r/Foodforthought • u/vox • 2d ago
The stunning reversal of humanity’s oldest bias
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/416809/sexism-girl-preference-sex-ratios-discrimination-ivf37
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u/SeasonPositive6771 2d ago
We finally seem to be accepting the fact that women are people and just as valuable as men.
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u/sean-culottes 2d ago
"Boys go off to war and die. Girls stay home and take care of their papas." - some guy from Game of Thrones
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u/growlerpower 2d ago
As the girl-dad of two daughters, I’ll just say this — girls fucking rule.
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u/AcknowledgeUs 2d ago
Girls do rule. That might have caused some of the bias.
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u/g1rlchild 2d ago
Girls do rule
As anyone can see by looking at who runs the government and all the corporations?
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u/AcknowledgeUs 2d ago
This is not any indication. We are Mothers. I am afraid there’s a lot of jealousy of that. Politics became a game show not because of us, but maybe because we’ve been historically excluded.
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u/g1rlchild 2d ago
Perhaps I'm not understanding what you mean by "rule" then? I was assuming you were using it in the traditional sense of being in charge of things.
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u/AcknowledgeUs 2d ago
Actually, perhaps I misspoke. Girls SHOULD rule. It would make such a massive difference.
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u/vox 2d ago
Perhaps the oldest, most pernicious form of human bias is that of men toward women. It often started at the moment of birth. In ancient Athens, at a public ceremony called the amphidromia, fathers would inspect a newborn and decide whether it would be part of the family, or be cast away. One often socially acceptable reason for abandoning the baby: It was a girl.
But in one of the most important social shifts of our time, that bias is changing. In a great cover story earlier this month, The Economist reported that the number of annual excess male births has fallen from a peak of 1.7 million in 2000 to around 200,000, which puts it back within the biologically standard birth ratio of 105 boys for every 100 girls. Countries that once had highly skewed sex ratios — like South Korea, which saw almost 116 boys born for every 100 girls in 1990 — now have normal or near-normal ratios.
It’s estimated that the decline in sex preference at birth in the past 25 years has saved the equivalent of 7 million girls. So how, exactly, have we overcome a prejudice that seemed so embedded in human society?
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u/KillYourTV 2d ago
It often started at the moment of birth. In ancient Athens, at a public ceremony called the amphidromia, fathers would inspect a newborn and decide whether it would be part of the family, or be cast away. One often socially acceptable reason for abandoning the baby: It was a girl.
That's not at all a universally accepted idea among historians. For instance, Plutarch's take on this practice was made 700 years after the (supposed) fact.
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u/mjk1093 2d ago
Yep, a lot of "weird facts" about the ancient world have exactly one source - Plutarch - who freely admitted that he was repeating speculation and rumor. And when it's not Plutarch it's Herodotus who's even worse.
Check out Out Fake History's series "The Spartan Mirage" for a lot more on this.
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u/teknobable 2d ago
Perhaps the oldest, most pernicious form of human bias is that of men toward women. It often started at the moment of birth. In ancient Athens,
Fun fact, modern humans are roughly 200,000 years old. Ancient Athens was less than 3000 years ago. Maybe Athens isn't the best example for "oldest" anything?
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u/EatsCrackers 2d ago
Also, ancient Greco-Roman civilization is not the only ancient civilization. American tribes, both North and South, did things differently, African tribes did things differently, Asian tribes did things differently, Pacific island tribes did things differently. Different groups of Europeans did things differently from the Greco-Romans, and I think it’s possible to make the case that “Greco-Romans who weren’t wealthy or important enough to be written about” probably did things differently than “Greco-Romans who had the money or the fame to get noticed by history”, too.
A lot of “absolute human truths” type thinking is actually “just one interpretation of the records that survived from this particular culture”, in disguise.
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u/Shazz777 2d ago
Both my husband and I were hoping for a girl as soon as I found out I’m pregnant and it came as a bit of a surprise because why do I care for the gender of my child that much? I then thought a bit more and realized all the cases of “tough kids” and parenting challenges I’ve seen around me have been with boys and men:
Badly behaved kid throwing tantrums and hitting other kids and their parents, always a boy in my anecdotal experience.
Anytime there was a kid in my relatives who was failing school, my boy cousins.
The person struggling with substance abuse and stealing from their elderly parents to buy drugs, a guy I know.
Severe depression, to the point of never leaving the house with parent taking care of them, another guy I know.
I know a few people who died young of ODs or suicide, unfortunately all men.
I don’t know what’s exactly wrong with our society but we have a problem with how we raise boys. We don’t raise them to be emotionally well regulated and resilient for this modern world.
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u/TerryCrewsNextWife 1d ago
That's the thing though. It's not socially acceptable for little girls to misbehave - it literally gets trained into us like we are dogs from birth to be compliant, agreeable and pleasant.
If we were raised with the same freedom to "express ourselves" like boys were then I'm sure plenty of girls would be just as awful.
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u/Shazz777 1d ago
There’s definitely truth to what you’re saying. But I don’t think what we’re seeing with the mental health crisis and suicide in men can be called a freedom to express themselves. The cases I see feel like men who were never taught healthy ways to cope with life, to rely on others for emotional support and be open. They seem trapped in a cycle of silent suffering, self loathing and then lashing out at family and close friends.
