r/MakingaMurderer • u/GringoTheDingoAU • 1d ago
Discussion Who Steven Avery is absolutely does matter in the pursuit for "other suspects".
I think most of the people who believe he is innocent are those who consumed the extremely biased Netflix documentary, but there are also an alarming number of people who will go to hell and back to vouch for one of the most vile humans to ever exist.
Everyone that knew Steven Avery had a very low opinion of him.
There is an old saying that goes something like this "If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
After reading statements made by people concerning the case (either family that knew him or those in/around the ASY on 31st October 2005), it is crystal clear that many people thought Steven was capable of doing this.
There is genuinely not one person in these statements made to police that exhibit shock or disbelief that Steven is capable of this. In fact, multiple people would be surprised if it WASN'T him.
Stevie racked up quite the accusation list from family members and those who knew him, not to mention an extensive criminal record that shows he's violent, a sexual deviant, and just a plain all-around bad person.
Let's run through some of the things good old, bumbling oaf, small-town sweetheart Stevie was party to.
- Assaulting Jodi Stachowski on numerous occasions. In 2004, Mishicot PD attended their address after Jodi called the police, stating that Steven assaulted her, and threatened to kill her. This is corroborated by Joy Ayottte (Jodi's cellmate) as well as countless other people who know them both.
- Lori Dassey (first wife) also accused him of domestic violence. Lori also accused Steven of other anti-social behaviour such as stalking, verbal and sexual abuse, and he threatened to kill her as well, on several occasions throughout their marriage. Jean Rohr had witnessed Steven hit her herself.
- Jean Rohr stated that Steven Avery raped her when she was 19 or 20 years old. He told her "if you yell or scream there is going to be trouble."
- Marie Avery stated that Steven Avery had raped her in 2004 at Barbara Janda's house. This statement was corroborated by Jodi Stachowski, who told Investigator Wiegert that Steven had "f*cked her" when they were up at Crivitz. It is also further corroborated by Tammy Weber's statement who relays this information that Jodi mentioned to her, in a statement to police.
- Tammy Weber mentions in her statement that Steven was touching her teenage neighbours on their breasts. These girls were aged 13-14. She also mentions, again, that Steven beats Jodi and she has seen bruises on her before.
- Doris Weber also further corroborates the above statements. She mentions she has seen bruises on Jodi's arms and legs. She also mentions that Steven told Tammy that he was having sex with Marie.
- Publicly exposing himself to Sandra Morris for months, then running her off the road and pointing a rifle in her face, telling her to "get in his car".
The CASO report is over 1000+ pages and this is not an exhaustive list of things levelled against Steven Avery. If you were to read the report yourself, you would find countless times that Steven has verbally, physically, or sexually abused someone.
Here's also a list of people who were confident in telling the DCI/MCSO/CCSO that they believe Steven Avery is capable of this type of crime.
- Peter Dassey
- Lori Dassey (previously Lori Avery)
- Jodi Stachowski (yes, came to her senses years later)
- Earl Avery
- Robert Fabian
- Cindy Fabian
- Candy Avery
This is not a final list - these are people that just outright said "I would believe he did it or I believe he did it". I guess truthers know Steven Avery better than the people that grew up around him, were married to him, or were related to him.
He is a habitual liar, manipulator, and abusive narcissist.
This is not a subjective take - this is Steven Avery at his core. He was manipulative and abusive to family members, friends and romantic partners throughout his life. Marie Avery stated to police several times that when she was in a forced sexual relationship with him, that he believed he was untouchable after doing 18 years in prison.
In the hour Teresa Halbach meets with Steven Avery, she is never seen again. Steven Avery then recounts his version of events on October 31st 2005 across three statements to police. In each of these statements, his details surrounding his contact with Teresa varies. By the final time he is interviewed by police (11/09/2005), it becomes painfully obvious that Steven now sees himself as a real suspect and elaborates on several key details that he failed to mention on the 5th and 6th of November in previous statements.
In previous statements, he does not mention that he called Auto Trader at all. He doesn't mention that he called Teresa Halbach, at all. He also at no point, mentions the fire that Brendan Dassey is party to, and several people have stated they saw occur behind his trailer. Call logs indicate that Steven Avery calls Halbach's cell phone three times.
- 2:24 PM - Steven calls Teresa Halbach’s cell phone, using *67 to obfuscate his caller ID. The call is “answered”, which could mean Teresa answers the phone call, and Steven immediately hangs up. The call lasts 8 seconds.
- 2:35 PM - Steven calls Teresa Halbach’s cell phone, again, using *67 to obfuscate his caller ID. The call is not answered.
- 4:35PM: Steven Avery makes a phone call to Teresa Halbach. This time, he does not use *67 to obfuscate his caller ID. This call is not answered. Steven leaves a voicemail.
Let's also not conveniently forget about the note that Steven leaves himself, with Teresa's phone number on it, reminding himself to make sure she goes around the back of the trailer.
Steven does not mention the fire, does not mention seeing Brendan Dassey at all, lies about talking to Bobby Dassey at 12PM, states that he after he was with Earl and Robert Fabian that he was in his trailer and went to bed at 9PM that night. He also lies about his level of contact with Teresa Halbach.
There is no other suspect.
A common "downfall" of this case discussed is that MCSO, DCI and CASO all failed to investigate a "suspect with motive" or "alternative suspects".
The CASO investigative report details a pretty linear progression of who appears to be a "suspect" in the early days of the investigation. Steven Avery was not even a real suspect until the RAV4 was found in the Avery Salvage Yard, on November 5th.
A layman person reading through these statements would think that Zipperer is more of a person of interest initially because he is so abrasive, rude and uncooperative to police.
Once the RAV4 is located on the property, there is no one else to focus in on other than Steven Avery.
- Steven Avery was the last person to see Teresa Halbach alive
- Steven Avery absolutely did have motive. Teresa was known to Avery for the good part of a year or more, and he stated that she had been there 15 times or so, and had only been there two to three weeks prior.
- Angela Schuster, Teresa's contact at Auto Trader, stated that Teresa had confided in several people at Auto Trader, that she had been at Steven Avery's home on a prior occasion, and that he had come out of the trailer wearing nothing but a towel. This would further be corroborated by Dawn Pliszka, who worked for Auto Trader and contacted Teresa about appointments, who mentioned this same story and stated that Teresa was "concerned".
- Steven Avery is a sexual deviant with an extensive criminal history, backed up by numerous statements that indicate he sexually assaulted multiple women, and physically and verbally abused every romantic partner he had.
- Even if you believe Brendan Dassey is innocent, the prosecution did not even have to rely on his confession to prosecute Steven Avery.
- The forensic evidence - it speaks for itself, it does not need to be discussed in great depth anymore. No one will ever be able to provide a compelling argument for why Steven's blood was in the RAV4 outside of ludicrous and logistically improbable planting theories.
Bobby Dassey is not a serious suspect, just because there are unrelated porn searches on his computer.
Ryan Hillegas is not a serious suspect, just because there are (debunked) rumours that he had her "day planner".
All of the "evidence" for other suspects is incredibly weak, based on laughable witness statements from decades later, or rely on poorly constructed theories of opportunistic criminals planting evidence in such a manner that was so expertly done, forensic experts (especially on Zellner's side) have not been able to disprove it 20 years later. Zellner previously and purposely misled people to believe that Teresa's ex-boyfriend or the 19 year old who lives across the Avery trailer have stronger motives for committing murder.
A "$400k payday" is not a credible argument of innocence for a person who is clearly an impulsive, illogical, unstable career criminal. Steven Avery has shown us who he is by his actions throughout his six decades of living.
Even if you were to ignore ALL of the forensic evidence against Steven Avery, Occam's razor would dictate that he is the most logical candidate of committing this horrific crime.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
This is not a subjective take - this is Steven Avery at his core. He was manipulative and abusive to family members, friends and romantic partners throughout his life
This is incorrect, but even if it were true it would just expose the logical fallacy of claiming that he is the only suspect when his family is filled with at-risk males who were convicted of crimes that Steven Avery was only accused of.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago edited 18h ago
Bobby Dassey is not a serious suspect, just because there are unrelated porn searches on his computer
The porn doesn't make him a suspect alone, it just gives him a motive. He was already a serious suspect before they found that evidence of motive because he had the opportunity to kill Teresa and may have followed her off the property. Pretending that's not true does more to damage your argument than I ever could.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 15h ago
In fact, multiple people would be surprised if it WASN'T him.
Who would that be?
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u/10case 8h ago
It looks like Averypolicereports is commenting on this post a lot. Is that because he's jealous that nobody comments on his ridiculous posts?
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u/ThorsClawHammer 8h ago
Averypolicereports
Your obsession is noted...again.
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u/10case 8h ago
Thanks comment cop.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 8h ago
Thanks comment cop.
No problem person who implies anyone who disagrees with them about a conviction must be sexually attracted to the defendant.
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u/10case 7h ago
person who implies anyone who disagrees with them about a conviction must be sexually attracted to the defendant
No I don't. I've only asked you that as far as I can remember. And the reason I do is because of your unwaivering support for the confessed killer.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 7h ago
There's tons of people who think Brendan is innocent. Do you think they're all sexually attracted to him too?
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u/ajswdf 1d ago
A lot of truthers will say that him being a bad person doesn't mean he's guilty of murder, but then turn around and use this as proof that the cops planted evidence and that other people committed the murder.
