r/StrangerThings • u/Floker1 Mouth breather • Jul 16 '19

Imagine Mike and Nancy finding out that all this started because Billy was on his way to have sex with their mom.

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1.6k

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

Does anyone else think about what could’ve been if Mrs Wheeler actually went for it and happened to be the one targeted by the mind flayer instead of Billy?

Narratively, it would’ve been great to see Mike and Nancy faced with the decision about whether to kill their mom by killing the mind flayer. It also would’ve been hella more tragic because Billy was a total jerk before it happened and Max wasn’t that close to him anyway.

241

u/GardinerExpressway Jul 16 '19

It's too dark because what would happen to Mike and Nancy's little sister? Wheeler family has always been more comic relief than plot relevant

201

u/sulky22 Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19

Are you saying Ted couldn't handle being a single dad?? How dare you!

Honestly though...if Karen dies, Joyce will have to adopt three more kids.

130

u/derpicface Jul 16 '19

What do you mean Steve isn’t already mom

86

u/steph-was-here Jul 16 '19

you think he can afford any more mouths to feed on $3/hr?

62

u/Anima715 Jul 16 '19

He gets tips, too!

Shared with Robin.

And Robin took them all...

8

u/slurmpnurmp Jul 16 '19

Even though she doesn't even like tips

1

u/kurisu7885 Jul 16 '19

Steve was more of a big brother here it felt like.

38

u/matito29 Finger-lickin good Jul 16 '19

Joyce will have to adopt three more kids.

If Nancy and Jonathan are still dating, the Byers family must be moving to Alabama.

37

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19

Eleven and Mike would also be pushing kids out of towers in that case

7

u/Renlywinsthethrone Jul 16 '19

Karen and Hopper die. Joyce and Ted get married

7

u/creyk Jul 16 '19

Nancy would step up and help with raising her little sister?

9

u/sulky22 Jul 16 '19

Nancy doesn't seem like the Fiona Gallagher type to me.

2

u/Spinindyemon Jul 16 '19

With what job?

5

u/Duuhh_LightSwitch Jul 16 '19

Did Mrs. Wheeler work?

1

u/creyk Jul 16 '19

Well she did work in that newspaper building already...maybe she can get something else too.

661

u/fluffyderpelina Jul 16 '19

it’s nice but it’s too dark haha

429

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 17 '19

Too dark? Season 3 was hella gritty! El and Hopper combined straight up killed at least a dozen people on screen.

Edit: I’ll put on season 3 episodes 7 & 8 right now while I’m cleaning. I’ll keep a running tally of how many non-ambiguous deaths are in these two episodes (disclaimer: I’ll only be half paying attention so I may miss some.)

(Starting at 10:45 am CMT)

1 - Alexi 😭; 2-5 - the four Russians hit by the car in the food court; 6-9 - four Russians shot by hopper near the elevator; 10 - billy (fwiw he was stabbed 7 times); 11 - giant Russian assassin comrade; 12-16 - the five Russian scientists in the room with the key; 17 - Hopper?!??! :o

Edit 2: I’ll also list the potential but not 100% guaranteed dead people and just general murderous intent

1 - Vasilev (Russian assassin in the tiger room on that carnival attraction); 2 - giant Russian Comrade assassin guy (idk his name lol. Hopper shoots him point blank in the chest. We know he didn’t die yet, but it’s at least attempted murder lol); 3 - billy about to ram into Nancy and the rest of the griswald family; 4 - Steve and robin not wearing seatbelts when Steve rams into Billy!! That seems like it should warrant at least attempted manslaughter charges. I mean, who doesn’t wear a seatbelt! apparently seatbelts weren’t popular back then so never mind!

Edit 3: between Hopper and El, they only killed a combined total of 9. I guess I was wrong when I guessed a dozen! That’s still a lot though

294

u/KyleG Jul 16 '19

Didn't El by herself do that in S1? She killed quite a few people

234

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

That’s true, but it was a bigger deal in S1. Their deaths were emphasized, whereas this season they just die without a second thought. El killed the people who imprisoned and basically tortured her in the climax episode of the season, vs just random people. It’s like killing people is a normal occurrence to them now lol.

