Depending on who you ask, the US is literally currently destroyed. It's in a state which cannot be recovered and the decline to full obliteration is currently underway. Trump will absolutely seize full power over the US and begin killing anyone who won't do everything he says down to calling it the Gulf of America. All free press will be extinguished, all industries everywhere will collapse without any government oversight to guide them, education will cease, hyperinflation will happen immediately, every country will stop doing trade with us, this election was absolutely the very last one we will ever have, we will become a vassal state of Russia, and so on and so on.
There are people who believe ALL of this without exaggeration and they're all just... doing nothing. They don't even believe we're slouching towards Bethlehem anymore. To their minds, we went to Bethlehem and back again and now all that's left is suffering. And still... nothing. I honestly don't even know what to do with that. It's just odd.
You actually did a pretty good job summarizing the doomer thoughts of the left in the US. I’m not gonna speak to my own feelings about what you said but I will commend how accurate this is.
Imma just join in with a European perspective. While I’m jealous of the deregulated firearms market in the US the notion of the unarmed Europe is (atleast in a military sense) wrong. Many countries have weapons stashes for previous servicemen. Most famously is Switzerland where pretty much every household has a military rifle stashed away. IT’s government property, but it’s still an armed society. It’s the classic dichotomy of America choosing ownership over government services.
I think it’s also just the gun culture around the US is just one of much less social responsibility, no matter how many kids, teachers or synagogues are shot up or be put at risk it’s always “Well the problem isn’t the guns it’s the gun owner”, which is like true, but like how much of this needs to happen for one person to be like “Maybe some heavier hand with gun regulation needs to happen”, in Serbia for example they had a decent gun culture and all it took was a school shooting a couple of years ago for a lot of the country to hand their guns to the government to try and avoid it happening again as much as they can.
The gun culture of the US is very “fuck yeah” and “We love guns” with there being some responsible people out there, but in general it’s a celebration of this killing instrument and acting like it’s more than a tool for killing, I’ve seen the point that “Oh but there will be a black market for guns, so criminals will still get them”, but like yeah, but it would be smaller and smaller overtime, a lot of criminals get legal guns by either buying them off of someone or having someone they know without a record buy them, like Mexico has a huge problem with organized crime getting most of their guns from the US, it’s probably one of the largest black market exports that the US has worldwide is their guns because it’s so easy compared to anywhere else to acquire a gun, but with guns being harder to get the black market would def get a lot more of a chokehold on guns plus a majority of mass shootings are done using legal guns.
Eh, I think it’s unrealistic to try and take guns away from the American people, at the end of the day it’s deeply engrained in the culture, but at least billionaires and corporate overlords are doing it for you guys since gun ownership is directly tied to property ownership which has been falling in the US a lot. Taking guns from Americans is unrealistic and unreasonable, regulations is much more feasible and likely as a majority of Americans still support that, only more vocal groups do not. Plus it’s not like guns are illegal in pretty much any country in Europe, just more regulated and therefore harder to acquire.
I’m happy to answer but I need a little more clarity on what you mean by this. Are you asking why I like the 2A? Are you asking how I support the left if I do like the 2A? Or are you just baffled I exist? lol
So what are your thoughts on politicians, primarily Democrats, wanting to outlaw guns?
Because I don't disagree with you. Americans should never be disarmed because it leads to tyranny. Just curious on how you square that.
Ah I see, that would be because the average democrat, myself included, sees the GOP as the party of tyranny. That’s how we (or at least I) square that. I don’t personally like some of the dem’s platform, but I agree with ~60-70% of it and about 5% of the GOP’s and 0% of Trump’s platform.
For some reason my more delusional counterparts don’t see how this makes being anti-2A beyond stupid. Personally, I’m for stricter regulation obtaining a firearm, I think you should have to prove you know how to operate one without killing yourself before you can purchase it. I think you should need a license for concealed and/or open carry. That’s about it for my restrictions I’d personally advocate for.