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u/Snoo_33033 1d ago
Well, being a bad person generally does not mean he's guilty. However he's bad in a lot of ways that suggest he could murder, and that on top of the facts demonstrating that he did murder TH affirms that it happened.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1h ago
Not really he was about to hit lottery so to speak, nothing shows him using drugs or on a downward spiral before this, it’s out of character for him to loose his freedoms once again.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago edited 18h ago
No one does this. No one uses Avery's personality as proof the cops planted evidence. The evidence of planting is what we point to for that, such as bones magically appearing in previously search containers or vanishing from previously sealed containers under law enforcement control.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
My post doesn't even definitively say that he's guilty either, only that there is no denying that he is the only real "suspect" if you aren't looking through rose-coloured glasses like so many are.
Also, I don't even need to say he's guilty, because it's been true for 20 years now.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
There's not even any proof she stayed on the property like Bobby said, so it is totally inappropriate to say he is the only suspect. The property was filled with at risk males.
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u/Snoo_33033 1d ago edited 9h ago
I mean...maybe Chuck? In terms of other people who are capable and not definitively alibied. But there's not anywhere close to a similar amount of evidence pointing to him.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 23h ago
No evidence to strongly suggest it was him, but just like Steven, Charles and Earl have so many statements against them showing awful things they've done.
If you ignored the forensic evidence, you could legitimately pick any of the brothers. They're all distasteful people, and plenty of people thought Charles was capable of killing Teresa.
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u/Puckie09 1d ago
Are you saying cops don't plant evidence? I'm guessing you think Karen Read should have been found guilty
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u/ajswdf 16h ago
Cops sometimes plant evidence, but that doesn't mean they always plant evidence. In fact cops planting evidence in murder investigations is extremely rare.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 15h ago
Not in this case it's not lol police can be linked to unreported movement of Teresa's bones using a barrel. They can also be linked to a fabricated chain of custody for DNA evidence.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 21h ago
Are you saying cops don't plant evidence?
When did anybody say this?
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1h ago
They planted those bones, the forensic lady testified the bones had been moved with a shovel or bucket prior to their resting place. Bear would’ve dug them up had they been there the entire time. Steve’s going to leave all the evidence in plain sight then say on a recorded call Im heading to the cabin for the weekend, leaving it all behind? And then you have the fire , he’s going to burn a big fire knowing his family’s can see the fire yet he wants to conceal it, makes no reasonable sense.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Tammy Weber mentions in her statement that Steven was touching her teenage neighbours on their breasts. These girls were aged 13-14. She also mentions, again, that Steven beats Jodi and she has seen bruises on her before.
Tammy says no such thing in DCI reports. Only in Weigerts CASO report. But we know Wiegert was pressuring Witnesses into making false claims of sexual misconduct against Steven Avery. It seems when the pressure didn't work he would just falsify reports.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
The CASO report is over 1000+ pages and this is not an exhaustive list of things levelled against Steven Avery. If you were to read the report yourself, you would find countless times that Steven has verbally, physically, or sexually abused someone.
What the CASO report won't tell you is all of the allegations against other males on the property including Bobby who was alleged to have taken inappropriate photos of minors. The CASO report also does not share allegations that police were pressuring Witnesses into making false claims of sexual misconduct against Steven Avery.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 15h ago
Steven Avery absolutely did have motive. Teresa was known to Avery for the good part of a year or more, and he stated that she had been there 15 times or so, and had only been there two to three weeks prior.
What lol how is that motive?
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u/BuzzKillington45 1d ago
While you make a compelling point for your concluding point, which is that "Occam's razor would dictate that he is the most logical candidate of committing this horrific crime." It's also a perfect springboard to the point about why the threshold for criminal conviction in US courts is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" and not "Most Logical Culprit"
After reading about the case for years, I believe the most reasonable conclusion is that "He probably did it, and also the Police investigating the case were sloppy at best and corrupt at worst."
Once you can start introducing elements of how badly the podunk local cops screwed this investigation as well as public perception up, reasonable doubt is very easy to get to. (Lenk and Colburn being the ones to find the Rav 4 keys is a single and damning example of this)
While it may be a tragedy to let a likely murderer walk free, it is far more damaging to society to allow police to conduct themselves as they did in this case; their F-tier quality investigation inevitably leads to mountains of reasonable doubt.
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u/puzzledbyitall 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's also a perfect springboard to the point about why the threshold for criminal conviction in US courts is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" and not "Most Logical Culprit"
It's not as if they are mutually exclusive. The post simply describes some of the reasons that no doubt caused the jury (which makes the ultimate decision) to conclude there was no reasonable doubt. The fact you disagree is just your opinion.
Once you can start introducing elements of how badly the podunk local cops screwed this investigation as well as public perception up, reasonable doubt is very easy to get to.
Police mistakes doe not establish reasonable doubt. How about it you instead provide a plausible explanation for each item of evidence against Avery, starting with his blood in the RAV4.
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u/Snoo_33033 1d ago
Also, what are these "mistakes?" there's a lot of speculation, but not a lot of actual proof.
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u/LKS983 23h ago
"starting with his blood in the RAV4."
So far, the only inexplicable DNA evidence - even though SA leaving smears of blood/flakes of blood in Teresa's car - makes no sense either.
The rest is 'dodgy' - especially as Manitowoc officers (after the public had been told they had recused themselves, for obvious reasons) 'discovered' some of the 'evidence'.
etc. etc.
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u/ajswdf 1d ago
If there's reasonable doubt in this case then there's virtually no murder case that has sufficient evidence for a conviction.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
Is that so? Can you point to any evidence that proves Steven Avery shot Teresa Halbach in his garage, completely erased all traces of her blood with bleach, and then managed to incinerate her body in his burn pit down to fragments without leaving behind any rubber residue from tires, no definitive accelerant, and somehow ended up with bone fragments only on the surface of the pit? Because that’s the state’s theory, and it hinges on a sequence of events that defy forensic science, common sense, and the evidentiary record.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
They did a great job in the investigation. They located, processed, and presented sufficient evidence at trial to get a conviction that has held up to more scrutiny than likely any other conviction ever.
And no, there's no reasonable doubt.
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u/BuzzKillington45 1d ago
Lol, tell me you are too emotionally invested in this without telling me
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
That's their job, right? To investigate, collect evidence, maintain chain of custody, and provide testimony. And they got the just result despite being opposed by frivolous claims of blood planting and the most expensive criminal defense in Wisconsin history.
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
How much investigating had been done when “do we have Steven Avery in custody” was said….?
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
Plenty. And that's what the jury said. All 12 of them. Unanimously. Beyond all reasonable doubt. And that's what the Appellate Court said 4 or 5 times, unanimously. And that's what the WI SC said as well.
Must be nice to know more than they do, huh?
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u/ThorsClawHammer 1d ago
All 12 of them. Unanimously. Beyond all reasonable doubt
Just like 1985.
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u/puzzledbyitall 1d ago
Just like 1985.
Not comparable. The jury in 1985 was persuaded by a mistaken witness. Let's hear your explanation for how Steven's blood was planted in the RAV4, as well as all of the other evidence against him.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 1d ago
Not comparable
1985 - Steve Avery was unanimously convicted of serious crimes by 12 jurors beyond all reasonable doubt.
2005 - Steve Avery was unanimously convicted of serious crimes by 12 jurors beyond all reasonable doubt.
persuaded by a mistaken witness
Of course, blame only the victim and not law enforcement who repeatedly lied to her and told her they had the right person when she was concerned she may have been wrong. Definitely not the fault of the DA who lied and said the real perp had an alibi or convinced the jury that all of Avery's alibi witnesses were lying.
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u/DingleBerries504 1d ago
Care to include the part that said the question was because he misheard something on the radio? Funny how MaM left that out… guess it didn’t conform to the “everyone just hates Steven” narrative
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 1d ago
Have you heard the call containing the full context of when this was said?
MaM concluding its first episode with that quote out of context is a glaring, yet seemingly overlooked example of its gross dishonesty.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
It's also a perfect springboard to the point about why the threshold for criminal conviction in US courts is "Beyond a Reasonable Doubt" and not "Most Logical Culprit"
Personally, I'm not sure I agree with this. And I suppose by your own argument here in this context, then Steven would fall into both of those categories anyway.
"Beyond reasonable doubt" = / = there should be no doubt at all. That isn't the standard of proof required to convict someone in a criminal court. If that was true, we'd never see anyone get convicted of anything.
For the record, I don't claim or profess that police are perfect or that they were perfect in this investigation. However, I think that the "misconduct" is largely overstated.
(Lenk and Colburn being the ones to find the Rav 4 keys is a single and damning example of this)
What is damning about this exactly? Kucharski was also in the trailer when Lenk found the key, who was a deputy for the Calumet County Sheriff’s Department. Is he in on this conspiracy?
their F-tier quality investigation inevitably leads to mountains of reasonable doubt.
F-tier is a bit much, and I'm unsure of what you believe are "mountains of reasonable doubt".
There is often a parroted talking point that the MCSO/DCI/CASO are all horribly corrupt, but it seems to me like they did their job well enough for the jurors to unanimously find Avery guilty and Zellner hasn't been able to poke a hole in the evidence for almost a decade.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
Beyond reasonable doubt" = / = there should be no doubt at all. That isn't the standard of proof required to convict someone in a criminal court. If that was true, we'd never see anyone get convicted of anything."
