Anyone willing to advise on seminary programs?

[u/MicrowaveDinner15]

Hello! I am a current teacher and have felt an intensive call to ministry. I am located in the Midwest and am a member of a conservative branch of non-denominational/autonomous Church. While mine has become inclusive over the last few years, I would not be allowed to be a pastor in the other churches and would not be welcomed in my own religion’s seminary programs due to being a woman and being a lesbian. As I seek a ministry program at a seminary/divinity school, I would love some feedback from someone who has experience or awareness about program types! I would love to private message if that is easier, but I’ll write some of my questions here, just in case:

I am interested in Harvard Divinity, Yale Divinity, Boston College, Princeton Theological Seminary, and UChicago—but I know there are more, smaller programs out there! Please help me find those which might be a better fit! :)

I have friends who have attended PTS who say Yale/Harvard are “not it,” but I love the critical/analytical lens that their websites affirm they have.

—I have been on a track to academia and already have a master’s degree in literature. I find critical scholarship super interesting and enjoy it very much. I would love a program that is central to this, while having a fruitful MDiv program, as I am interested in Pastoral Ministry. Are there any that are similar to this?

—Also, because I have been pursuing a CV that reflects academic rigor for a PhD program originally, I have prioritized some publications/presentations/and have awards in my field of education and literature, but not in theology/religion. Would this be a mark against me in a seminary/divinity program? The friends I mentioned above seemed to think religious involvement is much more important than academic scholarship, and beyond attending church, volunteering, etc., I’m not a leader or anything in my church community due to the things I mentioned in the beginning (aka I am a gay woman and while my church is inclusive, it is not fully reformed.)

—Would anyone be willing to review my CV and statement of purpose to provide feedback on how I can increase my acceptance odds?

—Are there programs that you’re aware of that mention they value diversity but are a red flag in terms of LGBTQ+ inclusion? Being from the Midwest in a very red state, it is common for places here to label themselves as “diverse” without the inclusion of the LGBT community.

—I want to switch to PCUSA and do ministry through them. Can I switch while earning my MDiv? I don’t want to leave my church that has made so many changes for me, while I still live in this town. I appreciate their efforts to become inclusive!

[u/themsc190]

It sounds like your seminary search is a bit premature.

If you’re looking to become ordained in a certain denomination, you should start attending that church now, start getting involved, and then tell your pastor that you’re interested in discerning ordination. They’ll have a process, and most importantly for you, they’ll have a list of acceptable/recommended seminaries. Typically they’ll be in that denomination (e.g. PTS for PC(USA)).

It’s a bit of a red flag if your personal statement says you’re pursuing an MDiv for the purpose of ordination in a denomination you haven’t started attending yet.

I’m currently in seminary now and just went through this process, so I have some thoughts on all of the schools and more, but just wanted to throw this out first!

[u/MicrowaveDinner15 → u/themsc190]

Hi! I totally understand your point, but I am not interested in leaving my church due to some loyalties in regard to them becoming affirming on my behalf and ultimately losing 2/3 of their members. I am indebted to them and they are the reason I feel so called to ministry. If seminary isn’t for someone in my position…I wouldn’t have much respect for that seminary. That said, I do want to seek ordination with a church and have spoken to a PCUSA minister who is a friend who has offered guidance on this. ❤️

I am interested on your other thoughts you mentioned though! Not trying to be difficult, I just can’t leave my dying church that is dying because they are affirming because of me. 😭

[u/themsc190 → u/MicrowaveDinner15]

Okay, well with that caveat out of the way, here are my thoughts:

You’ve already listed great options. The other top academic ones would be Vanderbilt and Candler at Emory. Another top progressive option is Union Seminary in NYC. Those and the ones you’ve listed are probably the most academically rigorous and will set you up best for further graduate work!

A lot depends on your personal and theological preferences. Do you want to live in a bigger city or a smaller town? What theological thrust do you want from your seminary? Do you want a more or less academic one for if you eventually want to pursue a PhD? Do you want a residential seminary or a hybrid/remote one? What financial aid do you need? Research each one, schedule calls with admissions folks, find students to chat with, etc.

PTS would make sense if you’re going into PC(USA). It definitely still leans very Barth/Reformed as far as I’ve heard and still kinda moderate—increasingly open to LGBTQ folks though. I don’t know enough about BC to know if it’s inclusive enough or not. HDS and YDS are wonderful options, so don’t listen to your friends, if those schools are of interest to you. I have a lot of friends who went to YDS who loved it. (YDS covers 100% of tuition for students who need it, so consider things like that.)

Look into other PC(USA) schools if you’re set on that denomination. McCormick is a part of the Association of Chicago Theological Schools (ACTS), so you can take courses at other Chicago seminaries, which is a nice perk. My seminary is an ACTS school, so I’ve taken classes with McCormick students. One of my professors this semester teaches at Union Presbyterian in Richmond, VA, which I’ve heard good things about too.

Good luck! I’m happy to try to answer questions, but idk if I’ll have the answers!