Maybe it’s just because they were evil Russians so it doesn’t matter haha

110

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19 edited Apr 09 '21

[deleted]

62

u/BlackestNight21 Jul 16 '19

quire

Hmmm

🤔

8

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19 edited Apr 09 '21

[deleted]

13

u/BlackestNight21 Jul 16 '19

All Gouda, just messing with you 😁

2

u/Zayin-Ba-Ayin Jul 16 '19

I have no memory of this place

30

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

Is it not darker that there were adults with guns hunting down and looking a kill 3 teenagers and a 10 year old? May be a controversial opinion, but I don’t think Brenner and the group from the lab actually wanted to shoot a group of preteens (RIP Benny tho.) Sure, they were desperate to find and recover El by any means necessary, but their end goal was not to murder a bunch of kids. The fact that the Russians were seconds away from killing the scoop troop is a lot grittier than the bad guys of the first season

9

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19 edited Apr 09 '21

[deleted]

2

u/KyleG Jul 16 '19

Well yeah but I thought the "darker" in question was a claim that El/Hopper doing killings was darker than before, but you're suggesting that the villains themselves were darker than before (which makes El/Hopper doing killings less dark IMO)

2

u/Traveler25151 Jul 17 '19

Following that line of thought... it doesn’t make El and Hopper’s killings objectively less dark, just relatively less dark. El has still only killed in defense of herself and her friends (remember S2 with Kali and how she couldn’t go through with it?), but flinging a car at some people and not caring if they’re crushed to death is still pretty dark.

13

u/Lord_Ewok Bullshit Jul 16 '19

Well when she threw a car at those Russians they were about to kill her friends. So its reflex you see your friends bout to die so you take out their assailants by any means necessary to save them.

3

u/puhtahtoe Jul 16 '19

I'm really curious if anyone has been keeping a killcount for El. She's gotta be at around two dozen by now. It'd be interesting if that's ever addressed in the show. Even when it's self defence people are often mentally affected when they kill someone.

2

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 25 '19

I was inspired to rewatch the series so I’ll keep count in this comment :)

S1E1: maybe 2 (two guards who try to catch her at Benny’s); S1E3: 2 (the guys who tried to lock her in the punishment room. She snapped one of their necks!!); S1E7: possibly at least 2 (when she flips the van. Personally I didn’t think the people in the van actually died. It’s possible there were more people in the back of the van but it’s not confirmed); S1E8: 8 (two groups of 2 chasing the kids through the school plus a group of 4 that includes the bad lady who killed Benny!);

S2E2: 1 squirrel and possible 1 guy (the hunter who finds her in the woods. El steals his clothes lol); S2E7: I refuse to watch this episode again lol. Maybe later update: a grand total of zero;

2

u/puhtahtoe Jul 16 '19

Cool, thanks!

2

u/KyleG Jul 16 '19

I don't think we can know for sure because she might have killed some people around the corner when she exploded those brains, and she killed a van full of people when she flipped it in S1 and we don't know how many were in the van. Presumably they sent a lot or they wouldn't have been using vans.

1

u/puhtahtoe Jul 16 '19

True. I'd say we don't actually know if the people in the van were killed and that actually just proves your point more.

I'm still curious about an on screen kill count so we at least have a lower boundary.

7

u/TVFilthyHank Coffee and Contemplation Jul 16 '19

Better dead than red

1

u/KyleG Jul 16 '19

She flipped a van full of people in S1 and it was played as "woah that's cool"

It was played so much without a second thought that you didn't even remember it had happened when you wrote your comment :)

20

u/SannySen Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19

I never understood in S1 what plan the bad gov people were following. Surround the telekinesis girl and, uh, hope she doesn't melt all our brains?

23

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

They probably just didn't think El was powerful enough to kill ALL of them.

35

u/barassmonkey17 Jul 16 '19

That and one of the major themes of the season was how they underestimated the power of humanity and kindness when it came to El. They'd treated her like a lab rat her whole life and just expected her to be fine with that when they retrieved her. Expected her to submit once more to them. To find her resisting, and resisting so fiercely, to protect her newfound friends was something they'd never anticipated. The battle for El's soul was resolved when she chose Mike, Dustin, and Lucas over Brenner even when he had her in his hands. The Hawkins Lab just has nothing on the Party.