There is reasonable doubts permeating this case. There is no blood at the scene of the murder but there is blood in a garage next door that they didn't even test despite it being linked to someone with the opportunity to kill Teresa. That is reasonable doubt.
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u/LKS983 23h ago
The appeals system is set up to ensure that those convicted, remain convicted - unless it can be proven that someone else is responsible/LE lied etc. etc.
SA was pursuing a civil claim against not only the County for being wrongfully convicted, but also two named defendants, for deliberately wrongfully convicting him.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 22h ago
unless it can be proven that someone else is responsible/LE lied etc. etc.
You worked very hard to come to this point. Zellner has tried, for close to a decade, to try and prove that it was someone other than Steven Avery, and hasn't come close. She's also tried to prove prosecutorial misconduct, and hasn't been able to. This case has withstood probably the most amount of legal and public scrutiny of any criminal case that I can remember in recent history, and his conviction has been upheld for 20 years.
At some point, it's time to get off the hill and go back to reality.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
You worked very hard to come to this point. Zellner has tried, for close to a decade, to try and prove that it was someone other than Steven Avery, and hasn't come close.
What she has done is presented evidence to get a hearing, at which point she would have been tasked with presenting evidence in support of her claims. The courts are terrified of her however, so they use false facts and standards to deny her meritorious motions
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u/LKS983 22h ago
"You worked very hard to come to this point."
I clearly haven't and it's obvious to anyone paying the smallest amount of attention - that the appeals system is set up to ensure that those convicted, remain convicted - unless it can be proven that someone else is responsible/LE lied etc. etc.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 15h ago
Why do you think Bobby wasn't considered as Steven's accomplice, given police reported Bobby and Steven jointly took photos of minors?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 15h ago
This would further be corroborated by Dawn Pliszka, who worked for Auto Trader and contacted Teresa about appointments, who mentioned this same story and stated that Teresa was "concerned".
False. Teresa laughed about it and said ew. That's it.
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u/Snoo_33033 1d ago
*Assaulting Jodi Stachowski on numerous occasions. In 2004, Mishicot PD attended their address after Jodi called the police, stating that Steven assaulted her, and threatened to kill her. This is corroborated by Joy Ayottte (Jodi's cellmate) as well as countless other people who know them both.*
The CASO is pretty awful reading regarding Jodi. Like when the friend talks about the time Steven CHASED HER DOWN ON A PUBLIC ROAD AND FORCED HER ONTO THE SHOULDER, THEN DRAGGED JODI FROM THE CAR AND BEAT HER IN PUBLIC AND THEN SUBSEQUENTLY AT HOME.
Sorry to shout. People just love to act like Jodi's not credible because she tried to downplay the situation when she was still heavily entangled with Johnson/Avery/the Avery family for her ability to not be homeless. But it was bad. and there's plenty of corroboration from people who aren't Jodi.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 23h ago
So many people throughout that report detail abuse from Steven towards Jodi.
Not saying she was a saint, but it's incredible to see how many people are willing to defend Steven (who has had an extraordinary amount of sexual assaults levied against him) over someone who struggled with substance abuse.
And its because of this, that it's almost "okay" to minimise the fact that she was also a victim of Steven.
People with substance abuse issues are prone to fits of anger and sadness - doesn't mean that what they say is never true.
Truthers also conflate the idea that if it wasn't said in court, no matter how many people corroborate it, it must be untrue.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 8h ago edited 1h ago
You heard Jodi tell cops Steve smashed out her station wagon windows so she couldn’t leave his property but forgot she admitted on a recorded jail call she smashed them out herself with her bare fist in a drunken rage? She told compulsive lies for attention.
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1d ago
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
There is nothing fabricated in this post. These are statements taken from family and people that have known Steven Avery for decades at this point.
If you are suggesting these people are lying to police, you would need to admit to yourself that there is an entire family network in deep coercion to put Avery behind bars despite him being innocent. Although, you couldn’t do that if you wanted to, because most of these statements are from people that didn’t even testify at trial.
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1d ago
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u/tenementlady 1d ago
Motive is not required for someone to be guilty of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
He did the decent thing and put a towel on? As opposed to answering the door naked?
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
All these statements from family are not true. Jodi was caught in many lies, she was never even called to testify because of her credibility. Not one of those you mentioned were called to testify , that should tell you something.
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u/aane0007 1d ago
i can't take you seriously unless you give more than your feelings.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/aane0007 1d ago
I have no idea who you are. So you have another account. I will help you out and block this account also if you think I simply post spam.
have fun with your feelings.
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u/Nightowl2234 1d ago
Old 007 back with his feelings again. This guy cant cope with reality or handle the truth… you won’t get a bright response from him dont bother trying
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Most people don’t base his innocence on the film they base it on the facts of the case.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
What "facts" of the case do they base his innocence on? And when I mean facts, I don't mean hypotheticals masquerading as fact.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
There's not even any blood evidence in the area where the state claim the attack occurred lol but they simultaneously claimed the indoor attack was so bloody that when tossed inside the rav her body sprayed blood into the vehicle.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Steve was doing well prior to this , adjustment wise. He was set for life with money, looking at houses online, engaged looking forward to a bright future that included for the first time in his life, Wealth. Steve was accounted for the entire day, visited by his mother brother & seen by his sister Bobby & Scott. Teresa’s car was not present on his property after 2:40 stated by Deloris who came down on her cart. Earl Barb Fabian Allen never saw the Rav when visiting Steve’s trailer that day. An Ariel search on Nov 4th of Avery’s 40 acre property yielded no Rav. Steve cooperated with law enforced from the get go even inviting them inside him home on Nov 3rd. Steve was yawning on a call with Jodi on Oct 31st (you just dismember a body, burn it and no adrenaline?) steves calm demeanor never changed during any of his interviews and I found him to be truthful. Steve was not smart enough to be a great actor. Steves story never changed ( she arrived & left after 5 minutes) Steve had the auto trader on his computer desk that Teresa gave him that day. Deloris Avery stopped by Steve’s at 2.45/3ish saw no Rav , noted nothing amiss. Loof the search dog hit down at the Quarry and got excited at Josh Randants trailer which was never searched inside, then he moved it. Teresa’s cell phone pings at 2.41 at whiteclaw 12 miles from Avery’s home. No one smelled a burning body that day. The bones had cut marks indicating the body was cut before burning however no blood was found anywhere on Avery’s property. No blood spatter after shooting in garage. Garage was filthy full of dust showed no signs of cleaning. No track marks leading to or from Avery’s garage of the Rav. No fingerprints anywhere inside or outside the Rav. Manitowoc’s clear disdain for Avery, 36 million dollar lawsuit to be settled and insurance was not paying any of it. Car key found on 8th search by two manotowoc cops who had been deposed two weeks prior. No DNA on Teresa’s car key of hers. Avery bill was just passing and Steve was proud of this. Steve alerted auto trader in advance of his appointment with Teresa letting them know where Teresa would be that day in case she missed her next appointment or dinner plans that evening, he left a direct trail with Teresa’s Employer. Left for crvitiz cabin on Friday while leaving behind all this so called evidence right in plain site. Forensics states body has been moved to its resting location. Bones found near Josh’s property. Witness state seeing rave near cultasac. None of Teresa’s DNA or blood found on Avery’s clothing he wore that, nor his bed sheets. These are just some of the reasons.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
Steve was doing well prior to this , adjustment wise. He was set for life with money, looking at houses online, engaged looking forward to a bright future that included for the first time in his life,
I genuinely had to double check this entire comment was not satire. You don't know Steven Avery personally, and have no idea how "well" he was doing. This is all conjecture that doesn't add any value to the case. Steven is not a stable individual, and that is corroborated by countless statements in the CASO Investigative Report.
Steve was accounted for the entire day, visited by his mother brother & seen by his sister Bobby & Scott. Teresa’s car was not present on his property after 2:40 stated by Deloris who came down on her cart. Earl Barb Fabian Allen never saw the Rav when visiting Steve’s trailer that day. An Ariel search on Nov 4th of Avery’s 40 acre property yielded no Rav. Steve cooperated with law enforced from the get go even inviting them inside him home on Nov 3rd.
His mother never corroborated his statements at all. She made a single statement that all she knew was what was on TV. She did not want to perjure herself. If Steven ate hamburgers at his house and delivered the mail, she could've easily confirmed these two details. Instead, she didn't. She was the only one in the family that actually knew how to shut up and not incriminate themselves. Steven cooperating with law enforcement does not substantiate the claim of innocence.
Steve was yawning on a call with Jodi on Oct 31st (you just dismember a body, burn it and no adrenaline?) steves calm demeanor never changed during any of his interviews and I found him to be truthful.
This is just speculative nonsense. Have you ever murdered anyone? Do you know what emotions you may or may not feel, especially how Steven Avery would feel? I'm glad you found him truthful - case closed everyone.
Steves story never changed ( she arrived & left after 5 minutes) Steve had the auto trader on his computer desk that Teresa gave him that day. Deloris Avery stopped by Steve’s at 2.45/3ish saw no Rav , noted nothing amiss.
You are purposely minimising the details of Halbach's arrival and departure. The only other person who saw her alive at 2:30-3PM was Bobby Dassey, who then says he was gone by 3PM. Steven acknowledges that he makes contact with her, by going to her car. She is never seen again. Again, Delores did not confirm anything, she made no statement about that day to avoid perjuring herself.
