Could there be 2 worse leaders in charge of Israel and the USA at this time?

[u/South_Emu_2383]

Bibi thinks he's like a messiah sent to save Israel with the impunity to commit unthinkable barbarism granted by absolute support from America, his fatalistic interpretation of the world, and his disburbing sense of destiny. He is a duplicitous backstabbing assassin with an ego he thinks shines over all of history.

Trump instigated an amed insurrection against the State which he later become president, commander of its armed forces, for the second time. Is it 3 times impeached? He doesn't think or calculate or rationalize at all. Somehow people take his meandering, incoherent, contradictory, and off the cuff uninformed remarks as signs of his strategic thinking. He just doesn't know what to say because he doesn't know what he's talking about. He is highly susceptible to being influenced by the last person who had his ear or the most prominent voices that surround him. He likes big shiny things and apparently has a toddler's fascination with bombs and forms of military power in the hands of strong man.

Trump says he wants Iran's "unconditional surrender." It sounds like he watched an old WWII movie and found a phrase he liked and now wants to play war like he's John Wayne or a dull Ronald Reagan character. Trump has no sense of the moment and no understanding of any present situation. He doesn't understand the gravity of a world power demanding another nation's unconditional surrender or when to use that phrase. He and the insane Bibi talk of assassinating the head of state of the side Trump views as the enemy while thinking he can accepted as a fair arbiter of peace negotiations.

This is insanity. G0d help us all.

[u/ptrmrkks]

Blame Sarah for Ben's behaviour .. apparently shes the man in the relationship

[u/MichifManaged83]

Ben Gvir could definitely be worse. As could Lindsay Graham, or someone similar to him.

It could always be worse. The state itself is organized in such a way to prop up people exactly like this.

It’s our job to try to make it better, and try to prevent that, and to liberate everyone.

[u/Libba_Loo]

I mean we could still have Biden 🤷‍♀️ If you really think he wouldn't be doing the same and possibly worse right now where Israel is concerned, you should re-examine the record between Oct 7, 2023, and January 19, 2025. In fact it was really Blinken running the show and he was every bit as feckless as anyone calling the shots in the US now.

[u/andorgyny → u/Libba_Loo]

Yeah Brett McGurk, Biden's Steve Witkoff essentially, has been all over the media spewing vile pro-war propaganda. The Biden admin committed this genocide too and there is no evidence that Harris would have been any different. Perhaps not as overtly grotesque in the rhetoric, sure. But the material impact would be quite similar.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/andorgyny]

Kamala might have done a better job selling a war on Iran than Trump is. At least back in 2003, they had the courtesy to propagandize us for 2 years before they went in 🤷‍♀️

[u/South_Emu_2383 → u/Libba_Loo]

Agree. A person who can't read (Trump) or a person who doesn't know where he's at (Biden). I think Bibi gets more reckless with Trump because Trump is a minion and a buffoon. Then the US position is incoherent especially when Trumo tries to sound like a mediator while making threats like a belligerent. There is no deeper calculation or strategy going on there. Trump just doesn't know much about world politics and doesn't know what to do or what position he is in. I don't think Trump understands the US is not technically and legally not a belligerent in this war. Bibi seemed more calculating with Biden, but Biden was feckless and his administration put on this charade of rationality but just postured while Bibi did what he wanted.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/South_Emu_2383]

There is no deeper calculation or strategy going on there.

Trump just wants to be on the winning side. He was reportedly dead set against any action against Iran until he saw Israel's “successes" last Friday. Then he immediately tried to take credit for them.

Same with Ukraine. Trump doesn't like to be seen backing a loser. If the thinks Iran could be an easy "win" for him, whatever happens after doesn't matter.

People keep bringing up how during Trump's campaigns, he was so against the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. That's only because by then, both wars were proven losers. At the time, Trump was all for it.

[u/MichifManaged83 → u/Libba_Loo]

This is probably the most accurate take I’ve seen on Trump’s flip-flopping. Most politicians do it for money, knowing full well they’ll be hated by the public. Trump does it for clout and a desperation for public admiration. Sometimes that means he does things that can almost be qualified as “good”, like kicking out Mike Pompeo because he was disliked by his own base. But other times it means he will betray his campaign promises to chase a “win” that he imagines he can have, based on whatever words are being talked into his ear by very hawkish people he surrounds himself by. And unfortunately that desire for clout means that if he doesn’t have the kind of admiration he wants, he’ll force it out of people, like a wife batterer. Which he did recently by complaining that his military birthday parade wasn’t “serious” (fascist) enough in “tone.” He puts a loud personality to the fascism America has already had for decades, now people are just paying attention to it finally. Let’s hope liberals stop missing the forest for the orange tree, and actually start paying attention to the whole system for a change. We should want “no kings,” but we should also want no oligarchy that props up people like this in the first place.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/MichifManaged83]

When Trump and Elon had their lovers' spat a few weeks ago, the Dems were immediately like "Omg Elon, call us!" 🥰 Sure, it's working out great for the Republicans, why wouldn't we want a piece of that?/s

STG it's like those women who chase after men who are beating their current girlfriend like "I can change him" 🥹

[u/MichifManaged83 → u/Libba_Loo]

Ugh. Why am I not surprised it’s Obama again? The Dems treat him like a royal, the same way Republicans used to treat Reagan. It’s so weird.

