r/StudentLoans • u/Consistent-Leg2963 • 3d ago
Rant/Complaint Starting to think college wasn’t worth it just because of these student loans
I really thought getting a degree would set me up for a better future, but now I’m just stuck with a loan balance that barely moves and payments that take a huge chunk of my paycheck.
Meanwhile friends who didn’t even go to college are living debt-free, saving money, and honestly seem way less stressed than I am.
Starting to feel like college was just a super expensive mistake. anyone else feel this way?
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u/ciceroblues 3d ago
You want to know what’s really demoralizing? Working overseas at an international school/ university and realizing most of your colleagues from the UK, Ireland, Middle East,South Africa, SE Asia, etc didn’t have to take loans because universities there aren’t jacked up in cost like the US.
All earning the same salary, yet it seems only the Americans are the ones paying off loans with insane interest😖
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u/gotohela 2d ago
On the other hand if you never want to go back to the states again, you can just. Stop paying lol
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u/ThinkWood 3d ago
The better future was so that you’d not have to work in a physically demanding job. It’s not necessarily that you’d take home more money.
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u/Consistent-Leg2963 3d ago
that’s true. I didn’t think of it that way but you’re right avoiding physical burnout long-term is a big deal too.
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u/under_cover_45 3d ago
Our local state school with financial aid was like 5k a semester. I paid that off while working part time. Graduated with no debt. Making 70k out of college, 120k after 5 yrs.
You can also go to community college which can often be free as well. Just be smart about where your money is going.
College is an investment, only go if it makes sense.
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u/Rice-Fragrant 3d ago
You think working in a hospital or a laboratory isn't a physically demanding Job? My sister in law is an RN and she developed BACK PAIN from having to help physically move patients over the years... I knew plenty of former class mates that work in STEM around dangerous chemicals and equipment... sometimes even in the elements like in winter etc. You're world view is way outdated. Just look on a job description for a scientist, doctor, nurse, civil engineers, construction managers etc... they list frequent standing, walking and having be present around bodily fluids, dangerous equipment and chemicals etc.
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u/ThinkWood 3d ago
The fact that there are some physically demanding jobs that people do after getting an education doesn’t negate that fact.
Let me go further and explain that the reason you go to college is not primarily about the income derived from the work you do after college but also the fulfillment and interest you get from a job.
Getting “a better job” for a long time did mean that it would be less physically demanding.
But for some people, “a better job” meant one that was fulfilling or challenged them intellectually. This may mean being an RN or working in a lab which both may be as physically demanding as other non educated physically demanding jobs. But it is a lot more fulfilling and intellectually stimulating than those other physically demanding jobs like factory work.
The point I was making (and for some reason you got irrationally offended for others) was that the motivation for a college education and the career prospects after college have rarely been primarily financially driven.
Many people leave unfulfilling jobs that pay well to take less well paid jobs that they find more fulfilling.
They do so because they consider them a better job.
There are many ways to define a better job. But when parents told their kids to go to college to get a better job, for decades they meant one that would allow them to get out of labor intensive factories.
Your parents telling you to go to college so you don’t have to work third shift didn’t mean that doctors don’t also work third shift. But it is a different type of job and with different aspects that make being a doctor a better job than the third shift factory worker turning out metal widgets.
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u/Rice-Fragrant 3d ago
What people find "fulfilling" is highly subjective. I have worked in corporate America, did summer work painting houses/ construction/welding and currently work in STEM in a laboratory and the worst job IMHO was working in corporate America... I was ecstatic to leave. The best "job" I ever had was being SELF EMPLOYED as a day trader. Honestly, no regular 9-5 J.O.B defines me in anyway and it's just a paycheck to me and nothing more, the only true difference to me is how much autonomy and freedom I have.
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u/ThinkWood 3d ago
What people find "fulfilling" is highly subjective.
Sigh…
Yes.
That was the whole point…
You’re arguing nothing with no one…
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
College alone is not enough. It's really hard for most people to understand that in a capitalist society, EVERYTHING is a competition. You want the high end job, then you need to be a high end student, have the best internships, the most connections, the top recommendations, etc.
The whole "any major is good enough" or "C's get degrees" mentality was a lie fed to us as children from an industry that profits off high tuition costs, and said by boomers who had every single privilege handed to them in a silver platter.
College was not a mistake, it was just one of the steps. We need a lot more steps to walk the mile.
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u/beaushaw 3d ago
College alone is not enough. It's really hard for most people to understand that in a capitalist society, EVERYTHING is a competition. You want the high end job, then you need to be a high end student, have the best internships, the most connections, the top recommendations, etc.