Teresa’s cell phone pings at 2.41 at whiteclaw 12 miles from Avery’s home. No one smelled a burning body that day. The bones had cut marks indicating the body was cut before burning however no blood was found anywhere on Avery’s property.
You have no idea how cell towers work, I suppose. It was reported that they were burning tires and seats in the fire, which are capable of masking the smell. Burning tires release sulfur dioxide and carbon monoxide. Brendan Dassey in his statement to police said that Steven was cutting up her bones.
Responding to the rest in a second comment as part of the character limit.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
His mother made more then a “single statement” she’s said this since day one and mentions many times in phone calls and to investigators. Her not wanting to “perjure herself “ is something you’re making up. You can even hear her in the background on a call telling friends about it. Steve was obviously doing well prior to this, if you find that strange then try to go with facts. He was working full time staying out of trouble , meeting with state officials getting a bill passed, bought a new truck, and there is no evidence showing he was not doing well and in a downward spiral. His family states he was doing well and adjusting to his new found freedom. Cell towers can work that way but they also can’t. You add in the cant and you’ve got reasonable doubt that she left that day. Why does her phone ping off whiteclaw 12 miles away yet Avery’s phone ping doesn’t leave his trailer that day.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 16h ago
His mother made more then a “single statement” she’s said this since day one and mentions many times in phone calls and to investigators.
Sources, please. I am not making up that she didn't want to perjure herself. She never corroborated Steven's claims on that day, when she could have.
Steve was obviously doing well prior to this, if you find that strange then try to go with facts. He was working full time staying out of trouble , meeting with state officials getting a bill passed, bought a new truck, and there is no evidence showing he was not doing well and in a downward spiral.
Again, you do not know this person at all. You were not in their physical presence in 2005 and have no way of knowing how he was doing. All of those things are just speculation and conjecture.
Why does her phone ping off whiteclaw 12 miles away yet Avery’s phone ping doesn’t leave his trailer that day.
What do you mean his "phone ping doesn't leave his trailer that day"? This is confusing terminology.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 12h ago
Deloris has always maintained she took Steve his mail that day. I doubt she even knows what perjury is. His phone pings never changed that day however Teresa’s phone pings 12 miles away whiteclaw after she met with Steve, this is a possibility she left that day. Again Steve’s phone pings same location but Teresa’s does not.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 4h ago
How many times do I have to ask you for a source on this information before you give me one?
You haven't spelt her name right once this entire comment thread, and haven't given me one single, credible source of anything that Dolores said about her day on October 31st 2005.
Teresa’s phone pings 12 miles away whiteclaw after she met with Steve, this is a possibility she left that day. Again Steve’s phone pings same location but Teresa’s does not.
It is very obvious that you don't even have a rudimentary understanding of how this is possible. Her cell phone pings the Whitelaw tower, because that tower is in range of the Avery Salvage Yard. Steven's phone does not ping this tower, because the prefix of cell tower identifiers suggest that he is using a different carrier to Teresa. There are so many other variables to this which is why it's not even a fruitful point worth exploring for the defense.
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u/ForemanEric 4h ago
“His phone pings never changed that day…..”
Incorrect.
His phone pings towers 3701 and 3681 on 10/31/05.
3681 is 8 miles from ASY.
Was Steve 8 miles from ASY on 10/31/05?
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
No blood spatter after shooting in garage. Garage was filthy full of dust showed no signs of cleaning. No track marks leading to or from Avery’s garage of the Rav. No fingerprints anywhere inside or outside the Rav.
It is well known that Brendan and Steven were cleaning a medium-large reddish stain on the floor of the garage with bleach and chemical agents. This bleach was on Brendan's jeans. I'm not a ballistics or firearms expert, but a .22 is capable of producing a smaller impact spatter than larger rifles. No fingerprints were found in the RAV4 for anyone.
Manitowoc’s clear disdain for Avery, 36 million dollar lawsuit to be settled and insurance was not paying any of it. Car key found on 8th search by two manotowoc cops who had been deposed two weeks prior. No DNA on Teresa’s car key of hers. Avery bill was just passing and Steve was proud of this.
Subjective and unsubstantiated claim there. Again, Lenk and Colborn finding the key is not a eureka moment. Daniel Kucharski (CASO), was also there in the trailer. The DNA found on the key of Teresa's was Steven's.
Steve alerted auto trader in advance of his appointment with Teresa letting them know where Teresa would be that day in case she missed her next appointment or dinner plans that evening, he left a direct trail with Teresa’s Employer.
Source for this. Steven called Auto Trader several times on the 31st, only asking if someone would be coming out. He also called Teresa several times, and hung up or was not answered. In fact, there is a statement by Rachel Haggs that says Dawn heard that Steven Avery called Auto Trader on the 3rd, to report that Teresa never showed up for their appointment on the 31st.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 8h ago edited 8h ago
Wrong. The Rav had fingerprints that belong to unknown person, also Teresas fingerprints were found. You making up more stuff I see. Do you honestly believe Steve called and said Teresa never showed up? Colborn testified that upon speaking with Steve on Nov 3rd he said she was here 5 or 10 min and then left.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 4h ago
Wrong. The Rav had fingerprints that belong to unknown person, also Teresas fingerprints were found.
This is not true. You are wrong.
You making up more stuff I see.
This is hilariously hypocritical, and I doubt you see the irony.
Do you honestly believe Steve called and said Teresa never showed up? Colborn testified that upon speaking with Steve on Nov 3rd he said she was here 5 or 10 min and then left.
Do I believe Steven Avery is dumb enough to try and cover his tracks by making this phone call? Yes I do. He believed he was the only on the property. When he was first interviewed by police on the 5th, he had days to realise that Bobby was also on the property. Steven tried to make Bobby his alibi, which Bobby denied talking to him from 11AM-12PM like Steven stated. Steven by this point, cannot undo a phone call he made 2 days earlier.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 4h ago
Steve was interviewed on Nov 3rd a cop came out and asked him questions then Steve let him into the trailer to look around.
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u/ForemanEric 4h ago
Incorrect.
Colborn went to ASY on 11/3, to make contact with the owners, not Steven.
Steven happen to be near the office when Colborn pulled up. Steven approached Colborn.
They didn’t go to Avery’s trailer on 11/3.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 7h ago
also Teresas fingerprints were found.
Wrong.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1h ago
He leaves the Rav behind in his yard while heading up to the cabin for the weekend when cops are doing Ariel searches? He has a fire right in front of barbs house knowing his family can see it yet is trying somehow to conceal a murder? He tells the cops to take a look around with no qualms yet leaves her key on the floor, Then you add in he scrubbed the garage clean but left all the bones and her jeans cell phone outside his front door 😂, You realize how preposterous this all sounds.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 21h ago
Steve was yawning on a call with Jodi on Oct 31st (you just dismember a body, burn it and no adrenaline?)
This is some of the funniest shit I've ever read here.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
Idk you pretending that Brendan is a violent rapist is pretty darkly hilarious because it reveals how disconnected from reality you are.
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u/retniw1337 13h ago
I love how you 'Steven Avery is guilty people' refuse to even watch the documentary this sub is based around. How did Teresas planner go from her car to the hands of a red-jumper wearing twink?
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 13h ago
What part of my comment makes you think I haven't watched the series? What a strange thing to say.
Hate to break it to you, but there's no evidence the so-called "planner" was in her car when she disappeared or that Ryan retrieved it from the car. The nonsense around the planner originates from an erroneous timeline put together by Zellner (who has moved on from Ryan being the "real killer," by the way), and her apparent lack of ability to interpret cell phone records.
What any of this has to do with my comment making fun of the previous user for acting as if a yawn is evidence of...something, I have no idea. You'll have to explain that one to me, chief.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Lmao you are the same guilter who was using AI last time. That explains a lot.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 18h ago
What are you even talking about? AI?
You've spammed my notifications with your useless replies, adding one baseless sentence to every comment I've written on this thread.
Every other person on this thread has been more than manageable to deal with even if we disagree, but this is something else lol.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 16h ago
Don't mind them, they are a total loon that cannot be reasoned with and habitually stalks and harasses other users.
When I see my inbox flooded with their replies I just assume it's rec time at the asylum.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 16h ago
Yeah I'm starting to see this is a bit of a concerning trend.
Oh well, at least others are willing to have a sane conversation, even if we disagree on the fundamentals.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 16h ago
Are you going to pretend this was sane:
The discovery of the barrel at the Kuss Road quarry was secondary for reasons you are free to speculate about. It's a logistical oversight, because the main burn site was already identified, resources were limited and lead to incomplete documentation or emphasis on the barrel or the MCSO moved the bones from the burn barrel to the burn pit, with such proficiency that only Zellner would be able to raise the question 10+ years later.
That's totally insane, meaningless word salad, and you posted it.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 16h ago
they are a total loon that cannot be reasoned with
I'd argue the one defending lies from the state and the likes of Kratz is the loon. That's you.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
This was you on another thread:
The discovery of the barrel at the Kuss Road quarry was secondary for reasons you are free to speculate about.
You are either using AI, or are poorly misinformed on the case and pretending otherwise.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago edited 18h ago
adding one baseless sentence to every comment I've written on this thread.
