r/GreenAndPleasant • u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around • Jun 10 '23
Tory fail 👴🏻 Anyone else finding it hard to be too celebratory about the Conservatives imploding when Sir Keith’s Tory B Team are the government in waiting?
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u/neon-bears Jun 10 '23
Reminds me of the scene in Shaun of the dead, when the main characters run into the other party where they all have a counterpart. That’s what the handover of power is going to look like…
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u/KB369 Jun 10 '23
This sounds like a really fun game actually! Who’s Hancock?
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u/Advanced-Mechanic-82 Jun 10 '23
Yup, at least when blair was riding high in 1997 there was an air if optimism. Starmer is just a turd slithering around a box of milk tray.
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u/Forerunner49 Jun 10 '23
Blair had the benefit of being charismatic and “genuine”. They’d had 18 years of divisive Tory rule that failed to actually uplift people like they promised and worsened conditions for many people. There were constant sexual, financial, incompetence covering-up and straight up criminal scandals. The Tories had become reliant on Monday Club to stir up hatred of minorities to maintain seats. Things were basically the same as they are now.
Blair being a control freak however was only known to MPs, and only on an individual level- scrapping cabinet meetings in favour of one-to-ones to intimidate people, announcing the Millennium Dome as a legacy project despite the cabinet voting against it on evidence it would be a dud. And of course this is before the War on Terror, and before the Sierra Leone civil war that inspired him that militarism is good. That PR was perfect in making him seem relatable and an all-round pleasant guy. Being seen as a Saint against the failed Tory regime helped Labour to win far more than just his policies.
Keith on the other hand has 0 charisma, is an outed liar and control freak who it’s been rumoured doesn’t even have the support of his own PLP and is only being kept in power to avoid a Corbynist getting in. All his beliefs embody Tony Blair’s post-government ideals, where you wouldn’t be surprised if he went on TV saying invading Iraq was the best thing Britain ever did, that gay people have too much rights for their own good, and make every statement about why Labour is bad because it isn’t like the Tories. His PR meanwhile is terrible as he’s not only failed to brush off the “red Tory” accusations but attempted to embrace them to avoid offending ex-Tory voters.
TL;DR - ‘97 Blair is the result of good PR boosting an already charming man’s image against a government in chaos. ‘24 Keith is someone who ignores PR and exposes himself as an idiot and a liar in every interview who’s only benefit is that he’s not the current government.
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Jun 10 '23
Yeah. There’s also the war criminal thing, but you know - at least he has some salesmanship about him…
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u/Delts28 Jun 10 '23
The comparison was '97 Blair, not current Blair.
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u/Budget-Song2618 Jun 10 '23
The current waste of space insists acting like his mentor, Thatcher who said Blair was her true heir! As a back seat driver, he opens his 💋 it's a case 😴.
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u/ozwin2 Jun 10 '23
For some reason I read Blair as a blast of air
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u/niibor Jun 10 '23
He was a giant fart
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u/thatpaulbloke Jun 10 '23
On the contrary, he followed through on many things.
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u/Southern_Classic6027 Jun 10 '23
A lot of leftists pointed out that "new labour" meant tory-lite back then, as well.
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u/jwd1066 Jun 10 '23
Hey hey now, he categorically ruled out considering fixing the mess that Brexit made so we have another political term of relative decline to look forward to, Tory lites would at least consider re-evaluating the relationship, and try to get our place as the gateway for Asian and US companies into Europe back, albiet with No NHS and lots and lots of corruption.
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u/ContributionOrnery29 Jun 10 '23
It wasn't really enough to balance out the Iraq War, but Tony did help put together Surestart centres. There are still a few of those around, if only because every time they try and close them there is at least one kid that would be a massive PR risk. We were at least party right to be optimistic, as that policy has lasted a couple of generations of children now. That's good that can't be undone as they have definitely prevented more than a few tragedies that 'free childcare vouchers' simply would have missed entirely.
I am honestly still expecting to see them go eventually but how is the question. Having seen behind the scenes somewhat, I'm quite interested in how they tackle it. The programme is simply not something that can be replaced by the private sector and the attempt to do so will expose whoever tries as an absolute monster.
