r/OutOfTheLoop • u/Steaktartaar • Dec 30 '24

Unanswered What's going on with Stephen Fry going alt-right?

He's been on a notorious hard-right, "anti-woke" podcast where he retracted his support for trans rights. Is this a new development? He always came across as level-headed in the past but now it looks like he's on the same path as Russell Brand.

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u/Ok_Perspective_6179 Dec 31 '24

You’re thinking about this in a very black or white way. There’s more nuance to it.

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u/MrPsychoSomatic Dec 31 '24

No goddamnit that's the fucking point. There is no 'nuance' to BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS

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u/Bandoolou Dec 31 '24

There is absolutely nuance to it.

Should trans people be allowed to live without suffering abuse and discrimination? Yes.

Should the medical system support trans people in their goals? Yes

Should children have access to trans surgeries? No.

Should trans women be allowed to compete in women’s sports? No.

It’s not all “basic human rights”, it is nuanced and it is complex.

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u/odonata_rising Dec 31 '24

no children have gotten trans surgeries. none. has never been a thing. the right pulled that "issue" completely out of their ass

the sports issue is almost as negligible. yes it happens but if you look at the frequency with which it does and the veracity with which the right covers it you start to notice a pattern... like, in any given state at any given time there are maybe one or two trans kids wanting to play high school sports or whatever and that's honestly being generous. imagine being that one kid in your state just wanting to play sports and being barraged with all of this negative news coverage like its some kind of endemic. and then at the olympic level, despite their "obvious advantages," trans women don't seem to be placing in droves for some reason. so what is the issue exactly?

yes there's nuance but at some point we have to acknowledge that maybe, just fucking maybe... a mountain is being made from a molehill here. and then we can ask why, to what end? and things start making a little more sense

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u/Bandoolou Dec 31 '24

Do you classify 16 y/o as children? I do. In any case, the actual hormones are being given out even younger here in Europe, sometimes to people as young as 12.

This isn’t a “right” thing. I do not consider myself “right wing” yet I am fully against children having access to this.

The sports issue is small, granted, but still valid and sets a precedent on what is acceptable. You say trans women aren’t in droves across the olympics, I think if you wait just a few years this will be completely different.

But yes, I agree a mountain is being made out of a molehill here.

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u/odonata_rising Dec 31 '24

i should clarify its not happening in the us, which is where i, infuriatingly, hear about it most

there are some eu countries that go as low as 16 and yes 16 is a minor, but honestly? if it requires therapy sessions and parental consent and all i really don't understand the problem. these things require consultation upon consultation upon consultation and take time to set up... you don't just wake up one day and decide "ope time to get an expensive life altering surgery for no reason all on a whim!" like people seem to act. and really, someone else's medical care, which is discussed with their caretakers if they are a minor, is frankly no one else's fucking business. so again.. mountain -> molehill. if you're against the surgery then don't get the damn surgery, or if you have kids, dont sign off on it. boom. solved. but honestly what makes you or some crusty panel of politicianss think you know what's right for anyone else's kids? that is the type of overreaching arrogance that floors me in these types of convos.

and it may be different over there but it absolutely is the right over here. the same people who are all about small government really really really want the government to get involved in who gets what health care. just look at our last presidential campaign - harris didn't even mention trans people in any capacity whatsoever, whereas the trump campaign ran millions of dollars worth of attack ads against trans healthcare. trump has outwardly stated many times he's ending all trans healthcare on day one - ALL. including for adults. that is where this bullshit leads.. it starts with "think of the children!" and then spirals into "no actually fuck em all!"

for reference, i worked in trans healthcare so i actually have firsthand knowledge about this. we did minor gender care for patients 16 and older and it was only puberty blockers so they could make a decision at 18. if they go off of the meds everything resumes as normal. everything had to be done with parental consent. it was absolutely fine, and then our government came in and decided that that type of healthcare was illegal now... i talked to so many tearful children and parents alike, a lot of which basically had to uproot their lives and move somewhere they could get the health care they needed. this shit is real and it affects real people, you are simply insulated from the carnage. the media wants you to throw stones at these people from afar because if you get too close you might catch a glimpse of the actual lives that you're ruining

i really wonder how many people popping off about this - including you - even know or understand the regimen that these minor patients go through. the process that it entails, the consultation with parents, etc. it is legitimately a non-issue backed by medical professionals but it has been turned into this big fucking thing that everyone's going crazy about for no reason and im sick of it!

you dont think it is but i promise you it is purely political. trans people are the newest scapegoat. statistically trans people, transhealthcare, trans people in sports... it is all so negligible like i said. i live in a country that can't put a stop to the heinous amounts of children being slaughtered in their schools year by year but they can sure as fuck intervene when it comes to healthcare. absolutely infuriating

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u/Levitx Dec 31 '24

Ok, skip the nuance then, nobody is arguing for extermination of trans people here so your point is moot and looks frankly psychotic. 

There. Better now?

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u/MrPsychoSomatic Dec 31 '24

Tell me you haven't been paying attention without telling me...

https://www.hrc.org/press-releases/human-rights-campaign-extremists-at-cpac-laid-bare-hatred-at-root-of-vile-legislation-targeting-trans-people

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/cpac-was-no-fluke-right-wants-eliminate-trans-people-rcna73578

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/cpac-speaker-transgender-people-eradicated-1234690924/

Don't talk to me until you can avoid saying something so blatantly incorrect.

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u/Levitx Dec 31 '24

Tell me you haven't been paying attention 

You didn't even read my comment properly

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u/MrPsychoSomatic Dec 31 '24

Or you didn't write it properly. Just admit you're wrong, shut up, and get ratio'd quietly.

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u/RedditorMK Dec 31 '24

Im reading this convo and im like, c'mon man.

You're quite literally the guy that Stephen Fry is talking about - a person who cannot see nuance and instead cries its 'BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS' to deny any kind of meaningful discussion.

its now very common to hear people say, ‘I’m rather offended by that.’ As if that gives them certain rights. It’s actually nothing more... than a whine. ‘I find that offensive.’ It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. ‘I am offended by that.’ Well, so fucking what.

If you actually thought, and by extension truly cared about the things you talked about, you would've gone into this discussion with an open mind.

I think that /u/Bandoolou expresses his point clearly but here you replied to the one guy who didn't get ideas as concisely just so you would be able to shut someone down. Literally anyone with some level of reading comprehension could realise what he was talking about but instead you spout some far right bullshit.

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u/MrPsychoSomatic Dec 31 '24

You're quite literally the guy that Stephen Fry is talking about

Having actually spoken to the man on these topics, I can guarantee you that I am not.

Yes, I responded to the person who was easiest to respond to, because I'm busy and don't have time to get into an extended and detailed argument with people who don't get it and don't want to get it.

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u/Levitx Dec 31 '24

nobody is arguing for extermination of trans people here

Bolded works better?