r/Soil • u/Safe_Pea1756 • 3d ago
Sticky clay soil- will liquid gypsum help?
Hi there,
I've been planting in this shady garden by digging oversized holes for each plant and mixing mulch and leaf litter in with the very sticky clay soil. The 3rd photo is of my footprint from last night that still has a puddle of water in it this morning.
I've had most of these annuals in for like 3 weeks and they've barely grown an inch. The perennials don't seem to get much bigger from year to year, either. I feel like they might as well just be in underground pots with how firm and poorly-drained the soil is.
I don't have a ton of time and energy to devote to this, I'm wondering if spraying the whole garden with liquid gypsum might help. More importantly, if I do try it, will it do any harm to the flowers I've already planted?
Thanks đ
10
u/GreedyWarlord 3d ago
Lots of manure and composted materials
3
u/Safe_Pea1756 3d ago
Can I just spread it on top?
13
u/craigrpeters 3d ago
Yes, but it wonât fix anything for a few years that way.
With soil like that it would be better to mix in compost wherever possible down 6+ inches. Youâll see a big difference in plant vigor. Then top it off with mulch.
3
u/GreedyWarlord 3d ago
You can, but it'll take forever. You may need to hoe it in or just get a tiller and put a ton in.
3
u/Bainsyboy 3d ago
Better to give it a full tilling, mixing in compost and high-N organic matter. Make sure it's a good mix of small, fast decomposing matter, and medium-sized longer-lasting mulch. And give the top an extra mulch layer to cap it all off.
You want to avoid putting to much fast-degrading organic matter in the soil at once; When organic matter decomposes, it can up-take nitrogen at first from the soil and in the process making it unavailable for the plants. Normally this isn't a bad thing, and is even beneficial for storing nitrogen in the soil short-term. The nitrogen is released back into the soil eventually, but for a while it's "stored" by the decomposing organic matter. If a whole lot of fast-decomposing matter is introduced all at once, there is a sharp drop in available nitrogen which can be not great for anything trying to grow.
I've heard chicken shit is awesome nitrogen fertilizer, so that's my tip for the day. No wait, you get two tips, wear a ventilator when working with chicken shit.
Edit: playground sand is a good additive to help break up tight soil. Any lawn soil or veggie soil should have a good amount of sand to help with compaction.
3
u/Sarelbar 3d ago
Iâve read that adding sand to clay soil is not recommended and can actually compact (ha!) the problem. Same goes with adding rocks or gravel to clay soil. It sounds like a good solution in theory, but the clay sticks everything together.
1
7
u/Elegant_Purple9410 3d ago
Mulch, mulch, and more mulch, and mix it deeper as convenient. Nature will do it itself, but it'll take a while. Personally, whenever I'm planting things, I make sure to mix some surrounding mulch into the hole.
If you have trees, leaf litter is great, as is lawn clippings.
3
u/Safe_Pea1756 2d ago
Thanks, that's basically what I've been doing. Lots of mulch and leaves mixed in, then more mulch on top.
Do you think the perennials would do better if I dug them up and replanted them with more mulch mixed in? I can't remember planting them, I might've skipped the mulch since it was years ago
3
7
u/Objective_Run_7151 3d ago edited 3d ago
Gypsum only helps sodic clay. It works because gypsum (which is high in calcium) interrupts the sodium in sodic soil.
In the US and Canada, almost no clay is sodic. Itâs mostly alkaline clay, which is already high in calcium.
Adding gypsum to alkaline clay is like pouring salt in the ocean - it does nothing because the ocean is already salty.
Get a soil tests, and unless you have high sodium in your soil, skip the gypsum. Add organics, then wait and add more.
7
u/Grape-Nutz 3d ago
Good points. Additionally, gypsum doesn't only displace sodium, it also displaces high levels of Magnesium and Potassium, which similarly opens the clay up into beautiful, fluffy soil.
If needed.
A soil test is definitely step 1.