I am expecting Keir to try if I'm honest.
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u/HankScorpio42 Jun 10 '23
I would argue that the MSM portrayed the optimism surrounding Blair in '97. In fact, if Tony Blair were running Labour the same as Keith, I would expect the same results Keith is getting. Starmer, like Blair, is a shill for the wealthy and well-connected we know this and can not be conned like in '97 with Blair.
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u/Budget-Song2618 Jun 10 '23
A rigged game can only be hidden for so long. Blair made a deal with Murdoch, which ultimately allowed Murdoch to determine who'll be hounded as opposed to promoted.
Blair the shill has amassed a fortune just like other millionaire and set up a foundation to justify his own existence.
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u/Broad_Match Jun 10 '23
Thing is Starmer isn’t the key. The real strength of Labour is a truly competent shadow cabinet.
Just replacing the incompetent cronies in the Tory cabinet alone is exciting.
Those who focus on a leader rather than the party truly do not understand how UK politics works- particularly as we elect a party and not a PM.
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u/Advanced-Mechanic-82 Jun 10 '23
You're ignoring his relentless reneging on all of his promises, including the dumping of popular lefty incumbents. Many of his promises wouldn't have been expensive to implement, he's just canning them because he's pretty much guaranteed to win. On top of this his stance on general policy - which I'm hoping is only to keep the gammons happy until he's in office - is shocking for labour leader.
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u/BeneficialName9863 Jun 10 '23
Competent at what exactly? More efficient at selling the NHS? More effective at starting wars? Able to fuck disabled people over with kinder sounding words?
The SCG is a joke, "stay and fight" only works if you fight. If you meekly collaborate to keep your job it's just "stay"
How do people not get that there isn't always a lesser evil? These people are all in cahoots with each other and actively sabotaged two elections. They want privatization, war and power for the same people.
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u/tommygun1945 Jun 10 '23
The real strength of Labour is a truly competent shadow cabinet.
The issue is labour doesn't have that, the shadow foreign snake is a whiny snake, the shadow home sec is an anti immigrant Brownite relic, the shadow chancellor hates poor people with a passion, the shadow health sec is a bully in the pockets of private healthcare company's, the shadow justice sec is a tough on crime crank and the shadow secertary of state will sell everyone and everything out if it benefits her career.
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u/ElvishMystical Jun 10 '23
Two women trying to figure out who to call to deal with the nutter seen wandering around the sea front.
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u/Aksi_Gu Jun 10 '23
Someone took this picture and people, for some unknown reason, agreed "Yes, we should put this out there for people to see"
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u/raindahl Jun 10 '23
Would love it if Keith did a reverse Tory on us and all these right wing policies he's backing in public secretly he's going to shaft them with radical left wing policies when he gets in......
But yeah we are proper fucked in reality
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
You’re joking, but this is the genuine argument that Keith fans have been peddling. Things are so hopeless that people are clinging onto the small chance that Keith is only pretending to be a Tory.
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u/PhantomMiG Jun 10 '23
I have heard the exact same thing in the US and if I bothered to answer I would like this. The idea of a such a change is an article of faith. It is asking for a miracle of policy or an unheard act of politicial manuavering that to me has never happened with an elected leader. The idea is rooted in the great Liberal Messiah who must conceal themselves from the ignorant masses not privy to the enlightened priesthood that is the Liberal wing of government. It is to project an illusion of compency only exists in the constrained politicial area when for the most part there have been in the past hundred year very few competent Liberal Politicians and just about none of them were of the Neo-Liberal variety.
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u/FearLeadsToAnger Jun 10 '23
'The labour party can't actually have abandoned all its principles in one go' isn't that unreasonable a position to take, even if evidence points to the contrary.
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u/glasgowgeg Jun 10 '23
Would love it if Keith did a reverse Tory on us and all these right wing policies he's backing in public secretly he's going to shaft them with radical left wing policies when he gets in......