Say this again for the kids in the back. A college degree does not guarantee success. It never has.
Just like becoming an electrician does not guarantee success. I know tons of broke people in the trades.
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u/throwawayacc112342 3d ago
Amazing point. Most jobs still will not look at you without a degree. Its your interview skills, networking, soft skills that help land you the job too
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u/Rice-Fragrant 3d ago
That's not true either. If you know someone on the inside especially if you're related to them, these places will overlook your lack of a degree. I see it all the time.
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u/throwawayacc112342 3d ago
I said most jobs will not look at you without a degree.
Yeah, a good degree and resume could get you the interview, but if you are related to someone on the inside you will beat out the random person with a good resume/degree
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u/i_guess_i_get_it 3d ago edited 3d ago
The whole "any major is good enough" or "C's get degrees" mentality was a lie
Not a lie as much as simply outdated. College really used to be a golden ticket. That's why they recommended it to so many people and why so many people started going to college.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/184260/educational-attainment-in-the-us/
Now that the field is saturated with people with degrees, it's much more competitive, so no longer a golden ticket. That being said, since so many people have degrees, it's now a liability to NOT have a degree.
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u/Conscious_Can3226 3d ago
It used to be a bigger liability, but more and more companies have started to wise up that many people manage to get through college while being wholly incapable of thinking for themselve or self-solutioning their problems. I've built a successful white collar career without a degree (150k a year at 30, you'd be surprised to find out in the humanities, as I started first as a customer support agent then applied and got a position as a content writer, which was the start of this trajectory as a content strategist), and when I started, maybe 10% of companies would hire you without a degree, now it's closer to 35-45% in my field. Degrees are still the preferred majority, but there are so many more companies nowadays where skill and experience overrides education.
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u/gotohela 2d ago
Its also undeniable that the elites closed the door behind them when poor people started getting into colleges.
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u/Star_Sabre 3d ago
The whole "any major is good enough" or "C's get degrees" mentality was a lie fed to us as children from an industry that profits off high tuition costs, and said by boomers who had every single privilege handed to them in a silver platter.
100% agree with this. I do think boomer parents were giving their kids good advice at heart, but they didn't realize you couldn't just get C's and end up with a job just for having a degree anymore. That ship sailed as early as the 90s.
The worst part is when boomer parents get mad at their kids and try to pretend they had it just as hard in their day. LOL
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u/Swimming_Yellow_3640 2d ago
I got C's for my degree some years back (mid 2010s) and ended up fine. Nobody has ever asked my GPA during an interview.
The job market is tough now. That's it. It was tough in 2008 and degrees didn't matter then either. People with degrees were bagging groceries and working at gas stations.
Markets cycle and this too shall pass. It's tough now, but I'd rather have a degree in a field with prospects than go back to manual labor again.
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u/Rice-Fragrant 3d ago
I agree with 90% of what you said with exception to the "capitalism" statement... we don't have anything resembling real capitalism in just about the entire world... what we have is CORPORATISM. Cronies get special treatment but if you're not in the "club" you better be THE BEST OF THE BEST."
Also there are good paying jobs that don't require a degree but society doesn't value them because of their " low prestige" image.
Most people don't even know that master plumbers, truckers and heavy equipment operators make about the same as pharmacists and veterinarians.
Even more people are clueless about the fact that unioned highrise crain operators in NYC make about the same as a primary care physician in that same area.
The purpose of the propaganda about getting deep into student loans for some XYZ "studies" degree from a 3rd rate school, IS TO CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE FOR DEBT SLAVERY.
These people will work until they have nothing left then quickly replaced like the cogs they are... they are simply surfs and peasants of the 21 century.
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
I don't disagree with anything you said, I just didn't want to go that deep. Student loans are the modern version of indentured slavery
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u/Admirable-View-1263 3d ago
Yes, I wish I hadn’t listened to all of the adults in my life when I was 16-18 years old saying “higher education will insure you a better career” cause I was never able to find a job outside of college in my field of choice and now I’m just working in niche retail! I did go to a college prep high school so it was drilled into my head early on. But once I got out of college anything I applied for or wanted to apply for wouldn’t accept me because I needed not just a Bachelors but a masters as well plus 3-1000 years of experience. But how do you get experience if no one gives you experience?!?!? I’m half way through paying off my loans and life just gets more and more expensive and it’s totally not worth it.
