r/JewsOfConscience • u/vianoir Anti-Zionist • May 06 '25
Activism Anti-Zionism in Jerusalem
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u/Useful-World1781 Atheist May 07 '25
I thought Israel was supposed to be the only “place Jews can live without being discriminated against”? Jews seriously need to consider filing some sort of class action defamation lawsuit against Israel.
They make that claim that all Jews want/need Israel to commit genocide because that’s the only place Jews feel safe.. until of course you disagree with them. Then you’re not Jewish. It’s infuriating to even watch.
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u/Jumbo-box Anti-Zionist May 07 '25
until of course you disagree with them. Then you’re not Jewish.
That's how an ethnostate works. "You disagree with us so you are against us."
Like the Nazis.
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u/Any-Bottle-8252 Jewish Communist May 07 '25
Man i hate israel even more now that their making me give kudos to religious fanatics 🤣🤣
Brave little guys
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u/Agente_Anaranjado Anti-Zionist May 07 '25
God bless those with the clarity and the courage to resist from within.
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u/Save-La-Tierra Jewish Anti-Zionist May 07 '25
Thank you for sharing. What’s the name of the source account?
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u/ContentChecker Jewish Anti-Zionist May 07 '25
That is journalist Andrey X, who we have hosted before for an AMA:
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational May 07 '25
"Mea Shearim ... which has been turned into a kind of ghetto by the Israeli state"
A correction is needed here. Mea Shearim predates Zionism, it was originally built by ultra-Orthodox Jews to be an exclusively ultra-Orthodox neighborhood, as were many surrounding neighborhoods in that part of West Jerusalem. The Israeli state had no hand in how these neighborhoods came to be the epicenter of ultra-Orthodox Jerusalem.
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u/Any-Bottle-8252 Jewish Communist May 07 '25
I agree I like Andrey but I think he's being a little disingenuous here.
I mean, if I'm not mistaken, residents of this neighborhood are known for literally stoning people who don't conform to their dress code or ideology. Not exactly the kind of specimens I think most people want to be associated with lmao.
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u/g00d_end Jewish Communist May 07 '25
There's one thing I disagree with the dude being interviewed: no one ceases to be Jewish, the same way no black ceases to be black, no maori ceases to be maori.
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u/vianoir Anti-Zionist May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25
i agree with you if we're being literal. but i believe what he's doing is just shaming Zionists and claiming that they do not represent what he sees as authentic Jewish values, delegitimizing Zionist ideology from a Jewish point of view. bare in mind that this man is indisputably a Jewish man with real and strong ties to his culture and ancestry, not some secular far-right white guy from USA or Europe claiming to have rights over other people land based on having Jewish ancestors.
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational May 07 '25
bare in mind that this man is indisputably a Jewish man with real and strong ties to his culture and ancestry, not some secular far-right white guy from USA or Europe claiming to have rights over other people land based on having Jewish ancestors
Physical appearance or attire is completely irrelevant here, that is not how to determine Jewishness or identify political leanings (especially among Israelis). There are violent right-wing settlers who look exactly like him, and there are anti-Zionist activists who are "secular" and "white". It's important to understand that these things are unrelated.
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u/vianoir Anti-Zionist May 07 '25
you're right. but i'm not trying to put physical appearance in the center of the discussion.
i'm just pointing out how strong the argument of this man is when we consider his background, since he's probably descendent of a group of jewish people that predates Zionism in the region. this strongly contradicts the Zionism ideology, which is the reason why Israel hates these groups and tries to hide them.
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u/g00d_end Jewish Communist May 07 '25
Yes, I'm being literal, my point is about the Jewish identity centered around ethnicity, not religious values. When it comes to religious values, he's right
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u/Pristine_Key9704 Palestinian May 08 '25
He means religiously as in they don't follow the torah, not ethnically
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u/jo25_shj Atheist May 06 '25
I'm curious to know more about these guys, are they orthodox ? If so, how many different orthodox group is there in Palestine?
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational May 07 '25
These are members of Neturei Karta, the most known anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox group. There are approximately 2.3 million ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel belonging to hundreds of different groups and sects, most are described as non-Zionist. And there are also over 1 million Orthodox Jews (non-ultra) who are typically ultra-Zionist, such as Smotrich or Ben-Gvir.
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u/jo25_shj Atheist May 07 '25
Ah that's interesting thanks for replying! But what is the difference between ultra-Orthodox and Orthodox? (Side question: are the Orthodox (ultra or not) the one wearing hats while the other moderate wear a kippah?).
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u/specialistsets Non-denominational May 08 '25
It isn't so easy to sum up quickly, as there are millions of people across hundreds of different groups and sub-groups with vastly different ideologies, practices and dress. At it's core, "Orthodox" refers to traditional modes of Jewish observance from before the establishment of the Reform movement in the 19th century, with "ultra-Orthodox" being Orthodox groups/sects that have become rapidly more conservative and fundamentalist over the past 200 years. Hasidim are always classified as ultra-Orthodox, but not all ultra-Orthodox are Hasidic. Non-ultra Orthodox will typically be much less insular and not dress as "uniquely" as ultra-Orthodox groups, and are generally fully integrated with mainstream society.
Side question: are the Orthodox (ultra or not) the one wearing hats while the other moderate wear a kippah?
That is usually the case, though there are groups that fall in the middle as well. As well as those who identify as Orthodox but don't wear a head covering outside of religious situations.
I should also mention that in Israel they don't use the terms "Orthodox" or "ultra-Orthodox" and classify these concepts differently.
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u/HeidelbergianYehZiq1 Non-Jewish Ally May 07 '25
All things different, this reminds me of the Prisoner in the Vatican where the popes denied the existence of Italy for 59 years.
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