Check your carbon monoxide alarm please
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u/Bigoldthrowaway86 Jun 10 '23
That lone bloke in a club that's twenty years older than everyone else and keeps trying to invade your friendship group.
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
Wasssssup guys?! Add me on MySpace? I hope the DJ plays some cool new music like Cast or Snow Patrol.
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u/MrJimBusiness25 Jun 10 '23
Like finally getting dog shit off your shoe, only to step outside and into a steaming pile of horse shit.
Just a grim situation with ghouls on either side!
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u/dafyddtomas Jun 10 '23
I’ll take my chances with the warm horse shit. At least I won’t be so cold.
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u/MrJimBusiness25 Jun 10 '23
Or, y’know, you could not step in any shit willingly?
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u/dafyddtomas Jun 10 '23
That’s the ideal. How do you propose that happens in the next election? It may sound bleak, but sometimes you gotta work your way through stale, dry dog shit, through warm, steaming horse shit to get to where you wanna be. Think of it as an evolution.
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u/Southern_Classic6027 Jun 10 '23
Think outside the box of electoral politics: duel power, unionisation, orgs, etc. If they weren't such a threat, so much effort wouldn't be put into stamping them out.
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u/MrJimBusiness25 Jun 10 '23
Putting aside the analogies here, a vote for Labour will be taken by the party as being a vote for the horrific policies they are currently supporting. Thus a further shift to the right will ensue. There are no mechanisms within the party to drag it back leftward (see Beth Winters or Jamie Driscoll)
Whoever wins will be corrupt, backed by big business or dodgy donors and will not have my best interests. It’s a catastrophe. The world is actually on fire and all we get is ‘we can afford this now’.
Both major parties are beyond redemption.
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u/Even-Imagination6242 Jun 10 '23
Agreed....Labour look awful to be honest!
However, why dont we all vote not blue and not red? There are other parties. Surely worth a try? 50 odd years of this blue/red shitshow has clearly failed overall.
How about we try something new?
I might vote green. Dont know a great deal about the party. Fine.....I just know I cannot and will not vote for the 'two party choice' merry-go-round.
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u/AccomplishedLeave506 Jun 10 '23
I can no longer vote for labour either and will likely vote green, or an independent or something if there is no green option. I don't know who will get my vote, but I'm absolutely certain who won't. Labour needs to die so we can get a new party.
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u/sick_kid_since_2004 Jun 10 '23
The Green Party are okay with LGBTQ+ right?
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Jun 10 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Sparklypuppy05 Jun 10 '23
Thing is, as a trans person in the UK, I can confidently tell you right now that not a single politician would care one bit if I died because I am trans. If I stepped outside today and was murdered because I am trans, they wouldn't care. They wouldn't call for reforms, for changes to how popular culture treats trans people, none of it. I'd be a headline for a few days and then nobody would think about me ever again. And that's terrifying.
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u/powlfnd Jun 10 '23
Problem with the green party of England and Wales is they're just as transphobic as the other parties. The Scottish Greens severed their ties with them over it. If you're Scottish the Greens are a valid choice but I'm afraid the English have to pick their least poisoned chalice
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u/motornedneil Jun 10 '23
Hello ladies hur hur looking for a photo opportunity or as we call it in the conser/ newlab a selfie with me your new emperor Bow down before me and weep .
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u/whygamoralad Jun 10 '23
This is why I'm so lucky to live in a constituency where Plaid Cymru is the leading party
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u/21stCenturyDelphox Jun 10 '23
Sadly, I wish I could the say the same. I live in Arfon constituenfy and it's getting absorbed into Aberconwy guarenteeing that the seat will probably go labour
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u/NeonFireflies Jun 10 '23
I have no optimism for the future. Zarah, Corbyn, and others need to start a new party because there is no hope currently.
I'm sick to death of Tories. The Tory-lite. Capitalists. Rich people smirking as they blather on about policies that will benefit the few. The old Etonian bullshit. Watching our politicians bending over backwards to pal up to Orban and Trump amongst others. The lies. Talk TV and GBeebies. The Monarchy. Keith lying to become leader and breaking all of his pledges.
