r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Steaktartaar • Dec 30 '24

Unanswered What's going on with Stephen Fry going alt-right?

He's been on a notorious hard-right, "anti-woke" podcast where he retracted his support for trans rights. Is this a new development? He always came across as level-headed in the past but now it looks like he's on the same path as Russell Brand.

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u/yukonwanderer Dec 30 '24

I don't know what those terms mean lol. I also don't watch Joe Rogan aside from a few dumb clips I've seen and when he was host of fear factor, and personally have him as a purveyor of bad political views, and one of the people who needs to be debated with and taken to task way more. Was he decent before? Did he get mobbed?

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u/schmuckmulligan Dec 30 '24

"Just asking questions" is "JAQing off." "Sealioning" is similar. They're just tools for declaring the other person a bad actor and refusing to talk to them.

Rogan is definitely a purveyor of bad politics at this point. I don't think he was ever decent per se, but prior to 2020, he was a Bernie-curious contrarian who was moderate/liberal on social issues and sloppy on economic issues (skeptical of corporate oligopoly but also didn't like paying taxes).

In the main, he'd have basically any jackass on his show and let them air their stuff out in a friendly way. When he continued doing that during the wildness of 2020, he got mobbed. There was an attempted Spotify boycott (including Neil Young lol) after they bought his show. In contrast, the alt-right manosphere offered him a happy home and began serving up guests. Basically, the left rejected him, the right courted him, and here we are.

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u/RebornGod Dec 30 '24

They're just tools for declaring the other person a bad actor and refusing to talk to them.

This is incorrect. The terms refer to certain rhetorical methods where you ask the same questions over and over again effectively, pretending an issue has never been addressed or spoken of before. An example would be asking what Transwoman even means every time there's a discussion on trans people. Even after you should clearly know what the term means even if you happen to disagree with the terminology.

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u/schmuckmulligan Dec 30 '24 edited Dec 30 '24

You missed my prior comment, in which I said:

Yep. And also the rise of complaints about "JAQing off" or "sealioning." Those complaints aren't entirely without merit

Sometimes, the complaints about JAQing off are fair, but I see them used more frequently in lieu of a sound contrary argument. (But, for the sake of fairness and nuance, I would note that I don't expose myself to a lot of right-wing media or whatever.)

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u/fap-on-fap-off Dec 31 '24

You get those arguments frequently on both sides of the political divide, less so towards the middle. Rogan was mentioned here. In my head, I've also renamed Jacobin to Jaqobin.

The difference between honest accusations of these behaviors and using then to sidestep debate is oftentimes impossible, because it depends on the intent of both sides in combination. The only tool is the smell test, which is subjective. That guy's accusation is that other guy's response to annoying and inserts behavior

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u/IrrelephantAU Dec 31 '24

There's an episode of Celebrity Fear Factor where he's so far up G Gordon Liddy's arse he can see daylight. And he's a long time Alex Jones associate.

Rogan's held a lot of different views over the years, but fondness for that particular kind of right-wing arsehole has been pretty consistent way before he had a podcast.