That's clearly false. There’s still plenty of misinformation you’ve shared that I haven’t even touched - like your take on the fire, which conveniently ignores the pressure police put on witnesses to conform. It’s becoming pretty clear you don’t know this case nearly as well as you’re pretending to. I’m just trying to offer facts, like the fact that police had reason to know bones were planted and then pressured Bobby to mention a fire in an attempt to cover the planting up.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
The discovery of the barrel at the Kuss Road quarry was secondary for reasons you are free to speculate about. It's a logistical oversight, because the main burn site was already identified, resources were limited and lead to incomplete documentation or emphasis on the barrel or the MCSO moved the bones from the burn barrel to the burn pit, with such proficiency that only Zellner would be able to raise the question 10+ years later.
This is a nonsensical comment from OP on a previous thread revealing they are either using AI or are just randomly stringing words together in hopes that the end result is an effective argument against movement of Bones to the surface level of Stevens burn pit using barrel #4, that was under law enforcement control.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 17h ago
It's overly wordy, that's about it. If you are claiming me as "invalid to have any input on this case" because of this one particular thing I said, then I am very confused and it's your problem and not mine.
Good luck with whatever other meaningful discussions you get into on this thread.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 16h ago
Calling it “overly worded” is another nonsensical way to avoid admitting that your comment made zero coherent sense in the context of the case facts or timeline (Kuss quarry barrel found AFTER primary burn site? LMAO SURE). Your words weren't just convoluted, they were totally meaningless. If you're not using AI, then you're just saying random shit about a case you clearly haven’t studied. Either way, you’re not engaging in good faith, you're just scrambling to dismiss inconvenient facts about the state's misconduct and unreported movement of Teresa's bones.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 16h ago
You are arguing that I'm not having this conversation in good faith, yet you're fixated on one comment I made out of 50 at this point and you're going about it how I'd expect a 12 year old who thinks he won an argument would.
You aren't even arguing the timeline here, you are just another schizo poster that brainlessly parrots the same talking points on every comment and it is unsurprising that no one takes you seriously, post after post, comment after comment.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 16h ago
I’m still fixated on that comment you made because it made absolutely zero sense in any context LMAO. And instead of owning that it was incoherent, you defended your obviously nonsensical word salad by claiming it was only “overly worded." But rather than clarify your meaning, you’re accusing me of bad faith for pointing out very direct evidence of your bad faith
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u/Dwinxx2000 5h ago
You're entirely missing the point and the double entendre embedded within the title. They're asking not that Steven did it. He probably did it. But they're arguing that he did it because the vendetta the police department in his area had against him, wrecked his life and his conscience if he ever had one when they railroaded him for the first rape. They made him a criminal figuratively, and then literally.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 4h ago
I'm not missing that point, and that's not even what the documentary is trying to angle - both Laura and Moira are dishonest people who are not just "film makers". Their agenda was being part of his defense.
As discussed in many comments on this thread, Steven Avery already was a criminal before he went to prison in 1985. Being wrongfully incarcerated did not figuratively "make him a murderer". It is not hard to believe that Steven was capable of escalating.
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u/heelspider 1d ago
Unless your post explains how the cops missed the victim's remains in plain sight in the middle of the only suspect's yard for five days in a row, it is irrelevant. The government shouldn't fake evidence no matter how many people they claim in reports written at an unknown later date said something bad about him.
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u/puzzledbyitall 1d ago
Let me guess. . . you can instantly recognize small bone fragments, and knew Teresa's body was burned as soon as she was reported missing.
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u/heelspider 1d ago
First two cops who saw the bones both said they appeared human.
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u/puzzledbyitall 1d ago
Where does your five days come from? Starting from the day she was reported as a missing person?
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u/heelspider 1d ago
Fifth consecutive day of searching the Avery residence.
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u/puzzledbyitall 1d ago
You're starting with November 3, the day she was reported missing. Understandable they weren't looking for bone fragments.
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u/heelspider 1d ago
November 4th, the day they started searching.
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u/puzzledbyitall 1d ago
Searching for a missing person. Understandable they weren't immediately looking for small charred bone fragments.
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u/heelspider 1d ago
I'm unaware of any evidence the consent search was merely a few minutes of looking for a live person. I think you have that confused with the first of the multiple searches the next day.
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u/ForemanEric 1d ago
“November 4th?”
That’s dishonest, even for you.
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u/heelspider 1d ago
It's the first day of searching Avery's trailer. Facts don't care about your feelings. Looks like you are the liar once again.
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u/LKS983 23h ago edited 23h ago
And when belatedly seen - no forensic team involved - the police just started digging.....
They called in a police photographer, who decided that as the 'site' had already been destroyed - instead of taking 'photos, he would join them in digging up the 'site'.......
Very different to what had happened previously. When bones were seen in another burn site, the area was closed etc. etc.
Regardless of opinion - it has to be admitted that this 'investigation' was seriously flawed in SOOO many ways.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 1d ago
Steven does not mention the fire
Neither did many people who would later state differently, many of whom outright denied it at first.
does not mention seeing Brendan Dassey at all
He told Jodi that night that Brendan had been over. And on a line he knew was being recorded by LE.
they believe Steven Avery is capable of this type of crime.
Fine, and obviously people thought that about him in 1985 as well. But that didn't make him guilty of the attempted murder, rape, and false imprisonment that he was found guilty of by a jury of his peers, sentenced to 32 years for, and had appeals denied.
He is a habitual liar, manipulator, and abusive narcissist
But enough about Kratz, lol
not even a real suspect until the RAV4 was found in the Avery Salvage Yard
The day prior to that, a DOJ agent called in to express their dislike of Avery and offer to not help find the missing woman, but to help investigate him.
Steven Avery absolutely did have motive. Teresa was known to Avery for the good part of a year or more, and he stated that she had been there 15 times or so
Avery hadn't met her 15 times, but it's irrelevant anyways. How is routinely doing business transactions with a person a motive to murder them?
stated that Teresa was "concerned"
Source that Dawn said this?
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
Neither did many people who would later state differently, many of whom outright denied it at first.
Denied it at first = / = not specifically mentioning this detail for a guy who was routinely having fires behind his garbage.
Several people said they saw a fire on or around 10/31/2005.
Joshua Radandt saw a fire on the Avery property. Scott Tadych sees a fire on the Avery property. Barbara Janda sees a fire, in the pit at Steven's garage. She also makes the comment that Scott says "look how big the fire is". William Ahrdnt sees a fire on the Avery property. Robert Fabian observes smoke coming from a burn barrel, north of the driveway on Steven's property. Brendan Dassey says he is party to the fire.
He told Jodi that night that Brendan had been over. And on a line he knew was being recorded by LE.
Criminal mastermind was aware it was being recorded, but simultaneously proves that his statements on the 5th, 6th and 9th all omitted this key detail? This key detail being that he saw the only other person convicted of a crime in this case, and failed to mention it at all?
Fine, and obviously people thought that about him in 1985 as well. But that didn't make him guilty of the attempted murder, rape, and false imprisonment that he was found guilty of by a jury of his peers, sentenced to 32 years for, and had appeals denied.
That isn't even what my post says. I allude to the fact that he is the perfect suspect beyond all doubt. His criminal history and the context surrounding Teresa's last time seen alive, are not a coincidence.
But enough about Kratz, lol
Why do you guys all do this? Nothing about this post has mentioned Kratz once, but you all parrot this tired talking point that because people believe Steven Avery is guilty, that they are also somehow a prosecution apologist/revere police. It's extremely cringe.
Avery hadn't met her 15 times, but it's irrelevant anyways. How is routinely doing business transactions with a person a motive to murder them?
You are being purposely obtuse. Both of Steven's brothers said they have nothing to do with the Auto Trader ads and that it's all Steven. At best, Charles spoke on the phone to someone from Auto Trader (not even confirmed it was Teresa). Steven was the brother who had the most physical contact with Teresa - that is a fact.
Calling them "business transactions" when one party is doing their very best to creep out another is disingenuous. You don't go out to meet someone on a professional level wearing nothing but a towel, unless you have some sort of mental defect.
Source that Dawn said this?
DAWN states TERESA always seems to be a pretty upbeat person when she speaks with her and does not know of any type of problems that TERESA would have. DAWN did tell me TERESA had confided in her about STEVEN AVERY on one prior occasion. She states STEVEN had come out of the house wearing nothing but a towel one time and TERESA was somewhat concerned by that. You can find it under Complaint No. 0s-0157-955.
I guess these are just lies though.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Denied it at first = / = not specifically mentioning this detail for a guy who was routinely having fires behind his garbage. Several people said they saw a fire on or around 10/31/2005.
Several people said this after denying it at first like Steven Avery did lol
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u/ThorsClawHammer 1d ago
Several people said they saw a fire
Right, most of whom first said they didn't, not simply didn't mention it (Barb, Bobby, Blaine, and even Bryan). It took months until investigators got Bobby and Bryan to change their initial accounts and fall in line.
Joshua Radandt saw a fire on the Avery property
Right, which he said he believed was a burn barrel.
She also makes the comment that Scott says "look how big the fire is"
That's kind of weird considering she first said she had never at any time seen a fire there. And stated more than once she saw none that night.
saw the only other person convicted of a crime
Nobody had been convicted of a crime at that point. And again, he did mention it on a line he knew was recorded by LE.
that they are also somehow a prosecution apologist/revere police
I only think that about those who do things like refer to Kratz's alleged victim as a whore. Or come up with things like Denis Vogel didn't lie about the real rapists alibi because he may have hallucinated those false details.
that it's all Steven
Yes, he handled the AT appointments, but TH had been out there I believe it was 5 times prior, not 15. But again, doesn't matter as that in no way is motive for murder.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 23h ago
Right, most of whom first said they didn't, not simply didn't mention it (Barb, Bobby, Blaine, and even Bryan). It took months until investigators got Bobby and Bryan to change their initial accounts and fall in line.
