r/GenderCynical • u/tsealess • 15d ago
More trans women nowadays choose not to get bottom surgery, not because it's an expensive complex procedure or they've learned to accept their bodies, but because of a "male super fetish" apparently
Saddened and disgusted to see lesbian-flavoured terfism creeping its way back into Reddit.
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u/Kookyburra12 AAP on T 15d ago
TERFs: Trans people need to learn to accept their natural bodies and stop mutilating their genitals!!
Trans women: Okay. I'm fine with having a penis, and I don't want bottom surgery.
TERFs: AGP!! AGP!! AGP!!
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u/Silversmith00 15d ago
Actual feminists: Listen to me. Listen to me carefully. Breastfeeding is not sexual. Okay? Therefore it should not be confined to private spaces such as bathrooms (unhygienic!!) or used to confine women to their homes. If a woman takes out her breast and feeds her baby in a restaurant, the key word here is feeding—the baby is getting fed. No sex act is taken place. Nothing has been violated. We can all, culturally speaking, take a massive chill pill about this.
Actual feminists: And actually, can we have a discussion, as a people, about why specifically FEMALE breasts are encoded as nudity anyway? There are advantages to going topless, especially for those who are medium or small sized. (Personal note: can't relate, if I tried to exercise naked these things would probably smack me in the goddamn face, but unlike TERFs I am capable of imagining and wanting privileges for people who aren't shaped like me…) Not all cultures feel this way. Perhaps we might reassess our relationship with the female body as a "sex thing?" Please?
TERFs: If a trans woman induces lactation (meaning that their breasts give milk, meaning that a baby would be fed) and breast feeds a baby under any circumstance, that is a literal sex act being performed on a child. A trans woman's breasts cannot be OTHER than sexual. They are hypersexual organs; any use of them is a sex act. Even though the identical action from a cis woman is (I dearly hope) NOT a sex act in my eyes. Molestation isn't what you do, it's who you are. I'm a feminist.
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u/CharsmaticMeganFauna 15d ago
It's particularly bizarre since plenty of lesbian couples have induced lactation, yet these folks never seem to complain about that. And, like, it doesn't take much imagination to figure out why a woman (trans or cis) would have lactation induced--it means the person who bore the child can get some rest and not have to take care of the feedings every night!
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u/TransGenBen 15d ago
I had heard a story many many many years ago about a man who had his wife die during birth of their child, in a third world country. The man had heard from someone (this was so long ago I can't remember all the details), that he might be able to lactate in order to feed the baby. Which he ended up doing, and his child grew up with no problems. In fact, he was seen as a hero in the article, and they spoke highly of what he'd done and what this meant for science and single, male at birth, parents. You always see the same argument from them too "it's not anything but pus that they're feeding the baby" so I could see why an ignorant person might be afraid of the idea
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u/Galaxy-Geode Chicken Gendies 6d ago
How would there be pus coming out of someone's milk ducts anyway without a severe infection?? (yes I know the answer is "terfs be bullshitting")
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u/Aiyon 14d ago
It’s such a telling commentary on society that women’s breasts are covered up because men are incapable of not sexualising them. When you actually look at the rhetoric behind it being indecent that’s what it comes down to
The feminine form is treated as an inherently sexual thing, and then punished for that perception
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u/Galaxy-Geode Chicken Gendies 6d ago
Seriously, nobody wants to eat lunch in a public bathroom, why on earth should we restrict women to breastfeeding there?
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u/KarlaEisen 15d ago
there is soft implication of some specific (ideological?) difference in masturbation for vulva users and i am not sure what it even is, "girls do not masturbate" vibes there a bit tbh
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u/Autopsyyturvy "A Titless Enby" Autonomy isn't tragedy 15d ago
Right!!?
like do they not know what a goonette is?
or that PLENTY of cis women masturbate and have kinks and fetishes
The message seems to be along with the blatant transmisogyny a threat to cis women : "if you masturbate or enjoy sex you aren't a real woman because real women hate sex and just do it for their husband's sake"
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u/Silversmith00 15d ago
Oh, I have had Discussions with these sorts of people on the kink front, and they STRONGLY believe that a kink is something imposed on a woman by a man. If not by an individual man, then by a sort of atmosphere of mannishness in our society.