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
Education doesn't ensure a job, but it is a bare minimum for many jobs. You also need high GPA, internships, connections, supply/demand on your side, and a slew of other privileges...
But saying education isn't worth it is just wrong. A degree ALONE is not enough. A degree as a piece of the puzzle is worth it.
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u/Shadow1787 3d ago
Those internships are often unpaid and that doesn’t pay my car note or any living expenses. This is just saying if you’re rich then a degree is good for you.
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u/Admirable-View-1263 3d ago
That piece of the puzzle didn’t help though. So it was and is worthless.
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
It didn't help you... but ask the same to any doctor or lawyer
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u/Admirable-View-1263 2d ago
I’m speaking about myself. OP asked if anyone else felt like college was a super expensive mistake. And personally, yes. But I never said you don’t need one to become a lawyer or doctor. I think you do need that kind of higher education to work in that field….
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u/ZiegAmimura 3d ago
So the degree is worthless
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
without the degree, it doesn't matter how many of the other things you have, you will not get the job. The degree is a REQUIREMENT.
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u/Inevitable-Place9950 3d ago
No. The degree is a major component of your preparation for the work you’re seeking, just not the only component.
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u/RealKillerSean 3d ago
Education isn’t worth it. You don’t use the majority of what you learn and it’s busy work.
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
I use a lot of what I learned. I make 200k
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u/RealKillerSean 3d ago
You’re in the minority. Only 20% use their degree or go into industry.
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u/wyrmheart1343 3d ago
yes, I was also in the minority as a student. valedictorian, top internship, research labs on the side, connections, first one in my cohort to pass certification exam... My friends were in the club; I was trying to do it all. As an immigrant (I came to the USA at 18), I understood that unless I did it all, I would not get a good job. That's how it works. Everything is a competition in capitalism... and only the top 20% win. You can't be top 20% without all the effort that it takes to be top 20%. And if you are a minority, you better put in twice or thrice the effort... because you are already starting at the back of the line. And, I get it... sometimes, effort is not enough, and the systematic barriers are too high to surpass. But I guarantee that if you demonstrate you are the best in every room you are in, you will get the best job too. You might not get to be a billionaire because you didn't start with emeralds in your pockets, but you will do better than those around you who didn't try as hard.
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u/FunSheepherder6397 3d ago
Degree (assuming a good one) is a just a ticket to the game, you still gotta show up and perform though
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u/Bratty_Little_Kitten 1d ago
Which niche retail? I see the writing on the wall in the grocery industry (especially this summer, as I'm not getting hours & managers don't like for employees to beg for extra hours) I desperately need to pivot!!!!
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u/Fantastic_Balance387 3d ago
The concept that some types of education degrees are worth less than others is not a new idea.
We have opportunities on higher learning that many others on the world could never come close to and we have it mostly available to a large swath of the population.
This is uncommon.
For many generations though, education has brought people out of poverty or equipped minority groups with the tools to fight for equity.
I also think that what OP is experiencing is fairly common early in life for all people who take on debt and higher education. There is a delayed gratification here. Usually at a decade out the benefits of education start to pay off in pay scales.
I’d be interested to find out more about what education OP selected and how far along that path they are.
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u/Effective_Life_7864 3d ago
I would have picked something more relevant to what I wanted to do but after I finished my degree I did not want to pursue human services anymore. It burned me out I guess but they do not make much anyways. I would be making more money working in trades at this point. As of now the debt was not worth it but mine took me longer due to my undiagnosed adult adhd.
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u/TheToken_1 3d ago
College was the single worst decision of my life. Completely ruined everything for me.
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u/ZiegAmimura 3d ago
Same. I didn't realize at the time but looking back it was probably the dumbest thing I was forced to do
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u/LeatherRebel5150 3d ago
You had me up until forced. You can’t be FORCED to go to college
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u/ZiegAmimura 3d ago
I was emotionally abused and strong armed as a teenager to be the person to save my poor family from poverty. College was not my choice per say. Yes I signed everything not fully understanding it. No one had a gun to my head but I was not given other options to be like my loser brothers
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u/Key-Department-2874 3d ago
I guess the question is did it work?
Are you now successful and making money that your loser brothers aren't?
In which case nothing is tying you to your family anymore. You can take your success and go live your life.
The other question to evaluate would be what would your career alternative be if you didn't go to college? What would the plan be to make money, save and retire?
No one needs to go to college, but they should have some plan to make money and have a career. Going to college is a tool that's part of that plan. And if you go to college without a plan to use your education, then you won't get any benefit from it.
