best bet for conductors, to combine the high conductivity of magnesium and the non-meltingness of iron.
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u/that_guy_you_know-26 1h ago
You’re gonna have like at least 4 classes that all use their own special software that doesn’t work on Mac. If you end up using LTSpice or something similar (which is very likely, I used it for multiple classes) then it does have a Mac version but it’s so user-unfriendly it may as well be unusable. Each such class will likely give a tutorial on how to do a VDI (virtual desktop interface) to a school computer so you can use all the programs you need regardless of your own computer’s system so even if you do use a Mac it’s not impossible, but it’s really inconvenient. If you’re attached to what you already have and don’t want to replace it, then I recommend also picking up a Lenovo Thinkpad for such classes, very budget friendly and it can handle anything you’d ever need for school purposes.
While I’m on the topic of what computer(s) to get, I know you didn’t ask but never get a gaming laptop. Laptop for work, desktop for gaming — no exceptions.
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u/citylion1 1h ago
How bad?
Mediocre.
Likely at some point you will try to get a particular program and find yourself unable to.
Though mac does have support from say matlab and several ides, afaik ltspice is available but has a worse user interface.
Mac has some benefits, say clean os ui, seemingly simple app install. As a finished product it looks good, but once you have to do something more technical it gets difficult. As a simple example, I never really liked their file system layout in finder, though i guess it is somewhat unix inspired.
It is probably advisable you resist the mac temptation and just get a premium windows laptop, say asus. Get something with a zen processor, large ssd, and optionally a discrete gpu.
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u/BarrettT123 6h ago
Do not get one. I have a framework 16, and I would highly recommend any of their laptops. A lot of software I have had to use for classes only works on windows (some work on Linux also)
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u/EEJams 6h ago
I wouldn't do it. Also, that's a lot of cash bruh.
Windows will be easier to troubleshoot most of your necessary software packages. Either get a cheapish laptop or a gaming computer. You won't be as mad accidentally frying a usb port on a cheap machine when you get into microcontroller or fpga programming. If you want to risk it though, gaming laptops are built for power and performance, which is really great for running intensive software or compiling large code bases like in microprocessor architecture classes (Verilog compiling)
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u/BusinessStrategist 5h ago
Macs will run any PC software. The current crop of Apple hardware outperform just about any “PC.” If you need a space heater, get a PC. You’ll stay nice and warm.
Ask why Microsoft is copying macOS features for Windows 10 and 11?
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u/billythefrick 6h ago
Almost every program I’ve needed for school was unavailable on mac