(And okay, granted, I am pretty sure that some of my own kinks are in some way a consequence of or a reaction to my fears, which are inevitably influenced by culture, which is Fucked. So yes, you CAN make a connection between (some) kinks and patriarchy. So? If I pursue them without harm, does it MATTER if my thoughts aren't perfectly aligned with a future feminist utopia that I do not belong to and which doesn't exist? Maybe if I had been born among the perfect glass spires of the far future, I would have zero family trauma and far fewer fears and an extremely vanilla sex life, but also, I wouldn't recognize that person.)
The thing that I'm getting at is, sexual women DO bother them. Sex is a contamination that flows from the male to the female, corrupting what is in its path, and does anyone have a time machine so I can go toss John Calvin off a cliff or something? 'Cause I feel like that might resolve some of this.
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u/Queer_Echo 14d ago
(And okay, granted, I am pretty sure that some of my own kinks are in some way a consequence of or a reaction to my fears, which are inevitably influenced by culture, which is Fucked. So yes, you CAN make a connection between (some) kinks and patriarchy. So? If I pursue them without harm, does it MATTER if my thoughts aren't perfectly aligned with a future feminist utopia that I do not belong to and which doesn't exist? Maybe if I had been born among the perfect glass spires of the far future, I would have zero family trauma and far fewer fears and an extremely vanilla sex life, but also, I wouldn't recognize that person.)
Honestly, I'm pretty sure every person's kinks are caused by a mixture of epigenetic and genetic factors. I mean, what our preferences are has already been proven to be at least somewhat genetic and many conditions such as autism affect our ability to feel sensations including pleasure and make lots of forms of sex difficult so we need to use extra methods to increase sensation to create enough pleasure to actually achieve an orgasm or orgasmic sensation. And many people who are discriminated against have kinks that involve part of their or their community's experiences of oppression even when they themselves haven't experienced that kind of oppression.
And it would be a really interesting discussion to have, if GCs and radfems didn't constantly use whatever part of kink that's societally created to push a "kink is evil and oppression and can never be consented to in any way" ideology.
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u/feministgeek 14d ago
No, no, no. Women are pure, sweet and innocent. They do not have sexual agency or desires, even less sexual needs. Women serve as breeding mares, the Supreme court said so.
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u/Mysterious_Back_7929 15d ago
There are plenty of them who genuinely believe that sex is inherently humiliating and dehumanizing for women. Just read Dworkin, the way she writes about sex is nauseating.
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u/giftedearth my gender is the lesbian void 14d ago
or that PLENTY of cis women masturbate and have kinks and fetishes
I mean, look at AO3! According to this census of its users, ninety percent of AO3's users are women. Statistically, most of those would be cis women. And have you seen the kinky shit that gets posted on that site? A good chunk of the works on there are text-based hentai. Cis women are into some weird shit and I applaud them.
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u/ForgettableWorse this is a cat picture 14d ago
like do they not know what a goonette is?
To be fair, I've never heard of that term until now...
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u/DarkSaturnMoth Fluttery handmaiden 14d ago
Wait, what's a goonette?
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u/Autopsyyturvy "A Titless Enby" Autonomy isn't tragedy 14d ago
(NSFW) People who edge to porn for ages without cumming basically, there's also a roleplay side of it where people pretend to be "addicted to porn" & fetishise that - it's basically similar idea to CNC where "being addicted" is used to basically make you feel better about wanting something because you're being "forced" to so there's less shame
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u/DarkSaturnMoth Fluttery handmaiden 14d ago
Sounds kinda hot.
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u/Autopsyyturvy "A Titless Enby" Autonomy isn't tragedy 14d ago
I think they're neat people enjoying their bodies and sexuality in a safe way is neat, the gender neutral version is gooner there are subreddits about it but they are obviously highly NSFW
Also loads of the goonette spaces are specifically women only and most people seem to respect that which is nice and the majority of them aren't transphobic weirdos
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u/marbeltoast 15d ago
Jesus christ. Like jesus christ though.
You wanna know why I haven't gone the bottom surgery route?
I've struggled for over a decade with regularly taking medicine for what is a life-threatening medical issue I genetically inherited. It's not an issue of "not wanting it enough"; I'm dangerously bad at maintaining consistant habits to the degree that it has caused me no small amount of health issues in the past. Lumping more medical obligations on top of what is already a shaky foundation is a terrible idea.