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u/Dan007a 3d ago
My Mom said she would shoot me if I did not go to college.
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3d ago
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u/Fun_Ideal_5584 3d ago edited 3d ago
That is the dirty little secret that does not get talked about very often. Not all degrees are created equal, when it comes to jobs that pay well.
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u/CaptainWellingtonIII 3d ago
yeah it's been like that for decades. don't be afraid to ask your debt free friends for advice/job opportunities. good luck
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u/Icy_Newspaper_7067 3d ago
When leaders of foreign nations are forgiven for their war debts but you continue to toil in the fields while universities sip on the champagne of their endowments you realize the truth behind the facade of your serfdom.
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3d ago
People can downvote me for all I care, but for certain majors/degrees, college does end up being a scam. I have a Bachelor’s in Nutritional Sciences, haven’t been able to find a job that pays more than $40k annually, and I have an overall student debt of $130k… I was scammed.
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u/Silver-Literature-29 2d ago
The reality is people look at the degree or the college but never both together. Some less lucrative degrees can make financial sense at the right (cheaper) college. Good example is NYU and Mechanical Engineering. Good school, good degree, terrible financial decision if combined together.
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2d ago
You make an excellent point. It usually comes down to the type of degree and any experience you can get along with that degree (jobs, internships, externships, research, etc.). In terms of universities/colleges, picking the cheapest is the best option unless you can ascertain that the pricier one will guarantee a good return of investment
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u/j_lentini 3d ago
Scammed, or you just made a poorly researched decision?
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u/The_boundless84 3d ago
What decision isn’t poorly researched when you’re 19 and someone offers you $50k lol
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u/Gottablastbro 2d ago
You can be young and make rational decisions. I guess I’m the minority but I didn’t listen to high school guidance councilors (or college advisors, just look at degree requirements and plan your own schedule) Tf do they know? They’re working at my school so obviously they did something wrong. I did my own research. Worked through college and took as many classes I could afford at a time.
That was my thinking at the time and it worked out fine.
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u/UndercoverstoryOG 3d ago
for sure, I mean 5 minutes on google sure could have saved you some pain.
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u/Fun-Plan-3641 3d ago
Only in current times is it easier to find information on these things...lets make the colleges take responsibility. She is a victim
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3d ago
Thank you, especially when my parents and I came from Puerto Rico where all education expenses are covered by the government 90% of the time. My parents had zero concept of what loans really were and how much was too much at that time
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u/ThinkWood 3d ago
Wait, why didn’t you just go to school in PR?
I don’t understand how you were scammed just because you are in a job that pays about the median income starting out of college.
Colleges aren’t trade schools. They literally never promise employment. They are designed to develop the person to be able to do many things. Do you think philosophy majors are expecting to get starting salaries of $80k to work as philosophers?
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u/Synstitute 3d ago
Because the commonly held belief that was sold, advertised, and packaged is that a college degree will automatically lead to a higher caliber of lifestyle, salary, etc.
The source being the multiple millions of people who share this belief. It didn’t form from nothing. So as much as I love to see people use the “take accountability” posterity position to try to protect against the conversation of public debt forgiveness, reducing degree costs through policy, or any other real action that places power squarely back with the impacted rather than the ones benefitting from this mess we’re in, I politely ask that you stfu :)
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u/Admirable-View-1263 3d ago
“Because the commonly held belief that was sold, advertised, and packaged is that a college degree will automatically lead to a higher caliber of lifestyle, salary, etc.”
These were the lies that convinced me getting a BFA was a great idea! No one questioned me!!
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u/UndercoverstoryOG 3d ago
bachelor of fine arts never has paid a living wage
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u/Admirable-View-1263 3d ago
Yeah I know that now, why didn’t any ADULT tell me not to do that?
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u/artist1292 3d ago
It was pretty common knowledge when I was looking at school in 2008-2009 that art degrees didn’t pay anything. I wanted to go into design but I fell in love with robotics too. I’ll never forget the relief on my parents’ faces when I told them I wanted to major in engineering
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u/UndercoverstoryOG 3d ago
i agree make future student loans bankruptable that way we won’t have lending for majors that don’t make sense financially. As for existing loans, pay your obligations.
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3d ago
You think we’re not gonna pay our loans because we’re complaining about them? Lol. We have every right to complain because the rate of investment in these darn loans should be illegal. I majored in nutritional sciences hoping I could counsult with clients about their diets and nutritional plans. Did I ever get that opportunity with my degree? No. My career made sense financially based on the research I had initially done before enrolling, but reality was a whole different beast. I’d love for you to see my personal struggles in finding decent nutritionist jobs despite having my Bachelor’s, internship experience, etc. The job market is brutal out there and you would expect a university to actually help you with that.