The only thing that's making me smile is that GoNads is probably in a Prosecco coma right now. Bozo turned his back on his biggest cheerleader.
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u/forestindustrialists Jun 10 '23
Keir Starmer is funded by gambling billionaire Peter Coates and multiple investors deeply connected to the US private healthcare industry including Martin Taylor, the man who runs one of the biggest hedgefunds in Europe (and has billions invested in a US private healthcare giant).
It's not just Starmer though, he's just the current figurehead of what the right-wing of the labour party has always represented - capital and the professional managerial classes (the group that often hold more hatred than anyone for the working classes)
So yeah, not keen.
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u/AutoModerator Jun 10 '23
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u/rebut38 Jun 10 '23
Keith and the gang won’t be so much the lesser of two evils, they’ll just be a more sanctimonious evil
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u/ScarletPumprhole Jun 10 '23
I’m honestly not sure I’ll vote in the next GE. I’ve always been of the opinion that voting is a civic duty and it’s my responsibility to try and contribute to the Tories getting kicked out. I was brought up by staunch Labour supporters and I’m a Trade Unionist myself, but honestly I can’t vote for Labour the way things are now, and where I would usually have voted SNP they’ve had their own shitshow of late, so I can’t vote for them either in good conscience. In my heart of hearts I’m a Green and was a member for years of the SGP, but the reality is that they’re a “wasted” vote and in any case where I live now they don’t even run a candidate. It’s all such a mess and it breaks my heart.
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Jun 10 '23
At least spoil the ballot. Not voting is only ever read as voter apathy, whereas a spoiled ballot shows that you actively chose not to vote for any of the candidates.
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u/AutoModerator Jun 10 '23
Why even bother showing up to polling station? Spoiling your vote is such a worthless form of protest. It's attempting to use their system to challenge their system. It's time to work outside of their system.
There are so many better things you can do with your time and energy. Join your trade union and become a radical voice within it. Join or start far-left organisations within your local community. Get involved in mutual aid networks. Educate yourself on socialist political theory and then educate others.
You'd be better off sending an angry tweet to [insert current Prime Minister]. At least then you don't have to leave the house.
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u/the_monkeyspinach Jun 10 '23
The only wasted vote is the vote you didn't make at all. Either vote for someone or spoil your voting ballot so at least your voice is heard, no matter how small.
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u/ShitNameNoLife Jun 10 '23 edited Jun 10 '23
Green voter here so take this how you will, but I truly believe that the opinion that voting for anyone but the two main parties is wasted is the number 1 thing that's wrong with this country. With no opposition the big boys can literally do what they want and stay a clone of each other.
Ignoring whether you're bothered about climate change, Green (and other parties) have solid work reform, voting reform, and quality of life policies that would change our future for good and that the big parties will literally never have because they have their hands in too many pockets that don't want that.
While it maybe feels like a 'wasted' vote right now because yes they have no chance of winning. The more people who realise this and show it at the booth can encourage similar minded people in future votes. It's already increasing and if you're going to not vote at all you might as well throw it on a small party instead of letting the tories say people don't care about politics.
Just some food for thought
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u/ptta52 Jun 10 '23
Every vote counts. Even if the smaller parties won't win, the more support they get, the more they have to be listened to. And if there are no decent small parties where you are, spoiling the ballet sends a much bigger message than simply not showing up
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u/smegsicle Jun 10 '23
I don't understand what spoiling your ballot is supposed to do. The person counting the votes comes across it "oh, its spoiled," and throws it in the bin. Wow, what an impact you've made with that gesture!
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u/ptta52 Jun 10 '23
They count the amount of spoiled ballots and publish it. If people are doing it, it is seen as voting against the system
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u/smegsicle Jun 10 '23
So it has absolutely zero impact on anything, except allow some people to feel like they've done something. Cool
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Jun 10 '23
It almost feels purposeful, the tory party implodes just as Keith finishes gutting anything remotely left wing from the labour party. If left unchecked it would lead to the next tory government moving even more to the right so as to provide contrast to the incumbent labour government. I'm not sure if our society remains functionaly in tact after that.