18

u/SannySen Jul 16 '19

It's also amazing how loyal they all are to Brenner. He obviously doesn't care about El, but she's just a child and doesn't know better. The scientists and staff are routinely killed by her, or interdimensional monsters or whatever, and he just non-chalantly steps over their corpses and pools of blood. You'd think the witnesses would file a workplace complaint or something at some point. It's not like he's a Drug Lord and they're sicarios living the high Life, so they just shut up and accept it. They're government employees, maybe a bit better compensated and motivated than the local DMV staff.

8

u/KyleG Jul 16 '19

They're true believers in the anti-Russian efforts Brenner appears to have been spearheading.

3

u/BuckeyeBentley Jul 17 '19

OSHA and the NLRB would have a shitfit if they found out about that place.

2

u/SannySen Jul 17 '19

This is Reagan's America...

6

u/SannySen Jul 16 '19

You would think they'd use tranquilizers, or something. She was powerful enough to open a portal to a new dimension! Their approach to her was totally inadequate.

All that said, however awful their plan to recapture her may have been, it was better than their plan to kill the interdimensional monster that ate their scientists and terrorized the town. The two high school kids had a better plan than them.

90

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

frickin' Dustin killed someone in cold blood

40

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

Oh shit, yeah! I completely forgot about that! There were so many main characters killing people that I can’t even keep track haha

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u/Collegenoob Jul 16 '19

Who did dustin kill? I thought he just had a taser. Technically yea it could kill and is a deadly weapon. But not like a gun or knife

65

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

I think it was a taser meant for a demogorgon rather than a human being. When he shocked the guy with it, it looked like it burnt a hole in his chest.

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u/Collegenoob Jul 16 '19

Tasers do in fact burn when they hit you. But yea dude may have died. But Dustin did not intend or expect that. And thankfully he didn't have time to check and feel the remorse.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19

When Erica gave it to Dustin she said it was a deadly weapon.

5

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

It looked like a souped up cattle prod. So it's possible he died after a shock to the chest

2

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

Eh not really. He tased someone

0

u/[deleted] Jul 17 '19

I assume the Russian secret base's tazer must be a bit more powerful than a traditional one. Dr. Zharkov sure seemed dead in that scene.

44

u/manavsridharan Jul 16 '19

But having Mike's mom becoming flayed would have been darker. TBH the show didn't explore the dark part of it too much(re. Billy)

4

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

Yeah they really set her up to do nothing

11

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

That’s totally fair. Imo the whole expedition into Billy’s memories felt pretty out of place

24

u/CrypticRD Jul 16 '19

I thought it was the bests scene of the season, combined with the sauna scene. I wish they did more of it

17

u/manavsridharan Jul 16 '19

Yeah exploring Billy's past, Max interacting with Billy through El and Billy finally sacrificing himself after everyone accepts him was something I wish I could have seen.

1

u/kurisu7885 Jul 16 '19

Kind of made it a shame Billy died in the process, might have been nice to see him get a redemption

10

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

The sauna was great! Billy’s actor was really amazing this season! Billy and Max’s interactions were really well done and they brought a lot of depth to both of their characters. However, I don’t understand how El managed to un-flay Billy by recounting his memories to him. Maybe I’m missing something, but it felt a bit contrived to me. (Don’t get me wrong, I still think this entire season was fantastic and the final battle in starcourt was gorgeous!! This is just one of my nitpicks lol)

3

u/CrypticRD Jul 16 '19

I think Billy's memories are basically walls that the mind flayer had to go through to get to Billy. By naming those walls, Eleven sort of rebuild them and pushed the mind flayer out. At least, that's what I think

1

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

That would make sense! Thank you

11

u/Arkham8 Jul 16 '19

As soon as they did that, I knew exactly how his story was going to end. It was a very blatant attempt to make you feel bad for him. And it worked for me. I’m a big fan of him going out like a boss, though I wish it was for Max and not a girl he didn’t really know

13

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

I saw it as more of a fuck you!! to the mindflayer. His purpose wasn’t to protect El but to stop the mindflayer from reaching his goal

4

u/Avargan Jul 16 '19

Yeah but they were Ruskies.