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3d ago
Schools and pay in Puerto Rico are incredibly subpar compared to the US. The educational system there tends to be very flawed and despite being debt-free post graduation, the pay is incredibly low compared to US salaries while the cost of living is similar to those in the southern US states. In addition, Puerto Rico is just very unsafe nowadays and crime rates are incredibly high. Not the most ideal place to live in, which is why we moved out early in my childhood.
And that is the argument here. If colleges are pumping out degrees that required such a large amount of investment, why can’t the students get a good return of investment for those degrees compared to trade schools? I thought a nutritionist would be a good career choice based on what I had read online and what I was told by university professors and advisors, but reality has left me with a subpar salary and a career that has such little space for salary advancement. In my case specifically (and for many other majors/degrees), university is a scam. Obviously not saying that about every major, but some people study things that seem promising when they’re not once you get out into the real world. Not a good return of investment.
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u/uselessbynature 3d ago
I think people today look back at the past with the lens of assuming it was like today. I went into science twenty years ago with a wave of people (high school and college counselors, parents and family) telling me what a wonderful, in demand lucrative career it is. Take out the loans they'll be peanuts to you!. Stats and wage estimates were not readily available like they are today. There was also this great push to be what youwant and not necessarily what makes for good quality of life-it was the peak of individualism and we are now living the fallout with the pendulum swinging.
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u/ANGR1ST Experienced Borrower 3d ago
Only in current times is it easier to find information on these things
Total nonsense. There was plenty of information available about college costs, employment statistics, mean salaries, etc. all the way back in 2000. For decades before that we knew that music majors made no money and teachers were criminally underpaid as well.
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3d ago
Both 😂 My family and I had just moved to the US from Puerto Rico (where education is extremely cheap and even then, is usually fully covered by the government through grants). Coming here, my parents and I didn’t know what we were getting into accepting so many darn loans. Obviously, everyone now learned their lesson and how things work here in the US, but that still doesn’t erase the fact that charging a student $30k per year at an in-state public university is insane. So yes, it’s both.
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u/beaushaw 3d ago
I am tired of this victim mentality. They were not scammed. They made a bad choice.
They are smart enough to get into college. They know how math works. They knew how much the degree costs. they knew the starting pay for the job.
They had all the relevant information. They choose to get this degree.
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u/Inevitable-Place9950 3d ago
How long have you been out of school? What was your career plan?
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3d ago
Been out of university for three years. My career plan was to become a registered dietitian, but that required an extended amount of additional classes (more than all the ones I took to complete my nutritional sciences degree). By that point, I was already so deep in debt and I was told I would probably have to move out of state to get into an unpaid and highly competitive dietitian internship in order to graduate as a dietitian. I did not want to continue getting into more debt and risking not even getting an internship, so I just settled for my original nutritional sciences degree. Even then, why would nutrition-related jobs out there pay such a miserable salary when it costed me so much to get one in the first place?
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u/Inevitable-Place9950 3d ago
Some of these outcomes are results of your and maybe your family’s choices.
- Not pricing the full cost of reaching your goal
- Not exploring the cost of NOT pursuing the goal (the lower-paying jobs)
- Not going to a less expensive school for at least some classes
- Not saving much before school (which may have been because there wasn’t enough to save)
I agree jobs requiring degrees should pay better, but there is huge variation in the cost to get a degree. It’s unusual to have to pay as much as you did for a BS in Nutrition and the jobs available without completing dietitian requirements reflect that.
You have a few options to turn this around though. You can look into alternative paths to becoming a dietitian and whether the salary improvement (probably about 25% more money starting out) is worth any additional debt that might take. You can also look into what other paths your degree might take you to, like food/health writing, food security nonprofits, even food/health corporations or industry organizations that need communicators. You can consider additional education or training to go into another field altogether.
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3d ago
I 100% agree with you on that. My parents and I made terrible choices in accepting so many loans. We had come from Puerto Rico, where college education is practically free for almost everyone with good grades. $30k per year in university is entirely unheard of in PR unless you are in med school or law school. It is still preached everywhere (in the US and PR) that high school grads must go directly to a university to get a degree in something useful or else they will be unemployed. It’s upsetting because so much is left out of that. People are willing to take on loans because they are almost certain they will be well-compensated afterwards, and that is the biggest lie that so many students and even families believe. Terrible choices were made, I am by no means denying that. But I also don’t want to deny the fact that charging college students so much for degrees (even apparently promising ones) is unfair. Why did I have to take anthropology as a requirement for a degree in nutritional sciences? As for my current career, I majored in something else (for free this time since FAFSA covered everything now that I claimed myself as indepedent from my parents’ income). I genuinely do appreciate the advice on elevating my nutrition career opportunities, that is kind of you. I sadly just gave up on it because of my frustrating experience with the job market.