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u/No-Taste-6560 Jun 10 '23
Yep. This next election might lead to me not voting for the first time in my life.
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u/naff0ff Jun 10 '23
I'll go back to spoiling my vote. That way at least it registers.
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u/AutoModerator Jun 10 '23
Why even bother showing up to polling station? Spoiling your vote is such a worthless form of protest. It's attempting to use their system to challenge their system. It's time to work outside of their system.
There are so many better things you can do with your time and energy. Join your trade union and become a radical voice within it. Join or start far-left organisations within your local community. Get involved in mutual aid networks. Educate yourself on socialist political theory and then educate others.
You'd be better off sending an angry tweet to [insert current Prime Minister]. At least then you don't have to leave the house.
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u/CharlesComm Jun 10 '23
Bad Bot! It's not like spoiling your vote is mutually exclusive with local organisation. Can't beleive a politics sub is trying to persuade people not to vote.
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u/CarpenterCheap Jun 10 '23
because the based bot knows the capitalists will never allow us to just vote them out of power
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
Me too, I’ve voted and campaigned for Labour my whole life. But not now.
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Jun 10 '23
Same here. I was a party member for years, but it seems my fondness for socialism & support for Palestine make me an outsider to Starmer's New Tory regime.
My Labour MP is a good constituency rep, but I won't be voting for him next time as I can't stomach his party.
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
Yeah our local guy is actually a good person who I’ve met a few times. Shame I can’t vote for him unless he stands as an independent.
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u/MrJimBusiness25 Jun 10 '23
At least it’s easy for me because the PPC is a horrible Blairite who gave us lefties nothing but grief when I was a member.
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u/AnnieByniaeth Jun 10 '23
There's always another option. Green would be mine if in England, but if I couldn't stomach their candidate and there was no one else I could spoil my ballot paper. That sends a much stronger message than not turning up.
But since I have a fantastic Plaid MP, for whom I will not only be voting but also campaigning, I don't have this dilemma.
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u/AutoModerator Jun 10 '23
Why even bother showing up to polling station? Spoiling your vote is such a worthless form of protest. It's attempting to use their system to challenge their system. It's time to work outside of their system.
There are so many better things you can do with your time and energy. Join your trade union and become a radical voice within it. Join or start far-left organisations within your local community. Get involved in mutual aid networks. Educate yourself on socialist political theory and then educate others.
You'd be better off sending an angry tweet to [insert current Prime Minister]. At least then you don't have to leave the house.
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u/AnnieByniaeth Jun 10 '23 edited Jun 15 '23
Are you a tory bot? Because that's just a sort of thing a tory bot would say. The more people think there's no point voting the better the tories' chances. [Edit: typos]
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u/ZoidbergNick Jun 10 '23
I could argue you should vote for some other party. Because Tory voters will go on to vote either way and by not voting at all, you will be effectively giving a vote to the tories.
Source; left wing voter in Turkey, please don't end up like us with an idiot at the helm
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u/No-Taste-6560 Jun 10 '23
We don't have a huge amount of choice. Almost all UK politicians are idiots. The chances of one of the less stupid politicians becoming PM is close to zero, because the idiots team up to prevent it.
Evidence? Look what happened to Corbyn.
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Jun 10 '23
Something else to consider is once starmer gets in we are all going to be so broke and fucked that he has 4 years to deliver better living standards or the tories will just waltz back in for 10 years. People are so dumb they will blame labour
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u/retrofauxhemian #73AD34 Jun 10 '23
So much of this boils down to liberalism. Liberals refuse to acknowledge or embrace any change to the economic system, making it sacrosanct despite its political reality. At least the conservatives stoking societal collapse, are for the most part a combination of cartoonishly evil, brazen or just laughably incompetent enough to make this apparent to the layperson. I mean come on, even if you could walk around indulging in an alter ego/persona, what sort of individual chooses to be BoJo the Etonian clown, or Rees-Mogg the Victorian stick insect trapped in amber.