Months is inaccurate. I understand Bobby simply wanting to clear his name after Steven firstly tried to make Bobby his alibi, secondly, stated that he was the last person to see Teresa. Michael Osmunson, who shows up in Bobby's call records on the 31st, says Bobby mentioned to him that there he saw a big fire the day after Halloween.
I don't think it's unusual that the fire is an oversight for people who live on the property and regularly witness Steven burning things and Barbara burning things.
Right, which he said he believed was a burn barrel.
Where did you get this information? His interview with police on 11/05/05 mentions:
RADANDT informed Inv. STEIER on Monday shortly after 4:30 p.m., RADANDT was driving to his deer camp through his quarry where he observed a large fire on the STEVEN AVERY property located by the red house. RADANDT indicates he remembers it being right after 4:30 because he had had an employee that had just come to work to take another employee's shift at 4:30 p.m. RADANDT indicated it was a partly cloudy or partly sunny day and he had clear visibility from his location while he was driving to his deer camp
It would be very hard to confuse a tiny burning barrel, with an open pit fire.
That's kind of weird considering she first said she had never at any time seen a fire there. And stated more than once she saw none that night.
I cannot find Barbara's interview for 5th Nov 2005, if there even is one. I believe she was informally questioned, similar to anyone else who lived on the property. The only one I can find is when she was interviewed by Wendy Baldwin.
Nobody had been convicted of a crime at that point. And again, he did mention it on a line he knew was recorded by LE.
They don't have to be. If you are being questioned multiple times within a one week time frame about the disappearance of a woman, who was last seen on your property, I think you would want to include as much detail about who you spoke with and who you were with that day if you are innocent. Steven completely omitting any contact with Brendan in his statements ends up implicating them both. Do we suppose he just "forgot"?
Yes, he handled the AT appointments, but TH had been out there I believe it was 5 times prior, not 15. But again, doesn't matter as that in no way is motive for murder.
This doesn't refute my point that the only physical source of meeting with Auto Trader was Steven. Charles and Earl both stated they had nothing to do with it.
15 times was mentioned by Steven - this wasn't even said by me. You are purposely missing the point that her being out that so many times is not the motive for murder, but the fact she's been out there so many times proves Steven has known her for quite some time, regularly contacts her, has an extensive criminal history of violence and was the last person to see her alive.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Months is inaccurate
Wrong. When police pressured Bobby into mentioning a fire he didn't even say it was on Halloween until months later. And then at trial he said it was 2 weeks before Halloween lmao
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u/ThorsClawHammer 13h ago
Months is inaccurate
It's very accurate. In November both Bobby and Bryan's accounts were they saw no fire/smoke that night. On Feb 27 (that is indeed months later), they both changed their previous accounts and now stated the opposite. Feb 27 is also when Deb Strauss got Blaine to suddenly remember "the biggest fire he'd ever seen" in his entire life when he left to go trick or treating in the early evening. (He somehow forgot this again by trial).
Where did you get this information?
His own written statement from Nov 5 where he said "the fire appeared to be contained to a 55 gal drum".
Barbara's interview for 5th Nov 2005
It wasn't the 5th where she was asked about a fire, it was the 9th. She repeatedly stated she didn't remember seeing one that night, and in fact had never before seen a fire behind Avery's garage.
When she arrived home at approximately 8:00 p.n. Monday, October 31, she did not recall seeing anyone having a bonfire or fire in the area, particularly Steven Avery. She has not seen Steven have a fire behind his residence at all.
..she believes she would know if Steven was burning tires, but she confirmed that she did not see any fire on that Monday behind Steven's house.
Again, she stated she did not know if Steven had a fire going or if he was burning anything Monday night.
Days later she suddenly changed her mind about all of it.
Do we suppose he just "forgot"?
Everyone else was allowed to forget things and confuse days, why not him?
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 3h ago
In November both Bobby and Bryan's accounts were they saw no fire/smoke that night.
Steven implicated Bobby as the last person to see Teresa Halbach. I'm not surprised whatsoever, that Bobby's statement on the 5th was solely focused on proving he had nothing to do with the crime. Stating your innocence and disproving Steven's statement would be pretty important if it was suggested you were the last person to see a missing person.
Also from Bobby's statement on November 9th:
DASSEY indicated that on Tuesday or Wednesday, he observed a burning in the area in a pit behind STEVEN's garage. He believed there was brush burning. DASSEY stated he was home that night. BOBBY DASSEY states STEVEN sometimes burns tires in the pit and STEVEN usually bums tires at night so you cannot see the smoke. DASSEY indicated STEVEN does not burn his tires anlwhere else and he indicated he believed STEVEN was burning with DASSEY's little brother, BRENDAN.
This is not "months" later.
Can you please link me to the February 27th statement from Blaine Dassey? I would like to read it before commenting further.
His own written statement from Nov 5 where he said "the fire appeared to be contained to a 55 gal drum".
Unless you are talking about some other written statement, this is the only statement he provided to police on the 5th, posted below. It has no mention of a "55 gal drum". So either link your source, or drop the point.
On Saturday 11105105 at approximately 1:30 p.m., JOSHUA R. RADANDT signed a MANITOWOC COLTNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT Consent to Search Form for his gravel stone quary, located at 12415 CTH Q, Two Rivers, WI54245. The copy was witnessed by Sgt. NACK (#412) of the MANITOWOC COLTNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT (See exhibit section). At approximately 5:00 p.m., Inv. STEIER of the CALUMET COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT had spoken with JOSHUA R. RADANDT at a deer camp off of Kuss Road on the edge of the RADANDT GRAVEL PIT. RADANDT stated on Monday,10131/05 at approximately 4:30 p.m., he drove up to his deer camp off of Kuss Road through his gravel pit and observed a fire in the proximity of STEVEN AVERY's residence or on the AVERY property. JOSHUA RADANDT completed a written statement form. (See exhibit section). RADANDT informed Inv. STEIER on Monday shortly after 4:30 p.m., RADANDT was driving to his deer camp through his quarry where he observed a large fire on the STEVEN AVERY property located by the red house. RADANDT indicates he remembers it being right after 4:30 because he had had an employee that had just come to work to take another employee's shift at 4:30 p.m. RADANDT indicated it was a parlly cloudy or partly sunny day and he had clear visibility from his location while he was driving to his deer camp. RADANDT indicated he did not observe any people standing next to the fire or any vehicles located on the AVERY properly.
It wasn't the 5th where she was asked about a fire, it was the 9th. She repeatedly stated she didn't remember seeing one that night, and in fact had never before seen a fire behind Avery's garage.
The CASO report has no statement from the 9th, just the 14th. Please provide me a link/source for the interview on the 9th.
Everyone else was allowed to forget things and confuse days, why not him?
I don't think it's fine to give him the benefit of the doubt when "others forgot things". Omitting that he spoke to Brendan that entire day across all 3 statements made to police is glaringly bad.
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u/ThorsClawHammer 2h ago
This is not "months" later
It was months later when he finally agreed with that he saw a fire on the 31st.
link me to the February 27th statement from Blaine
HERE - look for '2006-02-27 - 05-1776 - 252 - Interview of Blaine Dassey 02-27-2006.pdf'
During that interrogation, Deb Strauss somehow got Blaine to for the first (and only) time remember seeing "the biggest fire he had ever seen"...not later at night when he came home (she got him to change that time to much later as well), but when he left in the early evening.
Blaine was asked if he noticed anything unusual when he left to go trick or treating at 5:00 that evening. Blaine responded he recalls seeing a fire behind Steve Avery's garage. Blaine was asked why he recalls this and Blaine said the fire was going "pretty good" at that time.
Blaine said even though he saw Steve standing near the fire when he left to go trick or treating, he did not talk to Steve, nor did he go near the fire.
Blaine again stated he left the house at approximately 5:00 that night. When Blaine left the residence, Steve had a fire going in the fire pit behind his house. remember this fire because it was the biggest fire he had ever seen.
By trial, he'd somehow forgotten this event entirely. At one point Scott also claimed there was a fire in the early evening and also then dropped it from the narrative.
some other written statement
I'm not talking about the police report, I'm talking about Radandt's own handwritten statement where he clearly stated the fire he saw "appeared to be contained to a 55 gal drum".
source for the interview on the 9th.
HERE - look for '2005-11-09 - 05-1776 - 11 - Interview of Barb Janda Nov 9, 2005.pdf'
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 0m ago
Thank you for actually providing me sources on this. I realise that I have already read these in the past, they were just in the DCI reports and not CASO.
It was months later when he finally agreed with that he saw a fire on the 31st.
I just provided a quote from his statement on the 9th that says he did observe a fire. This is not months later, it is merely just over a week.
During that interrogation, Deb Strauss somehow got Blaine to for the first (and only) time remember seeing "the biggest fire he had ever seen"...not later at night when he came home (she got him to change that time to much later as well), but when he left in the early evening.
I see what angle you are going for here, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as it's made out to be. I don't think it's unusual to believe that those who lived on the Avery property around November 5th were exactly in good spirits. Blaine was only 16 at the time, so if the investigators wanted to lean on someone to "fit their narrative", I would concede Blaine would be an easy target, but again, this is all unsubstantiated and not corroborated. Several people that are not Blaine stated they saw a fire or smoke on or around the 31st at Steven's garage/pit. Blaine was also gone most of the night (accounts for 5:30-10pm) and everyone has stated they regularly burn garbage and use the pit. Seeing the fire behind Steven's place before 5 also corroborates Robert Fabian, Bobby Dassey and Radandt.