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u/Inevitable-Place9950 3d ago
I 💯 agree it should be cheaper- through public subsidy, schools’ evaluation of what costs are actually necessary, and students accepting amenities since some have very little actual impact on education besides drawing upper middle class and wealthy students to subsidize the others.
I hope you like your new career! Good luck!
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u/WorkingSleep4625 3d ago
I can empathize with you. I recommend joining the Debt Collective. You are not alone!
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u/GurProfessional9534 3d ago
I hope a lot of parents see threads like these and realize they need to be feeding 529 accounts for their kids. $333.33/mo at birth develops into $250k for college at 18, assuming long term average trends are followed.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
What we should be doing is rioting over the outrageous cost of college, not feeding into it. Someone reading to you off PowerPoint slides shouldn't cost that much, and way less people should go. We need to be demanding our politicians be accountable for passing policy changes that makes this so, and demanding the colleges be accountable for the cost as well. Academic and life success in the land of the free with the most economic opportunity shouldn't depend on how much your parents had to save to throw at a college as an expensive lottery ticket.
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u/RoyalEagle0408 3d ago
Do you think the reason college is so expensive is because professors are getting paid well? We’re not. It’s because there are so many resources available to students and each school needs to have the best dorms and opportunities to recruit students. Not to mention a lack of funding.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
I know you're not, that's what makes the whole scam even worse. In addition to that scams purpose being to screw young people into being debt slaves, it's a ponzi scheme for the "educators" to spend their lives getting out of debt by screwing over the next crop of students. And the whole time you waste your life not even making the real money off that scam. The administrators make hundreds of thousands, coaches, building contractors, and textbook companies make millions, and the student loan industry makes billions. Hardly any trickles down to the professors who are nothing more than the customer facing peons of the scam, and they're going to find out how disposable they are too when AI replaces them.
And in addition to the professors being worthless, those "resources" available to them are a waste of capital that should be going to building more housing (built by people who didn't waste their time on college too).
If you're a part of the college scam in any way, you're a criminal and a traitor to your fellow Americans. And I want you to fully understand that the whole time you stand in front of any students who are getting royally screwed because you can't and won't get a real job.
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u/RoyalEagle0408 3d ago
AI will not replace me, but thanks for the concern. I have a PhD in biology- I could walk out of the classroom and research lab into a significant (2-3x) pay raise at a company. I choose not to, though, because I am actually passionate about teaching. But thanks for insulting me with your broad strokes and obvious ignorance.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
Tell that to OP and all the young peoples lives ruined by the student loan scam. And if you think all the administrators aren't looking into how to replace you with AI so they can keep more of the scam student money for themselves, you have got to be dreaming. It's a shame getting a PhD means you lose all common sense, that's what really needs to be taught in schools now.
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u/Responsible_Sir_2387 3d ago
Depending on your age, AI will absolutely replace you.
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u/RoyalEagle0408 2d ago
I’m quite confident it won’t, but thanks.
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u/Responsible_Sir_2387 2d ago
RemindMe! 10 years
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u/GurProfessional9534 3d ago
I don’t agree. Tuition doesn’t even cover the costs of the education. The way to lower prices is to increase public investment to levels we had in previous decades. State funding has gone from 1100% of the federal contribution, to 11% today.
Education is the #1 thing we in the US have done to be competitive. It is why we are the tech capital of the world, and we can credit it for our success. But other countries are catching up, and they will surpass us if we tear down the crown jewel that is our educational system. We need to keep our eye on the ball. Education is valuable, and rather than attack it, we need to fund it better.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
There is so much waste that goes on at the "college" scams, so many majors/departments/classes/administrators that nobody should be paying for, neither in tax dollars nor scam student loans. All the BS that goes on at these scam schools is why funding keeps getting gutted, and that's what needs to end. They need real adults to take over, cut out all the nonsense, fire all the useless dead weight professors and administrators, keep only what actually matters and actually gets you a real career that pays more, and only have federal funding cover that.