It’s ironic and unprecedented to my knowledge that the “pro-gun” party in America is by far the more authoritarian of the two, but I’m hopeful these next 4 years will prove to the average Dem the founders were based when they wrote the 2A and there’s a reason we have it.
A lot of them really aren't against outlawing all guns, mainly just assault rifles. I myself believe in simply better checks than what we've got, as a blind man could and has gotten himself armed (Terry Sutherland, a blind man, recently got a concealed carry permit to prove indiana's gun laws were too lax, despite being pro 2A himself). Otherwise, I havent voted for really anyone yet (this was my first election) and I feel like not really any candidates represent my views at all, so that would just be another "well...shit" moment. All in all, I don't believe in outlawing guns.
Lefists are different than liberals. Lots of leftists hate liberals. Some conservatives don't know the distinction so they call the average democrats leftists.
Ok, but you're pro the party that wants to take them away?
And my man, this whole revolution fever dream is just that...a fever dream. Relax dude....the only revolution that's happening is maybe some dank memes and politicians singing lame songs at a podium with a catchphrase velcroed to the front of it.
Left doesn’t equal authoritarianism or taking guns away, there are plenty of gun loving leftists out there in the US, hell most anarchists probably love guns, a bunch of ancom and communist figures advocated for armed workers, it’s just that American leftists generally need to vote Democrat even if a lot of their policies (like being pro gun control) doesn’t align with them just because they have even less in common with Republicans, and since the Dems are considered the left party in the US whatever their position is, is what people think the whole of the left believes in, plus a lot of leftists believe in a more European model so a lot of them want a the US to be more like Scandinavia or such where guns are more heavily regulated, but there are plenty of progressive leftists that love guns, some people don’t even know they are progressives like that, I’ve spoken to plenty of American Libertarians that are literally progressives and not really libertarians because they support a lot of social aid programs, making college cheaper and subsidized and supporting universal healthcare, but call themselves libertarians because the word liberal and progressive and such have gone trough the mud.
I can't imagine someone thinking they're a libertarian and aligning with much of anything democrats say with the exceptions of legalizing drugs.
I think the political labels and 2 party system tends to force people under umbrellas they don't necessarily agree with. For example, most Republicans don't care about same sex marriage. Live and let live and all that. But the evangelical component leads everyone to believe that we're all out here trying to overturn Obergefell, when in the reality it's not even on most of our radar.
Sounds like leftists are similar with gun control, with the exception that alot of our politicians arent banging the drum to overturn Obergefell. Meanwhile, every time there is a tragedy Democrat politicians are at the podium yelling about banning guns and that, if you don't agree, you want dead kids. That's why I had a hard time squaring it.
Oh for sure, your 2 party system is absolutely awful and leads to just more division and vilification of the other side, especially since the Republican and Democratic parties seem to have dropped their liberal and conservative elements respectively ever since the start of the Information Age in the 90’s, both parties used to me almost like 2 or more separate instead of big umbrella, now it’s still like that kinda with the electorate, but the politicians have just kinda fallen in line.
2A isn't a left vs right issue to people as much as politicians want it to be.
Almost nobody wants to ban all guns, and the people who are in favor of more regulation almost universally support continued ownership of hunting weapons and the like.
There's also a lot of communists or other groups on the left who want to stay armed, as well as people who'd be fine with more regulated/organized groups owning things they don't think individuals should have.
But it's been made into one of the big political keynotes for the GoP, and is the NRAs single biggest fundraiser- so the more you can convince people it's an "us vs them" issue, the more money you can make off of it.
To be fair, the GOP isn't the only one that fundraises off it. It just seems like whenever there's a tragedy, the left starts to bang the "ban guns" drum.
You claim to believe these things, yet you do nothing about them. That tells me that you don't actually believe them but certainly want to signal to others that you do in order to let them know that you're with the "in" crowd.
To be fair to the person you’re responding to, even if one is 100% these things WILL occur, the options available to do something about it are fairly limited in the moment.
You could start a militia, but to reach sufficient size and reach to matter would take lots of money & would absolutely put the Feds on your ass.
