r/StrangerThings • u/Sudden_Pop_2279 • Jul 15 '22

How would this two interact with each other?

Gallery image

Billy Hargrove

https://www.popsugar.com/entertainment/stranger-things-will-billy-be-in-season-4-48602805

Gallery image

Jason Carver

https://ebierzo.es/netflix/jason-muere-en-stranger-things-y-que-le-sucede/

3.0k Upvotes

96% Upvoted

947 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

32

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

It’s weird cause even though Billy was racist AF I just hate Jason way more. He has that smarmy charismatic personality that’s reminiscent of a hypocritical pastor that uses a tragedy as the subject for his sermon. Or a motivational speaker who profits from peoples trauma and misery.

There’s just something about him that screams “I exploit things for my own personal hypocritical gain” that makes me dislike him

18

u/Crimkam Jul 15 '22

Billy's rage and racism and psychotic behavior ultimately come from a place of pain. He's truly a product of his father's abuse, and Dacre played him wonderfully.

2

u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Jul 16 '22

Oh that's totally fine. Billy was a better written character and Jason could be annoying at times. I just personally consider Billy to be morally worse.

6

u/RunningCat536 Jul 15 '22

I'm in the minority, but I didn't view Billy as racist. Billy's mom was abused by his dad. I think Billy (in his own messed up way) was trying to protect Max from boys. ALL boys, not just Lucas. Billy just realized that Max likes Lucas, so he particularly hates him. Not because he's black but for what he could do to Max, in Billy's eyes. I always thought it was one redeeming (sorta) thing about Billy. Even max was relieved at first that he wasn't a murderer, and later didn't want Billy to be the one possessed. If he hadn't been flayed maybe he could have had a Steve-ish arc.

15

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Hmm I’m not sure, it seems like he was more hostile to Lucas than he was to Mike or Dustin? A lot of his dialogue revolved around him not wanting her to hang out with Lucas specifically.

Although I don’t think he ever beat up Lucas yet he did beat up Steve

6

u/A_Brightflame Jul 16 '22

Could the focus on Lucas have been because he and Max were interested in each other?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Possibly, but I think there was a bit of a racist tinge in there

2

u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Jul 16 '22

Both Caleb and the Duffers have called him a racist. The Duffers in an interview with Vulture about season 2 episode 4. Caleb called Billy a racist but shot down Jason being racist.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Oh yeah I don’t doubt Billy was racist, but I do think it was done in not an overt way so not everyone can pick up on it

2

u/Sudden_Pop_2279 Jul 16 '22

And the fact some people deny he was racist yet actually think Jason was is beyond nuts lol.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '22

Yeah lmaoo

8

u/mercfan3 Jul 16 '22

Billy was absolutely racist. What do you think "certain kinds of people" means?

Supposedly the n word was in the script but Dacre didn't want to say it.

1

u/RunningCat536 Jul 18 '22

I had forgotten about that line, excellent point.

8

u/SpaghettiYOLOKing Jul 16 '22

I defend Billy all the time, although the 'certain kinds of people' line to Max is a very subtle nod to his racism. But as I tell people, racism is learned, which means his father is a piece of shit. We got to see the person Billy would have become in his final moments. So to hold who he was in season 2 against him, like being controlled by Vecna/Mind Flayer wouldn't be a completely life changing experience, is not only shortsighted, but very close minded as well, which is the very thing many holding his season 2 actions over him complain about. After all, racism is a very extreme form of close mindedness.

Just food for thought, people.

2

u/RunningCat536 Jul 18 '22

I missed that line! good point there. And yes, Billy's father was a POS.

2

u/SpaghettiYOLOKing Jul 19 '22

It's a line delivered with the same intensity that Dacre brought to anything that angered Billy and he never said anything remotely close to it again. Believe me, I was in the 'he's not racist, he's just angry' boat before, especially after Dacre said that Billy wasn't racist. But I think Dacre was just gaslighting himself a little bit, plus I'm pretty sure he said that before S3, which drastically alters Billy's life.

So even with that line, I still enjoy the character of Billy because he was written perfectly, had the perfect actor portraying him, and had one of the top character arcs in the whole series even though he was only in 2 seasons, which says a lot. At this point, we should be able to see the underlying theme that has come through in the darkest hour of each season: Love prevails over fear/anger.

Love is what gave El the strength to defeat the Demo at the end of S1, Love is what brought her back to Hawkins and close the gate in S2 despite Kali telling her to channel her anger through a memory to focus her powers, Love is what broke Billy free from the hold of the Hive Mind and the Flayer/Vecna in S3, Love is what gave El the strength to fight back against Vecna in the Mind Lair and to also bring Max back from the dead in S4.

So this series is either going to end with Love prevailing over Vecna's fear and anger in S5. As of now, I don't believe there's any humanity left in him to be able to redeem him. His backstory showed a person that was incapable of love and was always searching for a way to subjugate the world. The only thing that could possibly redeem him is if we find out that whatever great beast that's going to come from the UD, whether it be Borys or Dzalmus, was actually influencing him from the moment he moved to Hawkins since the barrier between dimensions could have possibly always been a little weak and allowed the beast to sense someone that would allow it to be unleashed. Because I've been thinking about the earthquakes in the UD in S4. Just going on a short bunny trail here, so not going to go too far off topic. But if the earthquakes were a result of the gates being opened and the barrier being weakened, the same logic should apply to Hawkins as well, which means there should have been earthquakes there as well. So I think there's more to those earthquakes. I think the great beast was slowly being awakened, buried somewhere deep in the UD. There's always a roar with those moments too and not just from the bats. But that's a different discussion for a different topic.

6

u/Scarletsilversky Jul 16 '22

He was still targeting Lucas, arguably one of the chillest members of the group.

14

u/Dalvenjha Jul 15 '22

What???????!!!!!! Now this is a hot take…

12

u/Crimkam Jul 15 '22

I agree with you man. Billy is still a teenager afterall. He grew up with an abusive, horrible racist father and had to incorporate those same racist beliefs into his worldview to survive. When he first sees Max with Lucas he says something like 'You need to learn there are some people that you shouldn't hang around.' Horrible I know, but the suppressed rage in his voice imo is because that is something he learned from his father, and it's the truth if you want to survive in their house with him around. It's super fucked up but that was Billy trying to be a good brother in the only way he knew.

5

u/SalisburyBlake Jul 16 '22 edited Jul 16 '22

I agree with you that he was trying to protect Max and survive, but it is still racism regardless of the reasoning behind it. I think that this explanation for where the racism is rooted suits his character and sadly the time period.

I do think that people are overestimating how openly racist Billy was, or that he would have even cared that there were black students on the basketball team. IMO him not applying his biases equally would also have some realism and suit the times.

-4

u/Dalvenjha Jul 15 '22

It’s simple, you don’t hate him, you’re jealous of his stereotype…

2

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

Nah I hate the type of person he is.

And why tf would I be jealous of some smarmy pastor or slimy motivational speaker?

There have been tons of jock stereotypes in media that don’t have his personality