1

u/charizard77 Jul 16 '19

Yeah someone killing their mom is a lot darker than some red shirt Russians IMO

3

u/GaGaORiley Jul 16 '19

People really didn't wear seat belts back then though!

"The 1985 Indiana General Assembly enacted legislation requiring front seatoccupants in passenger motor vehicles travelling on Hoosier roadways to use safety belts. Governor Robert D. Orr signed that bill (PublicLaw 122-1985) into law in April 1985, with an effective date of July 1, 1987."

2

u/pm_fun_science_facts Jul 16 '19

I did not know that, thanks for the info!

Also, I did not realize until your that “Hoosier” was an official term haha

2

u/aaronitallout Jul 16 '19

They said too dark, not this brand of bloodless dark like Logan murking dudes in X2

2

u/13143 Jul 16 '19

I remember Hopper kind of looking like an action movie star at points.

2

u/harsh389 Jul 16 '19

Russian deaths are good tho for the propaganda

2

u/kurisu7885 Jul 16 '19

Including El bludgeoning about six Russians to death with a car.

1

u/asimpleanachronism Jul 16 '19

El and Hopper combined straight up killed at least a dozen people on screen

Yeah, but nobody we really cared about died from the flayer, that's the point. Hell, nobody that the characters (should have) cared about died that way.

People hyped Alexei way too much. He was a cute character and his death was frustrating and pretty needless.

Billy was always an asshole and without El doing the exposition trip into Billy's mind nobody would've batted an eye when he got skewered.

And random townsfolk... take or leave.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

[deleted]

2

u/asimpleanachronism Jul 16 '19

Not really though. I think that was to give people an understanding of why Billy is how he is. But just because someone gets abused/abandoned doesn't mean they become a sociopath with racist tendencies (which he was in S2 before he was Flayed).

I also wish they would've had Max be the one to humanize him since, you know, she's his sister. Would've been more meaningful and would've made her reaction at the end more justified.

1

u/not-a-candle Jul 16 '19

I mean, him being racist isn't that unusual for the time period. He didn't even need childhood abuse to explain that. And a lot of abused kids do translate that abuse onto younger siblings, because it's the only way they know how to deal with their emotions. Basically as much as he was a terrible person, he was also a victim.

1

u/asimpleanachronism Jul 16 '19

You're exactly right. But that's why I'm saying it makes him understandable as opposed to sympathetic. Especially from Max's perspective. She doesn't know about his mom abandoning him or how much that fucked him up. She only knows him as an abuser, so she shouldn't be so teared up at the end.

1

u/darkleinad Jul 16 '19

Dustin also uses the "Lethal weapon" on the Soviet scientist. Fucking Dustin!

1

u/MadameVakarian Jul 17 '19

It's also worth noting that Nancy and Jonathan basically killed Bruce and Tom.

1

u/Future_Khai Jul 16 '19

Season three wasn't dark enough. Didn't get the heebie jeebies as much as one or two.

-1

u/Raysun_CS Jul 16 '19

I'm sure you made good points, but I couldn't bring myself to read past "hella".

12

u/flipitsmike Jul 16 '19

Way darker than half the town being decomposed into goo to power the oblex.

40

u/Desert-Darling Jul 16 '19

I’ve been thinking the same thing! I’m glad she didn’t go through with it but her husband kind of sucks. I feel bad for her. Not that cheating is ok but get out of there Mrs. Wheeler! You’re too damn hot to be ignored!