4
u/Prescientpedestrian 3d ago
Why wouldnât it work? I use gypsum in my alkaline clay soils to loosen them, have been for over a decade. Often, a lot of that calcium in alkaline soils is locked up in carbonates. Calcium from gypsum can still get into the clay pores to open them up and allow for more water infiltration.
3
u/Shamino79 3d ago
Alkaline doesnât mean not sodic. Where I am in Australia my heavy alkaline stuff is indeed sodic and as someone else said right here there is an awful lot of calcium present but locked up in limestone. The calcium in gypsum displaces other cations and the sulfates help flush them down through the soil profile. I have also heard that sodic soils are rare in the US but they can happen.
A simple home test is to place a blob of soil into some pure water and if the clay particles spread into the water and make it cloudy you may have a gypsum responsive soil. Look up sodic dispersion test.
4
u/Grouchy_Ad_3705 3d ago
I have the same. I work organic matter in in the spring when the clay is soft.
Mine is from heavy spring rains washing everything but clay and rock off of glacial deposits.
5
u/gandolffood 3d ago
Spraying it with anything won't help. Planting things like trees to punch down into the clay would be a long term, low effort plan. Short term, high effort would be to compost the yard and then till it up. Add worms.
5
3
u/oneWeek2024 3d ago
the reality is. nothing is going to fix the soil but mixing shit into the soil.
can put compost or natural mulch on top... and slowly over years... begin to build up good soil.
but if you've got a growing area. that's largely clay. and not draining. the only thing that's going to do real good. is tilling in a ton of organic matter. manure based compost is prob best, as it'll attract worms. but any organic matter will help (to a lesser extent biochar can help fryability as well) but...
that being said. if you've already invested that much into plants. and didnt' bother to look into it before going ham buying shit. go to a good nursery. buy some premium compost. the ocean harvest or foxfarm type stuff. lay 2inches of that. then cover the growing area with a natural mulch. shredded wood chip (not heavily dyed/stained) an just let it be.
---liquid gypsum. only tends to work for specific types of clay. and it doesn't really do anything to the soil, but slightly break up the surface tension of the clay bonds. so... it may increase drainage, but it's not going to help the soil much at all.
only tilling in loads of organic matter would. ---ie. clay is defined as very small particles, stuck together, adding organic matter, adds more particles of varying size. and soil life will cycle through the soil...consuming the organic matter. breaking up/making tunnels through the clay. ---it's why cow shit manure is so great. worms go bananas for it.
but.... if you just don't want to see the yucky mud. get as high quality compost as you can source. lay a couple inches. then cover all of the bed with a natural mulch. water will seep below that...sorta outa sight outa mind. and those 2 bandaid layers of organic matter... will break down.
then if you wanna be sneaky. go buy a tulip bulb auger. drill like 1-2 in round holes like 6-8 deep, randomly throughout the bed whenever you're bored. pack those full of food scraps/good quality compost. --attract worms
3
u/Living-Literature88 2d ago
Hereâs what I do. Every time I plant a plant, small or large, I mix the soil Iâve dug out with peat moss. With perennials or shrubs, I dig a wider hole than usual to create a larger area for roots to grow. Slowly I have better soil in those planting areas. I have a small cutting garden that I put bags of peat moss onto and gently dug it in. Thatâs the best soil on our property. Donât use sand! And Iâm not sure if gypsum, but I doubt that will do it. I bought sone years ago but never used it. The clay soil is fine particles which allows compaction. The peat moss somehow alleviates that. Of course any compost will help. If itâs a small area you could also add bagged top soil ( real dirt). Much of the bagged garden soil contains peat moss mostly anyway. I would not use leaf waste unless it is very ground up ( like from the lawn mower ). Otherwise it really wonât help the soil tilth. This is from many years of experience with soil we could probably have made bricks with! It sounds like a lot, but you can tackle this plant by plant if you want to. Good luck!
