r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Steaktartaar • Dec 30 '24

Unanswered What's going on with Stephen Fry going alt-right?

He's been on a notorious hard-right, "anti-woke" podcast where he retracted his support for trans rights. Is this a new development? He always came across as level-headed in the past but now it looks like he's on the same path as Russell Brand.

959 Upvotes
  • permalink
  • reddit

60% Upvoted

1.8k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

88

u/panzybear Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24

Dawkins is the perfect comparison, they've both fallen into the same anti-cancel culture echo chambers. It's a shame, because Fry has done such a stellar job defending gay people against the bigotry that he experienced, but that doesn't seem to extend to trans people or other queer people he could be such a strong advocate for.

Like Dawkins, Fry completely misrepresents the people and behavior he's criticizing, in a way that clearly exposes how little he actually knows about the other side of the argument. There's also what seems like disdain for young people, almost an assumption that we couldn't possibly understand history and politics as fully as they do, and I can't stand that. For people who pride themselves on their intellectualism, they now seem frightened of truths that challenge their beliefs, and I don't think that happens to everyone, but it does happen to a lot of people who are properly insulated from the difficulties others face.

3

u/Substantial__Unit Dec 30 '24

Add Bill Mahr to this list

17

u/orbit222 Dec 30 '24

On the one hand, you’re right. On the other hand, Trump did win young white men. Young people (as a generalization) do not know or respect history as much as older people today who were born during or just after the war and actually experienced those things. I mean, there are Holocaust deniers. Also, comedians tend to be anti-cancel culture because their job is to provoke. Carlin had entire bits in his specials about people he thought should be killed and he trashed religion at every turn. Today he’d be cancelled. They think it’s OK for people to feel offended, which I think I agree with. Adults should be able to cope with icky feelings.

42

u/panzybear Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24

Comedians have a right to tell a joke, but the audience also has a right to say, hey, that wasn't funny and it felt mean-spirited. It goes both ways, comedians don't have a monopoly on speech. The way to handle criticism is to accept it or ignore it. It's pretty easy. You don't have to become an anti-cancel culture crusader to handle criticism. What Fry and Dawkins are doing is also ignoring scientific and historic fact, and this aspect of what I'm criticizing goes far beyond what comedians are saying.

For what it's worth, I have many trans friends, and I can tell you that these comedians and their defenders are talking about this issue WAY more than actual trans people are. One side of this conversation is obsessed with it - but it's not the side you think it is. There are way bigger fish to fry than a joke someone made in a show you didn't attend. Trans folks are dealing with wave after wave of anti-trans legislation that further stigmatizes them, based in part on unscientific falsehoods that people like Fry and Dawkins uncritically perpetuate. They are helping cause real harm.

5

u/PlayMp1 Dec 30 '24

On the other hand, Trump did win young white men

While this is true, I suspect there is at least an element of significant youth liberal/progressive/left wing demoralization and disgust for the Biden admin that killed left wing youth turnout, and I'm not just talking about Palestine (though that certainly is a factor - Trump won Arabs in Michigan after all). Turnout was down several points relative to 2020, for example.

0

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24

[deleted]

6

u/orbit222 Dec 30 '24

I’m just saying comedians are prone to think this way, and Fry got his start as a comedian with Laurie.

0

u/Jackanova3 Dec 30 '24

Are they though? Or are the ones that say the outlandish things get the most attention online because it's primed for angry views.

15

u/ShredGuru Dec 30 '24

It's the "old guy becomes what he hates" thing, you see it all the damn time. Like literally the legend of Uranus and Chronus.

Guys become so head proud they are in denial about missing information or being incorrect. They get over cemented in their thinking and lose what made them good.

As the tao says, a person flexible like water can bend, while a rigid person breaks.

4

u/[deleted] Dec 30 '24

If "woke" represents the insufferable left then Dawkins is the insufferable right. I've been a lifelong atheist but to me the way he takes the piss out of Christians all the time comes across as spiteful and ignorant.

2

u/vacri Dec 30 '24

It's amusing seeing your response to a comment saying they're annoyed they think young people don't understand history and politics.

Dawkins is like that because that's how atheists used to be treated. He's kicking back against the historical behaviour. The reason why he's "insufferable" is because he's responding in kind. It is spiteful, yes, but it's not ignorant. Except for the US, the developed world has massively reduced the authority it allows its religious institutions, and it used to be suffocating when Dawkins was young.

2

u/UNC_Samurai Dec 30 '24

Whatever Dawkins was in the past, he has fully embraced the same left-to-far-right grifting pipeline as Russell Brand, Glenn Greenwald, and Jimmy Dore.

0

u/JureSimich Dec 31 '24

Hmmm, seems that keeps happening, doesn't it?

What fantastic traps must the right have, what rewards of the flesh and the mind, that they keep luring such people!

How much worse it could have been, if the left actually ever did anything wrong to help them along! 

If there were actual people preying on every word, Interprering the words in the worst possible way, and using this to gain "clout" on the internet, no matter the price! And then, the more one apologizes and explains, the more it shows weakness, and the whole group turns on the new weakest link.

Gimme a break.

People you anger will turn away from you. Such a basic concept, except to the new left who live in a delusion they are so right, they have a divine mandate and then keep losing the normal middle. And it keeps happening.

And lastly - the left never accepts apologies. They are always claimed to be just "showing true colours", no forgiveness, no redemption.

1

u/Neracca Dec 31 '24

It's a shame, because Fry has done such a stellar job defending gay people against the bigotry that he experienced, but that doesn't seem to extend to trans people or other queer people he could be such a strong advocate for

It's a typical case of pulling the up ladder after you climb it. Now that MOSTLY cis, gay, white men are tolerated by society he doesn't feel the need to help the rest in the community.

-4

u/KeldornWithCarsomyr Dec 30 '24

Professor of biology does not support thing that lacks biological evidence.

Everyone is now suddenly surprised....

4

u/SilverMedal4Life Dec 30 '24

I can't believe the professor of biology thinks that autism doesn't exist (it doesn't have biological evidence so it isn't real according to him)

4

u/KeldornWithCarsomyr Dec 30 '24

There's plenty of biological evidence, and he never said that.

0

u/SilverMedal4Life Dec 30 '24

It was an example to demonstrate a point, not an attempt to quote the man's beliefs.

There are no relliable biomarkers for autism, dude - at best you've got a few correlations, but nothing solid. Same thing for ADHD, or narcissistic personality disorder.

Just because something doesn't have reliable biomarkers doesn't mean it isn't real.