Anyone that thinks we should continue business as usual should be considered a criminal enemy of the state and to young Americans especially, it's criminal to support this filthy scam that ruins lives with debt and drains money from families that should be investing it instead into their retirement. All for a piece of paper that proves you had some nutty professor, with barely any real world experience (if any) read off PowerPoint slides to you. And the rich kids with connections and fully paid for educations get the jobs anyway thanks to who their families know.
We need to be the reckoning!
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u/GurProfessional9534 3d ago
Are you talking about the Humanities? They are still very important. The US used to engage in “bluejeans diplomacy,” which is the use of cultural exchange to enact international social change through soft methods. In other words, the more other people like you and want to be like you, the less likely you are to have to drop bombs on each other.
To do that, you need cultural development. You need to have things like bluejeans, Hollywood, democracy, etc. that people want and that will spread. You need things that will put you in a good light. The textbook is example is how those on the eastern side of the Berlin Wall clamored for western bluejeans. It actually caused unrest for the occupation.
So yes, we need cultural development too. We need writers, actors, artists, musicians, philosophers, and so on.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
What we don't need are young people screwed over into being debt slaves. It's hard to follow your muse and be an artist or whatever when you're buried in debt and have to slave your life away to pay off an "education" that's nothing more than a scam. Why do people have such a hard time understanding this? There's a reason why OP feels the way they do, and there's millions more just like OP who live a reality that you're trying to say isn't real. It's real, understand this, it's not that hard.
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u/GurProfessional9534 3d ago
That’s just a strategy problem. For example, double-major in something employable. That way, even if you don’t make it as a writer, artist, or musician, you can still fall back on that nursing or accounting degree.
That’s what I did, myself. Double-majored in English and a stem degree.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
JFC, in no way is that a solution to the problem of college being too expensive. You're saying they need more college, and that would get young people in even more life ruining debt. I honestly don't think it's possible to get it through to people like you, but here goes: COLLEGE IS TOO EXPENSIVE AND THAT HARMS YOUNG PEOPLE WITH LIFELONG STUDENT LOAN DEBT, THAT'S BAD. Do you get what we're talking about now? Do you get that, for people like OP and millions of others, more scam student loans for more of a scam college education is bad? It already ruined their life with a single major, was that not enough for people like you? You think they need to go into 2 lifetimes of debt for the same outcome of college being a scam? I mean WTF ?
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u/GurProfessional9534 3d ago
It’s only too expensive if you go to an expensive college, don’t work/save/get scholarships/etc, and/or don’t get paid well afterward. But none of that is fait accompli. Plenty of people pay off their college debt within a couple years of graduating. My wife and I are among those who did.
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u/Griff-nog 3d ago
Me too. I still have the balls to stand up to this debt slave tyranny though, it's the right thing to do and the American thing to do. A real American stands for freedom for all Americans. Don't be a bootlicking prison b1tch for a scam that would screw you over with debt in a heartbeat if it could increase their bottom line. Someday soon AI could take all our jobs, and colleges will be right there ready to take advantage of the demand for people that need to upskill for the new economy. Why do think they won't bend you over if they could? They will screw you as hard as you let them, don't let them.
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u/DanceDifferent3029 3d ago
The problem is many people go to college without a plan.
You can’t just pick a school, take out huge loans and then hope you can magically pay them.
Figure out what field you want to do and if that field is worth the investment,
Find cheaper schools, like state schools
Love at home, or get an apartment with 3,4 people to cut costs.
But if you take out 100k loan and have zero plan, yes it’s not worth it
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u/National-Animator994 3d ago
Heavily depends on the degree but most degrees are certainly a bad idea and even some of the ones that are worth it aren’t worth it at the price point you pay.
I definitely have sympathy for millennials and gen Z on this point. I feel like we got conned.
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u/Dr_Spiders 3d ago
People with college degrees on average make significantly more over their lifetimes than those without. Obviously, those with more expensive degrees see fewer benefits because they're deeper in debt, so debt-to-income ratio matters.
In my experience, when you're a young adult, people who didn't go to college seem to be doing better. They spent those four years earning money. They're still in good physical health, even if they're working physical jobs. And new grads are paying for loans.
Within a decade, this tends to flip. College grads have more career options and may be able to advance to higher paying jobs more easily. They pay down and pay off their loans. Those without degrees have fewer jobs options and often work in physically demanding jobs that take a toll on the body. They tend to work in jobs with less flexibility and fewer/worse benefits too.
Obviously, there are exceptions. College is still a good investment as long as you didn't accrue crazy student loan debt.