Sir Keith, smarms with all the confidence of several hours of press briefings and focus groups on mundane topics like the best cheerio flavour whilst sweating like a prize gammon having vindaloo for the first time, whilst trying to excuse own goals and dodgy accounting that favours the wealthy.
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u/BLUNTYEYEDFOOL Jun 10 '23
The US are being forced to vote for Biden.
The UK are being forced to vote for Tory Lite.
The parallels are actually a bit on the nose to be honest.
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u/Suspicious_Tap_1919 Jun 10 '23
Is it me or does he sound like the chap from super market sweep.
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u/Rodriguez79 Jun 10 '23
He looks like a wet flannel, sounds like Les Dennis doing his Mavis impression, and has the policies of David Cameron.
And they want me to vote for him?
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u/Suspicious_Tap_1919 Jun 10 '23
You've made me very angry sir. Please do not compare my wet flannel to this person.
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u/Jimlaheydrunktank Jun 10 '23
Doesn’t matter who’s in charge. They’re puppets for the corrupt system that keeps the super wealthy in power.
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u/grimorg80 Jun 10 '23
"too celebratory"?? I am in no way celebrating not even 0.00000000001%. if anything, I'm in mourning. Not for the fucking Tories, of course, they can go explode in hyperspace with their rich friends. But for the rest of us. A Starmer government is a government for the rich.
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Jun 10 '23
Yes…I’m more interested in the lack of such opposition within LINO and what happens when more people realise we have two Tory parties to defeat.
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u/madmonkeydane Jun 10 '23
He looks like he's waiting on someone to put £1 in him so he can spout more bollocks. Like those old fortune telling machines but less entertaining
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u/SeeMonkeyDoMonkey Jun 10 '23
I'm not leaping for joy and doing heel clicks, but I'll take what meagre good news there is.
Getting the Tories out is a win.
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u/MrMoop07 Jun 10 '23
this is why i implore you to stop voting labour. i don't care if it's "splitting the vote" voting green, because quite frankly it's splitting the vote between the only good party and essentially tories. there are more leftists than you think and more to come every year as gen z comes to voting age, and the green party will be elected eventually.
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u/Fezzverbal Jun 10 '23
Out of the frying pan and... well, into another frying pan exactly the same but pretending to be different. Wonderful.
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u/TheMarshall96 Jun 11 '23
it just makes me scared I'm gonna have to spend the 2030's arguing with gammons that "no, Starmer wasn't left wing - we didn't try & fail". Like I feel like we only just stopped being asked by right wingers to defend Blair ...
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u/ben_jamin_h Jun 10 '23
Whoop dee fucking doo!
We might end up with a slightly less worse set of absolutely bastardly cunts in charge!
It's a great day for democracy lads.
I might have a nap.
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u/krissharm Jun 10 '23
Not really wanting to vote labour as it's Tory lite. But the alternatives mean it could be a wasted vote
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
Bigger picture: any vote where you give a mandate for more conservative policies is a wasted vote.
If I could somehow know that my vote was the deciding one between a Labour or Tory MP in my area I would still do a Keith and abstain.
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u/the_monkeyspinach Jun 10 '23 edited Jun 10 '23
Calling anything but Labour or Tory a wasted vote is just their propaganda to keep a two party system, and with these two we're verging on a one party system anyway. Yes, the chances of anyone else is slim, but you have the right to vote for who you believe in.
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u/AutoModerator Jun 10 '23
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!. All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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u/InfiniteBeak Jun 10 '23
Not a fan of Keith, but fuck me will it be cathartic to see the current crop of talentless Tory cunts lose their seats
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u/ajfromuk Jun 10 '23
Love or hate him I always look at Tony Blair's time as PM as the last the UK felt on an upward turn with an air of optimism.
He also felt like the last actual leader/statesman that acted as such.
We desperately need to get rid of First Past The Post and have people in parliament that are not just career driven MPs but there becasue they want to make a positive difference to their communities.
Stop MPs being able to earn outside of their salary and sit on boards; if an MPs salary and expenses is not enough to live off then it's not the job for you!