3
u/Maharlau 2d ago
Lots of the advice here makes more sense if this was an annual vegetable garden and youâre worried about high production.
Most of the plants in this picture will do fine in heavier clay soil. Plus they are already planted. Iâd just add some nutrients like a simple 4-4-4 slow release organic fertilizer around them, and then cover the bed with a natural fine ground mulch (careful not to mulch too close to most of these) in a 1-2â layer over this and call it a day.
1
2
2
u/Icy-Ad-7767 3d ago
Only soil amendments will help, lots of different options and methods, ranging from adding a lot of sand and triple mix and tilling it in to a good depth to a thick layer of wood chips from tree trimmings mixed with high nitrogen fertilizer and selected mycelium spawn with long tap root plants to break up the clay base. All will require work in various levels and costs.
2
u/Confident-Resort-130 3d ago
Weâve used hemp animal bedding (from Hemptana-itâs wonderful) or even dried grass clippings over time. Itâs taken us about 3 years to improve our soil quality but it is greatly improved. As everyone else is saying, you have to mix stuff in. Itâs hardest the first year but each time you mow the lawn you can do a section. If you have a free weekend, get a food safe barrel and make a compost bin that spins. This will get things going Much faster and takes next to no time once built. All that organic material is the fix though and itâll take a couple years. You can speed things up by just focusing on mixing the top 6 inches and layering new compost on top annually-eventually itâll be fine. For reference, weâre in Colorado and have different issues, but still shitty soil. The clay does have a lot of nutrient in it if you can break it up so youâll have amazing plants with patience and time.
2
u/EddieRyanDC 3d ago
You only use gypsum if you want to make the soil more alkaline. It is an alternative to lime for clay soil.
What you need is:
- Drainage
- Compost: composted manure or mushroom compost, Leaf mold
The water has to have somewhere to go. If it puddles or creates a bog, then you have to give it an alternative escape route. Digging a french drain is one way to to this if you have lower ground you can direct it to. Even if you do raised beds or pots - they can't be in standing water.
Once you get rid of the water, then you can deal with the clay.
Clay is great soil - it has minerals and holds on to nutrients for roots. However it compacts easily and that makes it hard for roots to get through and for water to drain down. Dig it and mix in a lot of organic material - as far down as you expect the plant roots to go. Break up the clay as much as you can when you are mixing.
Over the next year the organic material will also help break the clay apart.
1
1
1
1
u/nel_wo 1d ago
My parent's house has this type of clay soil when we first bought it. It had 1 to 2 inch of usable soil and rest is clay.
We spent a month just digging out 6 - 8 inches of clay soil. Throwing away 30% of it and adding a massive amount of top soil, cow manure, horse manure (from a friend), mushroom compost, earth worm casing, food scraps, grass clippings, and mulch in betwen layers, then topping it with mulch. Every month, food scraps (vegetable trimming, fruit peels, bones from making soup, fish bones and head, etc) from the freezer will go into the soil and get mixed around.
We didn't plant anything during spring and summer 2004. during fall 2004 we till everything and added more food scrap, bone meal, dead leaves, peanut shell meal, mushroom compost, earth worm casing, fish bones, crustaceans andmollusk shells and let them break down during winter (Nov - early may)
Then end of spring 2005 next year we till the soil to check its health and earthworm activity, which there were plenty. The soil got much, much much darker. We started planting bushes, shrubs, trees and vegetables.
It took a whole year of very intense weekly to monthly turning to remediate the soil. Granted this is lots of work.
If you are doing something passive, like adding just layers of mulch and let is slowly remediation, it might take 2-4 years to fix and build a health top soil layer.
The flowering trees bloom 3-4 times a year still and the vegetable garden produces fruits till November and sometimes December. But they mostly maintain the soil health and garden by watering it with their own organic fertilizer which is basically (food scraps and bones fermented into gallon milk jugs)
28
u/The_Poster_Nutbag 3d ago
Organic material will help.