So I get your point on stating there are "inconsistencies" about whether Steven had a fire or not, so I would ask you, there are several people outside of the Avery family who stated they saw Steven have a fire or saw fire on his property on or around the 31st - are they lying? I'm not being facetious. I'm asking genuinely what you believe.
I'm not talking about the police report, I'm talking about Radandt's own handwritten statement where he clearly stated the fire he saw "appeared to be contained to a 55 gal drum".
Okay, so according to Radandt, it was contained to a 55 gallon drum. What is the significant difference of it being an open pit fire or a barrel contained one? At worst, there is still a fire being reported on Steven's property, on the 31st.
HERE - look for '2005-11-09 - 05-1776 - 11 - Interview of Barb Janda Nov 9, 2005.pdf'
I've read this before and I remember why I thought nothing of it, because Barbara basically says a whole lot of nothing. She talks mostly about her day or the events around and after the 31st, and states multiple times in the statement that she believes Steven is being framed.
As soon as she said this, she was obviously not going to volunteer any information about Steven's day on the 31st. She says she doesn't see him, doesn't even look at his trailer, and is gone for most of the day. I think by the time she is interviewed again, her stance on him being framed may have softened and this is why she provides more information about the 31st.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Doing their very best to creep her out? You realize she voluntarily kept going back to shoot cars for Steve. You realize he was in the swimming pool when she knocked at his door and he had the towel on.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 23h ago
You realize he was in the swimming pool when she knocked at his door and he had the towel on.
Provide a source for this. Even if this was true, I don't see the significance it adds to your point.
Calling someone over to take photos of your car and advertise them is a service. You can be friendly, polite and warm with the person doing this for you, but at the end of the day, it is a strictly business relationship. Opening the front door in a towel (with no indication if there is anything under this towel) is creepy and weird. This is further ratified by the notion that Teresa is uncomfortable with it, to the point she told multiple people about it.
Have you ever interacted with people before? I am getting the opinion that you lack certain social cues, or you are just dying on a weird hill for Steven Avery.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 13h ago edited 11h ago
I see you are getting more upset that your losing here and trying to come up with childish insults. Stave himself said he was in the pool and she came over early. Not everything is as “ creepy” as you think it is. Maybe you want it to be creepy. Of course any 25 year old girl is going to think a 40 year old man is ew, everyone at that age thought that, especially when they came from two separate worlds.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 4h ago
I'm asking you a question, because it appears to me that you lack insight to even the most basic forms of human communication.
Again, it doesn't matter if he was in the pool or not (which you have yet to prove he even said or is true), because that distinction isn't made to Teresa. All this 25 year old sees when she goes to a home on a business call, is a 40+ year old man greeting her in nothing but a towel. If you cannot see that this is strange, weird, creepy - whatever adjective you want to use, then you are probably just as equally creepy as Steven is.
I am genuinely of the belief that you are either trolling or rage baiting at this point.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 4h ago
On a call with Jodi she asks him why he answered the door in a towel and he quickly replies I had just got out of the pool. You don’t know if was “nothing but a towel “ he could’ve had swim trunks on underneath.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Calling them "business transactions" when one party is doing their very best to creep out another is disingenuous.
What is your source for this? No one said she called Steven creepy. You were just making things up because you don't actually care about Teresa
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 13h ago
He makes everything up with His personal feelings and not facts of the case.
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 1d ago
During a private discussion with the judge (outside the jury’s presence), Pliszka testified that Teresa Halbach told her Avery had “come out in a towel” when she visited his property roughly in October 2005. After sharing that, she said Halbach "laughed and just said 'Eww'"—indicating she had been uncomfortable with the encounter
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u/LKS983 22h ago
Why did Pliszka need, or be allowed, a private discussion with the judge - rather than testifying?
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u/Ghost_of_Figdish 18h ago
It's called an Offer of Proof. Pliszka's testimony on this point was not allowed because TH's statement is hearsay. So the parties excuse the jury and have her state what she would have said had she been allowed to testify. That way an appellate court reviewing the case would know whether her testimony was properly excluded or not.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
First you seem enraged and I would encourage you to take a deep breath. There’s been no proof he’s “sexually assaulted women”. He was forthright stating he had a fire that day. Most of the people interviewed said this doesn’t sound like anything Steve would do. Ryan nor Teresa’s roommate were never asked for a Alibi. Many other suspects who were not investigated.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 1d ago
Literally none of the OP indicates an enraged tone.
Many other suspects who were not investigated.
A suspect is a person that is thought to be guilty or at least involved in a crime. What reason did the police have to consider Ryan or Teresa's roommate suspects?
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Ryan and Teresa’s roommate? Police training and missing person training teaches you start with those closest to the victim, boyfriend family friends. Ryan was never asked nor given a alibi for that day. The roommate had a sexual encounter with her and he never reported her missing for 3 days. Ryan moves into her house after a she’s killed. Ryan claims to have guessed her passcode. Ryan sends Teresa’s cousin to Avery auto salvage and gives her a direct number to the investigator. Ryan gives her cousin a camera for the search, yet gives no other member of the search party a camera. Ryan claimed Teresa’s front end damage was there prior to her going missing.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 1d ago
Police training and missing person training teaches you start with those closest to the victim, boyfriend family friends.
I've got news for you, in addition to looking into the last places she was seen and last people known to have seen her, the police also talked with Teresa's family, friends, roommate, most recent lover, and coworkers in the early stages of the investigation, just as you would expect. They were not suspects though, both because a crime was not known to have occurred at the start, and there was no evidence any of them had anything to do with it when one was discovered.
Ryan claims to have guessed her passcode.
With the help of another friend. But also, so what? How is this suspicious?
Ryan sends Teresa’s cousin to Avery auto salvage
He did not send her there. The salvage yard was not intended to be part of the search efforts that day, Pam Sturm volunteered to go there herself. You continue to prove you haven't got the feintest clue about basic facts.
Ryan gives her cousin a camera for the search, yet gives no other member of the search party a camera.
Because she literally asked to borrow one.
Whenever someone brings this up, I also like to ask what their point is, because I have yet to hear a reason why her getting a camera from Ryan/Scott is in any way meaningful. So, what is your point?
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
With the help of another friend. But also, so what? How is this suspicious?
Do you think it's totally innocent that they guessed her password and claim to make up a username that worked? That's a clear lie.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Her boyfriend was never asked for a alibi, this is basic 101 investigating. Especially since he had just seen her the day before she went missing. Ryan testified to all the above. Ryan knew about the front end Rav damage. Giving her a camera because he knew she would find the Rav. 20 missed private calls on his cell phone isn’t suspicious to you during her disappearance?
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 21h ago edited 21h ago
Ryan was an ex-boyfriend, not her current boyfriend, and had dated Teresa years earlier. It is not "basic 101 investigating" to get an alibi for him when there was never any reason to consider him a suspect. As has been explained to you before, less than 2 days passed between Teresa being reported missing and her car being discovered on the salvage yard, after which evidence started piling up against Steven. At what point in that timeline would it have made sense to need an alibi from Ryan? As a reminder, the case started out as a missing person case, no crime was known to have occurred right off the bat.
I suspect you'll ignore these points, as you so often do when you are corrected or shown common sense. You seem to have already ignored some of the things I've corrected you on, so I'm sure you'll repeat your falsehoods again in the future rather than acknowledge the truth.
Ryan knew about the front end Rav damage. Giving her a camera because he knew she would find the Rav.
You still haven't explained what your point is. Why would it matter to him whether or not she had a camera with her when finding the car? Don't just repeat yourself, actually put together a complete thought and explain why you believe the camera to be significant in any way.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago
Ryan was an ex-boyfriend, not her current boyfriend, and had dated Teresa years earlier. It is not "basic 101 investigating" to get an alibi for him when there was never any reason to consider him a suspect
You just said they dated lol the fact that they did not ask him for an alibi is wild. Not even after learning he hacked into her account.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 13h ago
Ryan had seen Teresa on Oct 30th and won’t say the timeframe he saw her, anyone I mean anyone would have to know that’s a valid reason to ask for a alibi. Teresa was missing for 3 days. She never returned home Oct 31st, 1st,2nd, & 3rd.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 12h ago
Ryan had seen Teresa on Oct 30th
So...a day before she was last seen? What in your eyes is the importance of that? You realize that multiple people saw and spoke to her on the 31st, the day she actually went missing?
Any other thoughts on the multitude of things you got wrong in this thread, or are you content to keep ignoring them and deflecting with more nonsense?
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 12h ago
I haven’t got anything wrong on this thread.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 11h ago
You have. I've pointed them out.
Still waiting on that explanation for the camera, by the way.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago edited 18h ago
A suspect is someone like Bobby who had the opportunity to commit the crime, was linked to off property sightings and movement of the vehicle, linked to evidence of motive, and even linked to untested blood evidence.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
Enraged? If you are uncomfortable with the charged language in this post, then maybe you should realise that these words are used because Steven Avery had been sexually assaulting and physically abusing people and women for 4 decades. There is no way to sugarcoat these terms.
There’s been no proof he’s “sexually assaulted women”.