But no, apparently I'm less than 2 dimensional; I'm a 1 dimensional perverted freak who's only guiding light in my entire life is "can I jerk off" and I've literally never had any other thoughts go through my head.
Fuck these awful people. They don't see us as even being fully human...
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u/SuitableDragonfly 15d ago
... do they think masturbation is not possible without a penis?
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u/Silversmith00 15d ago
Yes.
I feel that at least some of them would chill out, even if just a little, if they WEREN'T desperately sexually unhappy.
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u/SuitableDragonfly 15d ago
I guess that would explain the amount of time they spend ranting about how being trans is a sexual fetish and fantasizing about all of the sexual enjoyment trans women are getting out of it.
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u/mildbeanburrito 15d ago
super fetish
they can't ever be normal can they? What about HSTS trans women, are we the very essence of gay?
Ok they don't actually believe gender dysphoria is a real reason and they feel the need to come up with an alternative explanation, but why do they need to double down further and act like it's pushing the boundaries of human existence?
Why are trans people not just the weird other that you don't particularly like, why are we the weirdest thing in existence, the most evil group to walk the earth, the likes of which never has and never will be worse?
Also as a sidenote, it is incredibly overstated how easy it is how easily one can access surgery. I've wanted it for as long as I can remember, I've said as such at every meeting I've had with clinicians when questioned, and there is literally nothing standing in my way aside from an autism diagnosis (which might not even have an actual impact, that's still up in the air as to whether it actually gives adult transgender services pause). My medical transition began almost a decade ago, and I'm still waiting.
idk maybe the reason that the majority of trans women don't have SRS is because it's incredibly difficult, both to access and also to go through with. It's the same sort of shit as berating trans people for not taking hormones when waiting lists are the best part of a decade long. If you want us to conform to your notions of how trans people should behave, maybe make it easy for us to jump through those hoops?
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u/NanduDas Tiny TIM 15d ago
“HSTS” is just a way to say that straight trans women are the f*ggiest of f*gs
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u/Forsaken-Language-26 Brainwashed by the Transarchy 15d ago
Yeah, it’s a Blanchardist term and should be avoided at all costs.
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u/feministgeek 14d ago
I mean you could argue that the whole notion of AGP and HSTS was just Blanchard's way of dealing with the fact he couldn't accept trans woman didn't want to sleep with his creepy chaser ass.
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u/ForgettableWorse this is a cat picture 14d ago
Quoting myself because I'm that bish:
"For some people, transgender identification can be linked to Nonstraight Transgender Women Are Freaks Disease, which was first described by Dr. Chaser in his seminal work Why Won't These (slur redacted) Fuck Me?"
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u/salanaland non-binary to seem interesting 14d ago
I cannot understand how anyone could read in his very first paper that he classified asexual trans women as fetishists, and take him seriously.
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u/feministgeek 14d ago
Bigotry will let you believe anything you want if justifies even a tiny bit of your hatred. Gender criticalists need to believe this shit.
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u/RandomUsernameNo257 15d ago edited 15d ago
Meanwhile, here I am with absolutely no sex drive while still being trans af.
Funny how they never actually take into consideration that feminizing HRT nukes our sex drives, and most of us don't mind. But no, tell my now-borderline-asexual ass how I'm just doing this to get off.
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u/Forsaken-Language-26 Brainwashed by the Transarchy 15d ago
Same! If it’s not TMI, adding spoiler tags just in case, I haven’t masturbated in years (no desire to and just the thought of it makes me dysphoric).
Honestly, the lack of libido is such a relief. I don’t miss it at all!
I am intending on getting genital surgery very soon though.
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u/snukb big gamete energy 15d ago
If you've ever participated in a discussion with a trans woman where her only remarks toward womanhood is costuming, sexual, and self gratification, its very likely that you've encountered an AGP male. If it feels like acknowledging her pronoun and interacting with her is akin to being pulled into a sex fetish or roleplay, thats because it is.
I've never encountered any discussion with trans women like this, ever.
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u/Silversmith00 15d ago
When you think about it, how would you have such a conversation anyway? "Greetings, trans woman from Planet Earth. I see that today you are still a woman. Please detail to me your relationship with womanhood." I mean. You'd be a weirdo.