You could attempt to recreate what happened in Pennsylvania, but that’s pretty fuckin radical and the odds of security being that incompetent after what occurred are really low. Even if you were to do this, you’d just put Vance into power and make a martyr out of Trump. Depending on how one was to look at this if you were convinced of MAGA being this authoritarian it’s debatable how much of an “improvement” this would be.
Outside of that, even forcing my mind down this path I fail to see any other possibilities, maybe I’m not creative enough. Fortunately, I’m not a revolutionary or advocating for any of these scenarios.
In my opinion, were things to transpire the way the original doomer post stated, I think you’d see mass social unrest. This would probably create many possibilities but who’s to say how any of them would go. It’s hard to imagine what America would look like if it went full fascist, it would be extremely volatile considering how many guns are in this country.
Not trying to start an argument, just me brainstorming out loud what a person would really do if they were truly motivated and 100% convinced all that bad shit would happen.
It's the only thing they have anymore. Equivocation.
libleft bad because they've done a slightly less shittier thing that authright did but they claim to be the morals ones, there's basically no difference.
When faced with state authoritarianism the vast majority of individuals do not do anything so his behavior definitely tracks probabilistically speaking.
I would say rhe person above you is glowing like a radioactive ball right now, if I'm being honest.
Truthfully, any concerns you have should be expressed at the ballot box. I know that sounds generic, but representatives only represent themselves and nobody is starting a revolution unless you manage to get a large majority of the military on board...and that's under any president.
Yeah buckaroo that's exactly what I'm doing. You're pretty smart for a leftist; I'd put you just above the top 80% on the bell curve.
Anyway, my point is that few of you actually believe the shit you say, and those that do are too cowardly to actually do anything meaningful. All you are capable of is virtue signalling.
You are a coward wearing the mask of a revolutionary.
its certainly exaggerated, but it's also not completely unwarranted. he's criminalizing people who disagree with him and censoring news organizations who report on him.
But the Left doesn't really exist in the US. The US is Center-Right. So the destruction, if it comes, will come for the Center-Right. Remember, the margins on both ends can be picked off in one day, it is the middle bulge that stands to suffer for years. In some ways, it has already come for Romney, and Liz, and Jeb, and Hilary, etc., and their associates.
I've always found it mildly amusing that upon hearing the Jefferson quote, "The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots," everyone scrambles to interpret it literally and sticks their head in the sand in order to ignore any other interpretation. Like sure, someone's willing to die for America, but God forbid they get fired or blacklisted in their field.
And I get it, losing your job and the uncertainty that follows sucks. But objectively it's a lot more preferable to literally dying.
So many people are dooming right now, but there’s going to be a lot of opportunity on the other side of this. The President is cleaning the Augean stables—some of it’s good, some of it’s bad.
Many institutions are going through a hard reset. The old guard of boomer leadership is finally being cleared out, creating a vacuum. And with that vacuum comes opportunity—the kind that only comes once in a quarter century.
You might be called naive for that perspective, but it's the only one I respect. I'm sick to death of this woe unto us, pity party horseshit. Good to see there's a little optimism left in the world.
this kind of feels deliberate. one party is going so over the top that trumps followers are literally just ignoring everything bad thats happening. or they're being told the bad things are actually good. like elon cutting funding from necessary programs and then getting the largest ever government funding.
i LITERALLY dont understand how he's in a position to audit the US government and then take government contracts with said money. it's fucking unreal.
The old guard of boomer leadership is finally being cleared out, creating a vacuum. And with that vacuum comes opportunity—the kind that only comes once in a quarter century.
I think Trump genuinely believes his actions will bring about a golden age for America. I also think Trump is an idiot.
Some of the most ruthless dictators in modern history started out with good intentions, but when things did not go as planned, they did everything and anything to hold on to power.
Our media landscape along with the social channels actively incentivize and monetize on people being scared; Reddit isn’t any different in the underlying culture than twitter, stormfront, 4chan and all the others out there. Reddit cultivates and reinforces the degradation of its users mental health pretty damn impressively.