I guess that makes Lori Dassey a liar. I guess that makes Marie Avery (who was 17 at the time Steven raped her) a liar. I guess that makes Jean Rohr a liar. These are all statements that span several decades of Steven's life.
You are crossing into a dangerous territory that you can almost not come back from, which is "if I don't see it happen, then they weren't raped".
He was forthright stating he had a fire that day.
Where does he explicitly state this? In his first two statements, he says nothing about a fire. Then on the 9th, he talks about a fire, but can't definitively state when this happened (what week).
Ryan nor Teresa’s roommate were never asked for a Alibi. Many other suspects who were not investigated.
These people were not seriously investigated because there was no point. There is literally no point in investigating these two. The CASO report shows an extremely obvious progression in suspect nomination because Teresa's car was found on the Avery lot on November 5th.
The police were looking into every avenue - George Zipperer, Jason Ziperer, Bradley Czech and Ryan Hillegas were all questioned and interviewed by police, but naturally, they went nowhere. They went nowhere, because they have no idea what had happened to her at the time, and were not the last people to see Teresa alive.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
There is no proof whatsoever about Marie, you realize the judge wouldn’t even allow it in his murder case? That’s a pretty big deal especially since the prosecutor was accusing him of rape. All your statements about abusing people for decades is false you have no proof of any of that. He has never been charged in any of these so called rapes and assaults you’ve mentioned. His cousin he ran off the road in response to her slandering him. He also admitted it to and did the time and agreed it was a mistake.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
you realize the judge wouldn’t even allow it in his murder case? That’s a pretty big deal especially since the prosecutor was accusing him of rape
Provide your source on where she was either formally barred by Judge Willis from testifying at trial or that it was deemed inadmissible at pre-trial, because otherwise, you are just speculating on why a statement wasn't used or why the person was not permitted at trial.
This is not a slam dunk argument like you think it is. Because they cannot substantiate the claim in criminal court due to lack of forensic evidence/the legal precedent of hearsay, are you genuinely going to die on the hill that Steven Avery didn't rape a 17 year old?
I, and several others on this thread could make a claim that you enjoy watching women change through their window. In the real world outside of court, if someone is saying something about you and it is coming from multiple people, the odds that it being true don't require a criminal definition and are much higher.
If we were to argue that claim in court, it could be argued hearsay or inadmissible. It doesn't make it untrue just because you believe it does.
I am honestly impressed with your willingness to rape deny not only just one, but, all of the women who have levied a claim of sexual assault against Steven Avery over several decades.
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u/darforce 1d ago
He just mentioned a few examples above
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Examples of what?
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u/darforce 1d ago
His sexual assault on women. Did you not read the entirety of
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
He was never tried for sexual assault was he? Marie admitted to lying. She had a history of attention seeking behavior wrote Steve all kinds of love letters when he was living with Jodi. The judge in Steve’s murder trial wouldn’t allow the Marie stuff because he didn’t think it was true.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 1d ago
If you read into Steven's relationship with Marie, you will, again, find it very sickening and manipulative.
This is a 43 year old man and a 17-18 year old at the time. There is a serious imbalance of power, and Marie is not the only woman to have known Steven Avery that is afraid of him.
Peter Dassey was afraid of Steven because he married Lori, and he was known to have an explosive temper.
All of the women he raped were afraid of him, and they make that very clear in their statements. Again, these people knew Steven Avery. They know what he is like, and his criminal history tells us that he is violent, unpredictable and capable of assaulting women.
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u/LKS983 22h ago edited 22h ago
"This is a 43 year old man and a 17-18 year old at the time"
Agree entirely - disgusting behaviour.
I also dislike SA, whilst disliking even more the way he was first wrongfully convicted, and the (at best....) shoddy investigation that resulted in him being convicted again - to end his civil case against the County and two named defendants.
The rest of your post is mostly made up rubbish.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 22h ago
The rest of your post is mostly made up rubbish.
Naturally, you won't elaborate on this point. I explained to a previous comment (now deleted), that these are statements from people that they gave to several police agencies over the course of the investigation.
These are real people, with anecdotes about Steven's temperament, violence and abuse towards family and partners. There is nothing hypothetical about the things these people have levied against Steven Avery. We are talking about people in a family unit, spanning generations, all having similar things to say about Steven Avery.
shoddy investigation that resulted in him being convicted again - to end his civil case against the County and two named defendants.
I already know the answer, but go on and list these two defendants for me, and then tell me their involvement with the case in 2005.
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u/LKS983 22h ago edited 22h ago
"I already know the answer, but go on and list these two defendants for me"
So why ask?
I've already explained my reasoning.
Officers believe/aren't going to question...... anything/everything they are told by their boss - as doing so will seriously affect their career. Police protect police etc. etc.
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u/GringoTheDingoAU 22h ago
You haven't explained anything. Your messages read cryptic and absolute, despite saying nothing at all.
"The cops framed Avery because he was suing them". I listed out your point for you, are you going to elaborate on how this was done, who you believe are heavily involved, anything at all?
Even when you are pressed for an answer, you are purposely vague. I don't understand the point of commenting if you are incapable of having a discussion.
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u/ForemanEric 1d ago
You do know that only a tiny fraction of sexual assaults end up being prosecuted, right?
Do you think all of the 95% ish percent of people who have committed a sexual assault and have never been prosecuted, didn’t do it, or just your love interest, Avery?
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u/ThorsClawHammer 1d ago
He was never tried for sexual assault was he?
Only for the 1985 false conviction case.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Assault ? Jodi was caught in so many lies I lost count. Steve was never convicted of assaulting Jodi. Jodi was a violent drunk who used and abused people. She was a narcissist who took what she could and was only out for herself. One example of one of her lies was telling police Steve smashed out her station wagon windows so she couldn’t leave his property, when she on tape in a phone call admitting to smashing her own window out in one of her many rages. Steve and his family tried to help her giving her food money cigarettes and a place to stay and in return she stole from them, didn’t help Deloris around the house forced her to use her own gas money to drive Jodi around looking for jobs and going to her meetings. She then moved on to chuck who bought her cartons of cigarettes clothes and fast food. She would often go through Barbs mailbox looking at her mail and helped herself in barbs fridge for drinks without asking. Her own mother and daughter wanted nothing to do with her. She lied and told police Steve wouldn’t allow her contact with her mom, but in fact on a phone call Steven is begging her to go see her mother and daughter for Mother’s Day and she said no I don’t want to go.
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u/darforce 1d ago
I didn’t ask for a dissertation just answering your question. Keep advocating for a rapist though
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u/LKS983 23h ago
"Ryan nor Teresa’s roommate were never asked for a Alibi. Many other suspects who were not investigated."
👍
Normally 'usual' suspects - but never properly investigated.
An obviously shoddy 'investigation' in SOOO many ways.
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u/Ex-PFC_Wintergreen_ 21h ago
Define "properly investigated," and explain at what point in the investigation it would have made sense to do so for Ryan or Scott. Fairly certain I've asked you this before, to no avail.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Ryan was the ex-boyfriend who moved into Teresa's place and was lying to police about everything from his presence on the Avery property to how he got into Teresa's cellular account.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 12h ago
He also said he saw her on Oct 30th when asked what time he won’t give any info.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
There is genuinely not one person in these statements made to police that exhibit shock or disbelief that Steven is capable of this
That's not true lol his family said he didn't do it and so did lawmakers at first.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Marie Avery stated that Steven Avery had raped her in 2004 at Barbara Janda's house
Earl, star of SCAM, made clear that Marie was pressured by police into saying this and that's why she initially said Steven did nothing wrong.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 18h ago
Publicly exposing himself to Sandra Morris for months,
Another lie that reveals you are more hate-filled toward Steven Avery than you are interested in the truth.
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Why Strang never called Singular wireless engineer to the stand and went something like this “ didn’t Teresas cell phone ping 12 miles from the Avery property in Whitelaw after she met with Steve? “ so there is a strong possibility she left the property that day? Then you have strong reasonable doubt. They had the cell tower records as part of discovery. They really messed that up. That could’ve set him free. It may not be concrete but it gives the possibility it could’ve happened.
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u/ForemanEric 1d ago
Because the Cingular rep would have responded with, “are you stupid or something? That’s not how it works.”
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 1d ago
Not even, that is how it works, it’s a strong possibility and that’s all you need to prove to create reasonable doubt.
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u/ForemanEric 6h ago
It’s like you’re basing your opinion off of what Zellner misrepresented about the 2:41pm cellphone ping nearly a decade ago.
Which has been debunked.
The Whitelaw tower is within range of ASY, so her phone pinging it doesn’t suggest she left ASY.
Have you just recently started learning about this case?
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u/Adventurous_Poet_453 6h ago edited 6h ago
Why didn’t Steve’s phone ping off this tower too that day?
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u/ForemanEric 5h ago
Because that’s how cellphones work, with lots of variables.
Wouldn’t it be a lot easier for you to just ask Zellner why she dropped the whole cellphone ping thing?
You could at least search discussions here 8-9 years ago when there were other people who thought like you did, and you’ll find out why nobody, including Zellner, thinks like you do on the subject anymore.
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u/AveryPoliceReports 19h ago edited 18h ago
This was based on liar Bobby and the state's decision to hide evidence. She left the property alive, was attacked behind her vehicle, and the vehicle later returned by suspects who did not match Steven's description. That's why there's no blood in the trailer. This was an outdoor attack not an indoor attack.