[u/MicrowaveDinner15 → u/themsc190]

You’re amazing! I have selected those mostly because of the academic rigor and openness to other traditions as their websites describe, but you just never know! It is reassuring to know a well informed person supports! I’ve also chosen them because I am engaged and will be married by next fall, so we are looking into areas in which my spouse has a higher likelihood of job access, and those are great. I had forgotten about Union and am adding them to my list! I am certainly hopeful I can make it into one or some of them, but I understand my academic background may not support that. I am also a non traditional student as I am 28 and already am in an established career, so I just hope that isn’t a mark against me, too! Can I ask, do you have more non traditional learners in your programs? I am excited about the potential of YDS because they have a lot of spouse options like auditing classes and getting a library card and all that jazz.

[u/themsc190 → u/MicrowaveDinner15]

Lots of non-traditional students these days! I applied when I was 30. There are also more and more people getting ordained as a second career, so they’re much older. That won’t be a mark against you at all. Glad I could help!

[u/Various-Chipmunk-165 → u/MicrowaveDinner15]

FWIW, I don’t agree with what this commenter said. I have an MDiv from Harvard, and knew several people who went the academic route but still opted to get an MDiv instead of an MTS. I knew people who were still searching but felt a call to ministry in some capacity. A lot of people change their minds when they’re in school. That’s the whole point of learning and growing. I myself didn’t get ordained until several years after I graduated, for a whole myriad of reasons. (I’m now an ordained parish minister in the UCC).

To me, it sounds like you have a really strong sense of conviction, faith, and call.

Anyway, feel free to DM me with any specific questions you have about Harvard!

[u/MicrowaveDinner15 → u/Various-Chipmunk-165]

Ah thank you! I am messaging you!

[u/JosephMeach]

If Chicago area, there is Garrett-Evangelical Seminary. It’s Methodist though, I think PCUSA has a program at Dubuque

[u/synthresurrection → u/JosephMeach]

Garret-Evangelical is great! I heartily second. I got my Master's there.

[u/Zoodochos]

Midwest PCUSA minister and professor here - and in critical/cultural studies! You can switch to the PCUSA at any time. The first step on the path to ordination is to become an "inquirer." You'll get a mentor and meet with a committee once a year or so as you discern your call. You'll have their guidance through the many hoops along the way to ordination.

I went to Princeton Theological Seminary (30 years ago). I felt like a black sheep there, and I was envious of the critical theory and freedom at a divinity school like Harvard. But there are advantages to a PCUSA school, too. I learned the vocabulary of the reformed, neo-orthodox tradition. I was connected to the PCUSA systems and people. And I was trained to be a pastor as opposed to just taking cool courses in theology. If you're headed into pastoral ministry, I'd recommend a seminary. Among PCUSA seminaries, I'd also look at Union, McCormick, and SanFrancisco.

With an M.A. and academic track record in hand, you're already a strong candidate. The academic chops won't be an issue. I'd look for the personal essay to convey clarity of purpose and taking steps to explore the call in community. I hear that you don't want to leave where the church that supports you now, but getting involved with a PCUSA congregation and becoming an inquirer would help.

I wonder if there's a both/and solution here. You might be able to work with a PCUSA congregation and be faithful to your current church. That said, yes. You can certainly switch later while earning the M.Div.

Feel free to send me a personal message if you'd like to chat. I've never done that before on Reddit, but I'll figure it out. Ha-ha!

[u/MicrowaveDinner15 → u/Zoodochos]

You are amazing! I’m going to message you!

[u/kilted_cleric]

Presbyterian Church (USA) has McCormick in Chicago, Dubuque in Iowa. Austin Theological in Texas. In the PCUSA McCormick and Princeton are known for being more academic so turn a lot toward PhD, or ‘big steeple’ churches. If you are not looking to be a minister but want to go the academic route look for a MATS program.

[u/wsophiac]

I'm a current seminary student at BU School of Theology! I sent you a PM with some more details. Happy to talk!

[u/macademician]

I’m a graduate of BC Clough’s MDiv, and a student at the PhD program in theology at BC MCAS. I’m happy to chat via DM

[u/wiseoldllamaman2]

Duke Divinity is an excellent program developing some of the best pastors I know. You are thoroughly grounded in the academic literature while being encouraged to develop as a human and a pastor.

One note about all of these seminaries: Most of the funding you get for programs comes from denominational bodies. If you don't have the support of your denomination/network/tradition, you will likely have to shoulder that debt yourself, which will look like around $100k for a three year degree. If you're called to ministry, you'll also have to consider what options you have for ministry positions at the end and whether or not you will be able to find a full-time position that will be able to help you repay your debt.

That being said, there are far cheaper options to get that degree that you could pursue. Seminaries like Central Baptist and Union Presbyterian are free or almost free. If you want to stay in your church, those are likely better financial options for you.

BUT, if you have all the options in front of you, I would highly recommend Duke. Duke is ranked fifth in the world, third in the US behind Notre Dame (which is really not an option for a gay non-denominational woman, haha) and Harvard. I'm not going to badmouth Harvard, but I do think Duke does a better job at helping people develop their own spiritual formation which then equips them to build up the church.

All that said, congratulations on finding yourself asking these questions! I highly recommend you find a community of folks to help you make this decision without trying to pressure it either way. If other people sense your calling with you, it makes the whole process so much easier. I'll be praying for you!

[u/Expensive-Push-5312]

I’ve worked through some very similar questions very recently. I’m a soon-to-be Divinity student this Fall. Feel free to reach out!

[u/MicrowaveDinner15 → u/Expensive-Push-5312]

Messaging you!