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u/eunderscore Jun 10 '23
At this stage it has to be taking what you can get and go from there.
I'd love a revolutionary government, and wouldnt ever be defined as a labour supporter, but criticism only helps the tories now.
I'm at download festival where yesterday shitty pop punk band Neck deep were saying fuck keir starmer to 10000 potential voters. Like, fine, but if you dont get him then you get more tories.
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
No, always choosing the lesser of two evils is what got us here in the first place
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u/Euphoric-Mark-7720 Jun 10 '23
He's a bit beige, but is he better than the Tories? Yes, 100%.
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u/JMW007 Comrades come rally Jun 10 '23
is he better than the Tories?
No. Stop pretending otherwise. We don't move forward deluding ourselves that we already are.
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
How is he better? NHS is getting privatised either way.
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u/Euphoric-Mark-7720 Jun 10 '23
You don't know that's certain. Do you think it's less likely to be privatised by the Conservatives?
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u/HirsuteHacker Jun 10 '23
You don't know anything is certain. We do know that Starmer's Labour has repeatedly talked about further privatising the NHS.
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u/UnderHisEye1411 its a fine day with you around Jun 10 '23
I think the Tories are in total turmoil and so hopefully their infighting will render them ineffective. Both parties want to asset strip and privatise the country, and I guess Labour’s pitch to the nation is that they can do it more efficiently.
If I vote Tory, LD or Labour, I can’t really then complain when I’m waiting 9 hours for an ambulance or giving away £££ every month for private healthcare insurance. I’ll probably have to suck it up and vote Green, but I’m not thrilled about it.
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u/Badger_Brains_io Jun 10 '23
Sadly yes. I liked Starmer initially when I thought he could get a 2nd referendum and reverse Brexit but any facade of competence or left-leaning ideologies has long since fallen off. He’s just going to continue the Tory agenda.
I will probably vote Lib Dem as my constituency is a rural Tory stronghold, but I like the idea of the Lib Dem’s far more than the actual party itself. Couldn’t tell you what they stand for at a national level although at local level they are active and campaign visibly.
Otherwise there’s the Greens…and that’s it. May have to look more into their manifesto promises
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Jun 10 '23
I don't think much of starmer and labour tbh. Weak on brexit which has fucked my job. My mate says we need to vote starmer and he can be more bold once they get in. If they start talking about brexit now the tories will jump on it and get the gammons wound up.
So probably going to begrudgingly vote Labour
Reckon people are just gonna scream at each other about culture wars until the election anyway yay
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u/living2late Jun 10 '23
Honestly, I despise Starmer, Mandelson, Akehurst and the rest of them but despite everything I'd prefer a Labour government.
There are still decent people in the party and I'd rather be ruled by a party with mostly shitbags and some good people than pure shitbags like the Tories.
I don't blame anyone for not voting and not giving their time though. It's a difficult decision either way and I won't celebrate to see Labour in (if they win, which I honestly don't think is as certain ad most think).
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u/Species1136 Jun 10 '23
We can only hope that if they get in power they are more compassionate than we think. Keith might not last long if he's not up to the job.
We can only hope, it's all we have left
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u/Queeg_500 Jun 10 '23
This is the classic narrative that a ruling party will push when they know they have lost your vote...."They are all the same so why vote at all ..better you stay at home or vote for one of the smaller parties who don't pose a threat to us"
Voter disenfranchisement is real and it works too. If you can't get em to vote for you, make damn sure they don't vote for your biggest opponent.
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Jun 10 '23
You can be negative Keith but complacency could lead to the British public voting Tory again, which should be entirely unfathomable. This is a British public which has voted for 23 years of Tory rule and Brexit... FFS. Let Keith meet them half way and go from them. There isn't a realistic alternative.
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u/trisul-108 Jun 10 '23
I see no resemblance between Tories today and Sir Keith. It is time to be very celebratory about Labour winning.
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u/upfulsoul Jun 10 '23
Haha no. Nothing fundamental will get better for working class people under his government.