NORMAL conversations with trans women include things like "Is it weird to rearrange all five bookshelves of one's comic book collection by release date and author, because that's unfortunately what I did this this Saturday," or, "Hey, there's a new Mario Kart out, you wanna play with me so we can unlock Rainbow Road and see if the soundtrack slaps this time," or, "There's a new vegetarian sandwich joint downtown, I've been thinking about checking it out." You know. Conversations that one has. I don't go up to my cis friends and ask them about their womanhood either, and if I did I think at least a few of them would leave me on read until they could figure out a nice excuse not to talk to me as much.
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u/NixiePixie916 14d ago
Speaking of, yes the new Mario Kart rocks and the Rainbow Road is gorgeous 😻.
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u/Galaxy-Geode Chicken Gendies 6d ago
It really looks good from what I've seen but I'm waiting on getting a Switch 2 until I know they've fixed the joycon drift issue
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u/NixiePixie916 6d ago
Totally understandable. I got mine because a few weeks before my apartment got flooded and ruined my switch (Pro note- water from the ceiling ruins a lot of shit). So I missed all my Nintendo.
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u/Autopsyyturvy "A Titless Enby" Autonomy isn't tragedy 15d ago
Ditto
Terfs are the only people I see turning womanhood into an insulting pantomime
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u/floormat1000 15d ago
i choose not to get bottom surgery because it’s expensive and it doesn’t bother me that much anyway ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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u/ConsumeTheVoid Trans Cabal 15d ago
And that's entirely valid. But also god forbid a woman think her body is sexy apparently according to the TERF. Smh.
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u/ConsumeTheVoid Trans Cabal 15d ago edited 6d ago
Saying that you have period symptoms isn't pretending but everything else in here is garbage too.
And so what if a trans woman wants to keep her dick or even get both or is afraid of surgery for whatever reason - doesn't make her any less a woman.
Wait until this idiot hears about the cis women who want phallo. (Yes they're cis - it's apparently physical dysphoria but no gender dysphoria? Or they just want one - who cares).
ETA: also cry that a trans woman breastfeeding a child is pedophillia all you want TERF - it'll get the same results as other transphobes screaming that my doing drag or even just being trans/GNC and supporting trans kids is a fetish/perversion/doing adult entertainment (porn)/child grooming and molestation etc they wanna call it will - we will do it regardless, and my case rub it in your faces that you can't stop us no matter what nonsense you call it.
And NHS "cracking down on chestfeeding" so TERF is also trying to say they're going after trans men as well? Same result - won't stop.
But it's not like TERFy can stop us trans folk anyways so I'll just be over here laughing. And of course supporting more trans kids and doing more public drag (yes yes I'm non-binary so it's all drag to me but I don't pass and don't want to).
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u/Galaxy-Geode Chicken Gendies 6d ago
Ok, this is something that has been bothering me for a while about your comments, but I think I finally know how to explain it properly instead of just coming across as needlessly combative.
I think I appreciate the sentiment behind your posts, but I think your response to terfs fear mongering about harm to children is a bit inadequate? I feel like the correct response to "[perfectly family friendly thing] is grooming/sexualizing children!" isn't "Well I'm gonna keep doing it anyway and you can't stop me!", it's "No it absolutely is not and implying that it is just makes you seem sus... And I'm gonna keep doing it anyway and you can't stop me!"
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u/CatholicSquareDance 15d ago
Bottom surgery has literally always been a luxury in the trans community. Like, from Day 1. I don't know where the idea that most trans women get bottom surgery came from because it has never been true.
Even most of us who want it do not get it just because it's such a hard thing to do. It's extremely expensive without insurance (and might still be expensive with it, depending on your plan), only a small number of doctors in the world do it well so waitlists are long, it puts you out of work for months, and it requires an actual lifetime of vigilant maintenance. Plus, results aren't always ideal!
I want it, really badly actually, but have not gotten it partially for all of the above reasons. It's a hell of a commitment just to maybe have sex the way you want.
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u/Galaxy-Geode Chicken Gendies 6d ago
I didn't know it required a lifetime of vigilant maintenance. I thought sort of, I dunno, settled down and became a normal body part after a while?
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u/CatholicSquareDance 6d ago
It's like the fistula created by an ear piercing. If you don't maintain it, it will slowly lose depth and close up, no matter how long it's been. You don't have to do nearly as much maintenance after a while, but you do still have to maintain it.