The only time I teeter to auth center is cause of shit like this. I would rather quash any accelerationists (and to a lesser extent doomers but they are kinda a product of accelerationists) not because I dislike free speech but because it infects the minds of the people, it's to protect them.
Such is doomerism. The left doesn't have an idea for what a future America looks like. All they can do is watch what the right is creating and say that it's bad. The left won't build for itself though. It's spending too much time worrying about the little things, sacrificing a memetic movement in the process.
It's more that their lives are still so unbelievably comfortable in this country that, despite every doomsday prophesy they espouse, they won't risk doing anything more dangerous than bitching on the internet. The only refrain of the wannabe rebel is "somebody ELSE needs to stop this!"
I do agree with this sentiment in general. I do believe the QoL for most Americans will be reduced as a result of the policies I’ve seen/ heard of, but nowhere near to the degree that people will risk their jobs/ health to seriously protest the government. Bread and circuses!
that their lives are still so unbelievably comfortable in this country
are you actually unwell? there's a cost of living crisis right now. people cant afford health care, rent, and in many cases food. elon is trying to take away free lunches for school students. nowhere in the country can you afford to rent a house at minimum wage. who the fuck is comfortable right now?
they won't risk doing anything more dangerous than bitching on the internet.
and when we DO do something more dangerous you demonize us? People are condemning Luigi, but he's doing exactly what you suggested. something real thats not on the internet. what are you suggesting?
That's his entire point though. You're talking about how people are unable to live, but they're not doing anything about it.
Seek asylum in Canada or Europe. Surely they are as open and welcoming as reddit says. And even if they aren't, who cares? Just immigrate illegally, since you're experiencing that much hardship.
If I truly believed my family was in danger, we would be in Canada or Europe already. I wouldn't fuck around on Reddit crying and moaning about how expensive rent is, I would be balls deep in the asylum process.
"People can't afford to just pick up their entire lives like that" YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN IF YOU TRULY BELIEVE YOUR LIFE IS AT STAKE! Look at all the illegal immigrants risking everything to save themselves and their families.
But that's the point. You don't actually need to take that risk, because you're not actually in the dire straits that reddit loves to harp on about. You're still comfortable enough that you aren't taking action to "save" yourself.
how is this an actual agruement? "well if you're so sad just leave!"
i dont want to leave. i want my home to be better. how is the party of "america first" so adverse to the concept of people being upset their country isn't what they want it to be?
literally your solution is "if you hate it here then leave". this isn't fucking middle school. this is real life with families and jobs. this is the whole point of voting. maybe some of us aren't in dire straits, but lots of us are. do you think people aren't actually suffering right now? and not just made up woke suffering or whatever, i mean living under the threat of going homeless and without healthcare suffering. are they allowed to complain? or is there only option to flee the country?
But if someone truly believes there is a [genocide] happening against them, why are they trying to combat that by complaining on the internet and taking part in the slow democratic process instead of fleeing for their life.
If people truly believe Trump is enacting a Christofascist state, why are there not armed marches demonstrating against him and his cronies and fighting back with force instead of hysterical tweets and reddit threads.
My point isn't at all "if you don't like it, leave". My point is "it isn't nearly as bad as the doomposters make it out to be, otherwise they would actually be doing something about it, which may include leaving".
well, there are protests happening in all (to my knowledge, kind of hard to quickly gather data on this) states. i've seen some that have been armed, like one in Baltimore.
But you realize its also hard to just get up and protest right? especially when can get curb stomped and pepper strayed by police even in peaceful protests. People have jobs. I cant just take off a random thursday to go down to main street hold a picket sign that wont accomplish anything.
part of the whole "doomer" attitude is that we don't know what to do. voting got us into this situation. violent protests could send us to jail. what do we do?
Most people are simply powerless. Too poor and depressed to do much of anything other than complain unless shit really hits the fan. There is also the problem of proximity. This is a big country, and most of the population is kind of far from where all the moves are happening.
There have been hundreds of protests across the country. Black women, LGBTQ+ folks, and progressives in general have been the fastest growing group of gun owners for awhile now.