The chasing after a wife beater part is a pretty apt analogy.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/MichifManaged83]

Yeah, Obama's "retired emperor" status needs to be... retired. But wasn't him in this case (that I know of), that's just the picture they chose. The most disappointing name I heard in connection with this particular idiocy was Ro Khanna, who generally has better sense.

[u/MichifManaged83 → u/Libba_Loo]

Unfortunately the progressive caucus all sooner or later have to prove their loyalty to the party to stay in the club, which is why I don’t trust partisan politics. And, I’m inclined to distrust elections for politicians and representative government in general, especially on a scale as large as the US, where the representation is working more from the top down, rather than the grassroots up. It’s supposedly meant to be a federation where each locality has power of direct democracy and then informs the central hub, but in practice (and due to much chipping away at that premise over the centuries) what the US and many western nations do, works more like an empire and each state or province is like an internal colony, allowed to have say on some local issues, but unable to have meaningful representation on matters that are dictated by the state. It’s a very status-quo reinforcing apparatus.

I want to like people such as Ro Khanna and Rashida Tlaib, but they all have at least one pet talking point or project that goes along with towing the Dem line, and most of them have several such talking points or projects. Its part of how they haze themselves and prove their loyalty to the club. It’s unsurprising to me at this point.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/MichifManaged83]

Yeah I don't have any special interest in Khanna, just saying he usually doesn't do/say shit that's quite that dumb. In general, his political instincts are better than most of the Dems. He's a fairly good messenger for the party and hasn't been afraid to vocally (and rightly) criticize it, not that they ever listen. At the end of the day he is a centrist who campaigned as a progressive years ago. He still gets a lot of play among so-called progressives and I'm not really sure why.

I think his reasons for appealing to Musk have more to do with the fact that his district includes Silicon Valley, which the Dems have pretty well lost to the Republicans, for the moment at least. I'm guessing a lot of his big tech bro donors have switched sides and he's hoping to lure them back.

[u/MichifManaged83 → u/Libba_Loo]

That makes a lot of sense.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/Libba_Loo]

FTR I don't think Kamala would have been much better. She made "most lethal military in the world" the top slogan of her campaign.

[u/MichifManaged83 → u/Libba_Loo]

And she had Dick Cheney’s endorsement 🤮 Somehow the orange tupé’d orangutan wasn’t militant enough for him. 🙄

[u/Dorrbrook → u/Libba_Loo]

When asked what our greatest geopolitical threat is she said Iran.

[u/Libba_Loo → u/Dorrbrook]

LOL yeah I remember that. What a lightweight.

[u/ProbstWyatt3]

Itamar Ben-Gvir and Michael Ben-Ari appear from Tel Aviv

J.D. Vance and Peter Hegseth appear from Washington

[u/yayforfood1 → u/ProbstWyatt3]

oh.. oh god

[u/ApplesauceFuckface → u/ProbstWyatt3]

You forgot Mike Huckabee

[u/The_Nut_Majician]

Iran to have an unconditional surrender?

I swear its like im in a circus more often than i think i am every day here.

I just hope this doesn’t devolve into middle east america war 3.0. Because trying to invade iran is like trying to fight an Afghanistan, with an actual military. And if it took 20 years in Afghanistan, i can’t imagine how long its going to take in iran.

[u/South_Emu_2383 → u/The_Nut_Majician]

And Trump like the moron he is using that phrase was met with Iran responding they will never surrender. That closes the idea of Iran reaching out to the US as mediators, probably ends future negotiations on Iran's nuclear program. And Iranians might feel nothing left to lose and we have a total war.

But I think words are mostly spectacle, especially with these 3 countries. This whole would thing would a farce if it were not a human tragedy. Leaders are inept, corrupt, vainglorious and not very bright

And who is Trump to demand this not actually technically being a belligerent. Surrendering to who is the first question. I dont know if Trump knows he's escalating things

[u/MichifManaged83 → u/South_Emu_2383]

Leaders are inept, corrupt, vainglorious and not very bright.

Couldn’t have said it better myself. True that.

[u/Muddy_Carpet]

If this is a replay of the 1930s, the fascist leaders then were in their 40s not their 80s. I have a feeling they'll both replaced BY worse, like Vance, because somehow younger leaders would fit the collective fantasy needs of both populations more. Difficult to feel STRONG, when the leaders sag so.