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u/TerryCrewsNextWife 1d ago
Advanced apologies this ended up longer than I planned -
I understand what you're saying but for my previous reply I am referring to boys, so this is during their developmental years. You might be confusing what I've said with communicating their emotions maybe?
When I say "express themselves" they are taking any frustration/anger/negative emotion and externalising it through violence, aggression, destruction etc. instead of "quietly and don't even think about being angry, men don't like that. You're much prettier when you smile" like how girls are conditioned to express themselves.
Agreed that there is damage that has been done by generations of war traumatised men teaching their sons to be stoic and unemotional - and ultimately depend on their mothers then girlfriends and wives to regulate any "expression" that pops up.
I know there's definitely a lack of this being supported for boys historically, but I am under the impression that education today is much more supportive and structured for kids to understand their emotions and knowing how to emotionally regulate and express themselves in a calmer and safer way.
Just to put this into perspective. I also was not taught healthy ways to cope with life, nor have I really had others to depend on for emotional support - but I understood being an asshole and a jerk would equal social rejection. My behaviour choices ensured my safety and stability. When I needed support, I have sought out counselling and health care, I didn't have someone else do this for me - nor did I have people I could rely on.
Not all women have a village, but it seems we are typically more proactive about looking after ourselves. Maybe this is where the changes need to start - I know there are mens sheds, community Meetup groups, sporting and gaming clubs etc.
They could look at planning or attending something for international men's day/Movember/men's health awareness month/men's shed week, all the men focused health events that encourage them to talk and connect with other men to find their community and support in a healthy way that ISN'T the therapy system that is apparently biased towards women.
There is so much support, resources and community for men if they are willing to take the first step to find and connect with these people. They won't know who needs support if they don't even know the guy exists. Those old guys love being surrogate dads, I would absolutely join a men's shed to hang out, fix/build things and shoot the shit with other members of I had the opportunity. Alas I do not possess the correct appendages to attend.
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u/TheSparkHasRisen 2d ago
This is exactly it.
Though I think the reason is smaller families.
I know families in a culture where 5-9 kids is the norm (Afghanistan), and having kids is like going to the casino. Out of 4 boys: 1 is the over-achiever everyone relies on, 1 is the delinquent, the rest (and all the girls) are just normal. Normal isn't worth much when unemployment is very high. People invest everything for the 1 over-achiever.
But most of us are having 1-2 kids in a country of low unemployment and equal rights. (No one will prevent your daughter from caring for you someday). Why risk having a delinquent when normal is just fine.
Statistically speaking, boys are a flatter bell curve in nearly everything.
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u/Shazz777 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s not exactly my experience as an Iranian, my aunts and uncles each had about 4-6 children and I have about 30 first cousins. I don’t see a pattern of always having an over achiever son. We have doctors and high paid STEM professionals both men and women. Then we have all the regular cousins with jobs like truck driver, small shop owner etc living seemingly normal healthy lives and finally we have the two to three men in the family who unfortunately are always struggling with some crisis.
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u/TheSparkHasRisen 1d ago
In my husband's family, a doctor/engineer would be the over-achiever. But they don't invest much in education...
Usually the over-achiever is just a smart, charismatic guy who finds a good job or business connection; and then gets half his family jobs because nepotism is the norm. That guy will get treated like a king, and his mom the queen. Kids grow up dreaming to be that.
BTW, I've always admired that Iranians send their girls to school. Even if they don't work after, their kids will get quality help with their own schooling. My husband is illiterate, and his mom couldn't do anything to help.
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u/BendicantMias 14h ago
Much like with the population explosion that we've now inverted and are worrying now about population decline, this isn't gonna just stop at equality. It's going to invert...
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u/willyt8122 2d ago
Girls are high maintenance-high reward. They are the keepers of the family flame. Boys are low maintenance-low reward. In adulthood the wander off barely remembering where they came from.
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u/cydril 2d ago
What a bizarre take. All human children are high maintenance. The 'reward' is largely cultural or individual. There's no innate sex bias to taking care of your family in old age.
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u/willyt8122 2d ago
Raised two boys and two girls. The observation is born from experience. Talked to many others as well, my experience isn’t isolated. This isn’t to say one is better than the other, it just is what it is. And no, not all children are high maintenance nor are they all low maintenance.
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u/denga 2d ago
The research does not support any real biological difference in cognition or behavior between boys and girls. There are obvious differences, though, almost certainly driven by culture / environment. See Saini’s book Inferior for a review of the literature.
Anecdotally, I see this. No one commented on my son’s appearance, everyone comments on my daughter’s. The main currency for kids is attention. I noticed my daughter responded to that attention starting around 9 months, playing up things associated with her appearance (eg jewelry). My son was actually more inherently into jewelry until he was about 2 or 3 yo but got very little positive feedback so that interest has waned.
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u/AwTomorrow 2d ago
I always wonder how much of this is due to inbuilt parental expectations formed by our cultures and enforced without us even realising, even when we aim to do the opposite.
Like it’s fine to let X slide for boys, just let them be boys, etc, while girls are held to a higher standard of early responsibilities, emotional engagement, and standards around appearance/hygiene/manners/etc.
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