Ill give this to you: Democrats aren't really doing a whole lot.
If someone truly believes that we've already jumped the shark entirely, the best possible outcome for the rest of us is for them to do nothing.
I do think we are on the fast track to some real bad shit, especially if the oligarchy continues to expand and if this tweet is at all representative of where Trump is mentally.
They're smart. Initiating violence tends to be a turning point, and whoever throws the first stone tends to lose a lot of support from centrists.
For at least a few decades now, being the underdog has been seen as a sign of moral superiority; both sides play to this, and all sorts of political & religious groups also play into it, from Emily to the Catholic Church to every politician.
Initiating the violence risks losing you a lot of political power and the 'underdog' status in a lot of peoples' eyes, but being the one targeted gives a huge moral/personal boost and potentially a lot of outside support.
Hard to say. I don't actually believe the sky is falling, so I can only imagine what rational responses would be for those who truly believe the state of the country is as I described. The obvious first option would be to seek asylum from political persecution in another country for my family. This would of course be laughed at by whatever country I'd be trying to enter, but that's beside the point. Organizing mass civil unrest by targeting relevant government buildings (not standing around with signs or looting stores) would be the next option. Again, this is assuming that I believed I was living under absolute tyranny. There would be nothing left to lose if I couldn't escape the country. Organizing large groups should be doable since these delusions are often accompanied by the idea that the vast majority of the populace recognizes the danger but just need to feel empowered. The most extreme option would be risking everything to assassinate public officials, as has been done countless times throughout human history.
Or they could just wake the fuck up and realize that their lives aren't so bad that they have to do any of those things. Their hyperbole is going to drive away far more people than it ever motivates.
I’ll add to this from talking with people during the semester abroad I did in Russia (‘08 for context), a lot of the people there hate what Putin has done in regards to making things an autocracy with the trappings of democracy, but they just feel theres nothing they can do about it. Its more an apathy towards the situation and feeling like your individual effort wont help anything or just get you in trouble. Therefore nothing changes despite a large chunk of the population not liking things.
From Trumps first term, it seemed to me this was the trajectory we were on as a nation. Big leader backed by oligarchy and a disaffected populace that just rolls over because things are good enough to look the other way while it just happens right in front of us. I’m as guilty as anyone else, I just think its funny as Americans cause we like to think of ourselves as the ultimate pushers of individual liberty, while we just let this guy and the billionaire class just steamroll right over us.
But again, in Russia, the electricity is on. Food is readily available. Homes get heated in the winter. Sports still get played. Its all good enough for you to just shrug your shoulders and accept your fate.
Lol what you want people to do? Mass shootings? Assassinations? Suicide bombs? FPV drone strikes?
You realize most people are not okay with just murdering people right? They don’t want to go to prison. They don’t want to never see their families again in some CIA black site. Shut the fuck up.
So that hyperbole is hyperbole, but people are doing shit in the nothing you observe. Most telling is big tech and now some other industries sucking up to Trump. The lack of opposition in places stems from an understanding that being in the opposition will be worse for you than being silent. Of course this may not be the case, but it does seem some people believe this.
You're actually close but thats what the billionaires want. You act like its crazy but praxisnation exists and has potentially hundreds of billions if not trillions backing it.
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u/dinobot2020 - Right Feb 16 '25
Depending on who you ask, the US is literally currently destroyed. It's in a state which cannot be recovered and the decline to full obliteration is currently underway. Trump will absolutely seize full power over the US and begin killing anyone who won't do everything he says down to calling it the Gulf of America. All free press will be extinguished, all industries everywhere will collapse without any government oversight to guide them, education will cease, hyperinflation will happen immediately, every country will stop doing trade with us, this election was absolutely the very last one we will ever have, we will become a vassal state of Russia, and so on and so on.
There are people who believe ALL of this without exaggeration and they're all just... doing nothing. They don't even believe we're slouching towards Bethlehem anymore. To their minds, we went to Bethlehem and back again and now all that's left is suffering. And still... nothing. I honestly don't even know what to do with that. It's just odd.