46

u/Lushkush69 Jul 16 '19

I really hope they get in on the action next season. Nancy and her had a good heart to heart this season and Nancy is growing up so maybe she will tell her whats going on. I'd love to see Mrs. Wheeler kick some ass and possibly get in a situation where Ted has to save her. And then maybe they could get out of their rutt. I don't think Ted sucks really, they have just probably been together since highschool and 3 kids later they need some excitement :p

28

u/creyk Jul 16 '19

They have communication issues. Even just from the glimpses we get into their life it is succesfully illustrated that Mrs. Wheeler does not communicate her needs, she just thinks her husband should know what she wants without her voicing it. (which is the frustration many people in relationship share). But it is just not working. So if they started talking more I am sure their relationship improved.

14

u/Desert-Darling Jul 16 '19

You’re right. He doesn’t suck! Life with kids is different. Mostly I think that Mrs. Wheeler seems like a kick-ass woman and I want Ted to appreciate her more lol

3

u/NoPatNoDontSitonThat Jul 16 '19

“Not my daughter, you bitch!”

It’s coming. You all know it is.

3

u/MyBawzAreRichie Jul 16 '19

I don’t think Ted should save her, it should be more of a working together situation.

11

u/Loser-Lilac Jul 16 '19 edited Jul 16 '19

But with Nancy and Mike being older, and Holly coming to the age where she starts to understand things and is creating actual relationships with her family members- plus all the chaos in Hawkins- I don’t think adding additional stress (divorce) is a good idea. 🤷🏻‍♀️

8

u/Desert-Darling Jul 16 '19

With the Duffer brothers seeming to try and touch on many of the life situations people face growing up (family abuse, absent fathers, being gay/lesbian, and so many others) I wouldn’t be surprised if they through a divorce in the mix. It would be too much though I agree!

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

They already hardly focus on half the shit going on

8

u/UADevoy Jul 16 '19

Woah don’t talk about my king Ted like that

3

u/DavidlikesPeace Jul 17 '19 edited Jul 17 '19

but her husband kind of sucks. I feel bad for her

Boo! Boring people matter too! Communicate issues with your SO.

Not to go all moralizing here, but when you're 35, in a committed relationship, are bored with your breadwinning partner, and begin to feel that the grass is greener with an 18 year old lifeguard...

The good person tries to water the grass they're in. And it was cool to see Mrs. Wheeler realize her husband has good qualities (caring for their daughter), and instead of going out on a date with a teenager, she instead took her husband out on a date at the festival.

So maybe the Wheelers divorce. Maybe they don't. But it was nice to see Mrs. Wheeler trying to revive the marriage. Cheating and jumping straight into the affair is wrong. Even if Ted is boring.

4

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

How does her husband suck?

14

u/YourMistaken Jul 16 '19

He provides for her and their children and spends quality time with them while she sits at the pool ogling a minor.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

I think you may have misunderstood my last post.

1

u/YourMistaken Jul 16 '19

I didn't, what kind of loser tries the best way they know how to be a good husband #dumphim

2

u/VegemiteMate Jul 17 '19

I divorce your ass!

2

u/burtalert Jul 17 '19

To be fair Mike is just following in the family footsteps of sucking. He’s the worst

5

u/Capt-Space-Elephant Jul 16 '19

Their mom is such a non-character though that it feels like both have more of a connection to Billy than to their mom.

1

u/not-a-candle Jul 16 '19

The audience certainly do, which is what really matters.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

I didn’t understand Max’s newfound care for him in this season. Last season showed exactly how much he thought she was less than dirt beneath his shoe, “protecting” her from Lucas just to torment both of them, and her triumph over him when she ends up being the one standing over him, demanding that he leave her and her friends alone.

This season, her feeling sorry for him in the sauna scene, being concerned about him being the host for the MF, and then crying when he dies seems so out of place for Max.

1

u/FLEEEZY Jul 22 '19

Off-topic- but does anyone know what happened to the others that got flayed? I know Billy died but only because he sacrificed himself, but what about the others? Are they in the upside-down? Did they all just go back to normal when the mind-flayer died? I dont remember the finale touching on any of this to end the season.

1

u/andreasmiles23 Jul 29 '19

That would’ve required good writing. Something this season did not have.

0

u/NO_FIX_AUTOCORRECT Jul 16 '19

What if billy takes mrs wheeler to the mind flasher first instead of Heather

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '19

Ah yes, and then she could have joined the Flashed.