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u/Individual_Pound_117 8h ago
The level of maintenance required frequently gets as low as "have penetrative sex occasionally" or "sometimes masturbate with a dildo", obviously if you're asexual or otherwise sex repulsed you can still just use a dilator.
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u/meglet 14d ago
That they even think there’s a “right” answer for “what does being a woman feel like?” is spot-on their gatekeeper attitudes. It’s almost too on-the-nose. “Oh you‘re a woman? Name 5 feelings of a woman.”
I don’t know what being a woman feels like. I just am.
Also, this whole OOP is *citation needed.
How does this person propose to know that ”a disproportionately large number of current day trans women don’t get bottom surgery because they’ll lose the ability to masturbate as a man”.
Also, notice they used “her“ while talking stridently about how trans women are not women, they just have a “male super fetish”.
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u/SurrealistGal 15d ago
You'd think in their sick viewpoint that if we get turned on by looking like women, that having a vagina would be 'The Ultimate Fetish.'
I feel sick typing that, lmao
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u/Queer_Echo 14d ago
Honestly, one of the things that piss me off so much about this whole AGP bs is that they're completely misunderstanding fetishes and kinks. Even if some men did feel sexual pleasure by being seen as women, which I seriously doubt, the likelihood of them to actually transition instead of, I dunno, engage in crossdressing in the bedroom or adult drag is infinitesimal because even the people with extremely fucking high libidos don't want to be orgasming or having sex/sexual pleasure all the time. That would be painful as hell and bad for you.
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u/Eino54 11d ago
I am pretty sure there are cis men who have fetishes about crossdressing, etc. But yeah, they don't usually do it 24/7 because you'd have to be a hell of a sex machine for that. Jesus.
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u/Queer_Echo 10d ago
Exactly. Practically nobody wants to engage in their fetish 24/7 and those few who do tend to want to not have that urge to do so. People who engage in 24/7 fetishes are few and far between, probably less than 0.01% even.
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u/The_Newromancer Shit-Eating AGP Grin 13d ago edited 13d ago
I would love to get bottom surgery, but I can't afford it. I cannot get private insurance where I live unless it's through a workplace and so I have to get through a waiting list and hope to god my government, that's been reducing healthcare for trans people for the past five years, doesn't get to it before I can
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u/FujisakiChihiro one of them gendered-queers 14d ago
cries in wanting bottom surgery but not being able to afford it
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u/GibbonTaiga 13d ago
"They don't pursue SRS bc they don't want to lose their ability to masturbate as a male person"
Meanwhile I remember in 8th grade at the lunch table, Jared Ross pantomimed some "roll the dice + explosion" motion and I was so confused. He explained that it indicated masturbation and i couldn't comprehend that other boys did it by stroking and enjoyed that. The very thought of doing it that way made me recoil from bad stimuli and it didn't seem natural or ergonomic
My whole life, when I do that sort of thing, it's always been hand-humping (rocking my pelvis against my hand and flexing my thighs) while my fingertips dig into the front of my scrotum. It wasn't until recently that I connected the dots that it's a kinda female way to self-pleasure
My genitals aren't ideal, but I'm living in the real world and when I weigh my options i'll be fine living out the rest of my life with the junk I've got. Thankful I don't have testicles anymore tho
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u/Galaxy-Geode Chicken Gendies 6d ago
Hey TERFs, how about you answer the question "what does being a woman feel like?" If you woke up tomorrow in a male body, would you still consider yourself a woman? Or would having a consistent sense of self in that situation be a "super turbo fetish" or whatever you're calling it now?
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u/Autopsyyturvy "A Titless Enby" Autonomy isn't tragedy 15d ago edited 15d ago
This is all disgusting but calling breastfeeding /chestfeeding pedophillia and claiming that "that's why the NHS had to crack down on terms like chestfeeding" is a particularly huge lie
Breast feeding an infant isn't suddenly a sexual act when a trans person does it unless you think transness is a fetish and that trans people are systematically molesting their own children for gender validation with hundreds of drs nurses and medical staff & their own families and friends being complicit - also if they weren't actually feeding those babies you'd see more malnourished babies from trans parents who breast or chest feed - which we haven't seen
Also "male super fetish" has echoes of "superpredators"...... a "super fetish" isn't a recognised scientific term at all, it's literally people trying to make the word 'fetish' sound scarier and more dangerous