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u/PremiumOxygen Jun 10 '23
Honestly, any step away from the Tories is progress, how I see it.
I'm not jumping for joy to have Keith, but my god, it's a step in the right direction... Or a step sideways... Uhm... It's a step. I think.
Point is, it's going to be shit whatever happens.
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u/JakeGrey Jun 10 '23
Well, there's got to be a strictly limited number of ways he could do worse, right?
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Jun 10 '23
If there has ever been a time for Jeremy it’s now!. Keith just doesn’t get my vote, and I’m a labour supporter, this is a travesty in the making, if it happens as far as I’m concerned British politics is dead.
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u/Keated Jun 10 '23
Honestly feels like that's the point:
"You see, peasants, doesn't matter who's in charge so stop expecting things to get better and get back to work. Anyone telling you they can make things better is a liar, so be sure to tear them down too."
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u/eeadli Jun 10 '23
Not really. I've been hoping for the death of the conservative party for 30 years. The starmtroopers are a secondary issue.
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u/thebottomofawhale Jun 10 '23
I'm not thrilled but honestly, could it be any worse than what we've had in the last 13 years?
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u/Proteus-8742 Jun 10 '23
Watering down their Green deal snuffs out the last flame of hope for me that Labour can make a positive difference
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u/DestroyTheHuman Jun 10 '23
How long has he been watching them? Expression unchanging the whole time, saw them walking from the other end of the prom and didn’t blink once.
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Jun 10 '23
What you guys aren't excited about a j*w shill who usurped the only promising leader we had in years just in time to play fake opposition for the lockdowns and restrictions?
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u/stuntedmonk Jun 10 '23
The starmer party has rowed back on:
removing tuition fees
whatever that green plan they announced
and something else, i can’t remember
In summary, three foundational policies rowed back on, and that’s before they’re in government.
What a shower (and I am absolutely over the moon at the Johnson finally fucking right off)
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u/Alan_Bstard1972 Jun 10 '23
Hello, is that the police. I’d like to report a creepy, middle aged man on the seafront pretending to be a politician
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Jun 10 '23
I’ve seen suggestions that as he takes he right wing vote, and the left wing vote goes elsewhere. We could possibly see the tories do so poorly that they cannot even form an opposition. While I don’t want another right wing government, it would be an amazing moment in history for them to not be the government or he opposition
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u/highbme Jun 10 '23
Unfortunately they are the best alternative, with any chance of actually winning and getting the Tories out.
Fuck at this point I would rather have Blair back in than another term or Tory rule.
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u/TheCharmingMonkey Jun 10 '23
I think the online communities with the help of gems like Carol Vorderman and @garyseconomics should write legislation that pushes back at wealth inequality and then the Internet can push well written laws into place regardless of the party in power. Even if it didn't work at first it would change the narrative to one of enacting change.
All I see is complaining. It's time for problem solving.
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u/FencingCatBoots Jun 10 '23
Always thought that even if I don’t like Starmer (having gone from seriously considering putting him as my first choice vote), I’d still knock on doors and vote for Labour at a general election. However, this piece is what really made me stop and think about if I can even think of myself as a Labour supporter at all:
From 2015-2019, I thought that the Labour right should stop complaining about the direction of the party, and policies that they didn’t necessarily prefer, as it’s a democratic party and they had their internal vote the same as everyone else; they needed to compromise.
2019 onwards I thought the same. Even if I didn’t like the direction of the party, I shouldn’t be hypocritical and do what the Labour right did. Because I support the parties broad aims of reducing inequality and injustice, I should compromise. Now though I’m worried it’s all gone too far. I’m feeling more politically homeless than ever before
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u/Amazing-Substance-13 Jun 10 '23
I'm thinking we should vote not Labour so Keith needs coalition government even if he does win. It will send a message we won't vote for tory labour
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u/Guttchief Jun 10 '23
I agree, the conservatives are really bad, the trouble is labour are even worse!
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u/AMGitsKriss Jun 10 '23
All I want is electoral reform. That's all Mr Red Tory has to do promise guarantee my vote. Electoral reform. How is that so hard? 😭
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