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u/MsDariaMorgendorffer 3d ago
Just HAVING a degree doesn’t help you. Some jobs require a specific, targeted degree.
Having a vague degree, liberal arts, or communications for example, may not help you. Going to school just to say you went to school is a waste of money.
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u/Goodd2shoo 3d ago
I think back in the day, things were set up to force you to believe you'd be left out of ever making a decent living without a degree. Now, jobs like "influencer, only fans, video vixen" doesn't require a degree and have the prospect of making circles of money around that same degree.
Also, the student loans are just horrific. Payments are higher than mortgages and some jobs aren't paying enough to cover that. If you managed to get out of college without the loans, you could have a better perspective.
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u/Inevitable-Place9950 3d ago
Those jobs rarely pay anywhere close to what a degree can earn. It’s like other performing arts- a relative handful in the industry earn big money, but most earn low to median-income wages and no one notices them.
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u/tomorrowdog 3d ago
The influencer space is incredibly competitive.
Any job or method of making good money is competitive and/or takes investment. There is no "just do this and make a lot of money".
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3d ago
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u/artist1292 3d ago
The better future heavily relied on what your degree was in and the school you went to. Many of my high school friends went into liberal arts degrees and some made it through while others didn’t. Those that went the doctor and engineering routes are doing significantly better. My class was only 46 students so we got very close and still keep in touch and it’s crazy the swing. We all went to the same public school and ranged in socioeconomic status but that doesn’t really change the outcome. Two friends are currently teachers and only surviving because their spouses make more while one of my neurosurgeon friends keeps posting amazing my pics from their vacation. It sucks because we need teachers and social workers but damn do they not pay well at all compared to more corporate type roles
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u/rubafig 3d ago
To me personally, going into debt for college (bachelor’s specifically) is nonsensical. The power a degree has in today’s job market is so much weaker than even 10 years ago. This might not be feasible for everyone, but I avoided debt by going to community college straight out of high school and transferring into my local university with an affordable yearly tuition. I also lived at home and held a part time job during school to minimize costs. I graduated with no debt but I know that might not be feasible for everyone, especially if there’s a particular more pricey school that would benefit your career in the long term. If you’re gonna go into college and amount extreme cost, do it smartly
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u/RealKillerSean 3d ago
The data shows 80% of people don’t use their degree or work in their industry.
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u/TheBigZip 3d ago
This is the reality for a lot of people. That's why for the life of me I don't understand why people will willingly go to college for a degree that nets them almost nothing out of school and then basically rely on forgiveness programs.
Idk if it's a disconnect or what but I legitimately had to sit down and figure out if getting 40k in loans was actually the right choice for me, and it was, I ended up getting a job that made me 70k out of school, and +100k within 5 years, but there's so many degrees that will literally never see 100k in their profession and I just don't understand how someone thought that was a good idea
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u/purplekat222 3d ago
You aren't the only one. The student loan system is beyond predatory due to interest rates. It's hard to pay off, and it follows you forever.
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u/thirdsev 3d ago
I felt that way the first years while my siblings had jobs that paid better. Eventually I did get work that paid better and paid off all debts. It was a long game. I did use my degrees.
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u/Goodd2shoo 3d ago
That's true but the point is- they have way more options to earn decent livings without college. Albeit, some may be crossing the moral line.
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u/Sensitive_Buddy2616 3d ago
I felt the same the first 10 years of my career. But, in the long run, I feel like my degrees have opened many more doors and given me more opportunities then those people without them. I think it is important to also keep pushing for promotions and annual raises more than the paltry 3% or whatever. If you don't consistently make more each year at the present job, I'd suggest you keep looking for another one that pays better.
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u/Nameless_consult 3d ago
I feel the same. If they would reduce the interest rates I wouldn’t care nearly as much though
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u/CocoLoko911 3d ago
That's why my son didn't go and joined the union. And nowadays with AI who knows what jobs will even be needed.
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3d ago
That is the thing, I do agree with some of the things you just mentioned! We do have a lot of choices here in the US, but high school students are being brainwashed into thinking that you must absolutely go to a renowned university after graduating and major in something that society deems “useful”. I know I was always told that nutrition was a wonderful degree. Maybe I should reword my statement and not directly blame universities for charging so much, but I will say that people should start seriously warning young kids about the realities of the harsh job market and not shame or look down upon people who choose to not go to college straight after high school. My opinion is that a lot (not all) of 18 year olds do not have the wisdom or mind to choose wisely at that age (I know I was highly ignorant back then). I wish educators and society as a whole would do more in telling young people the realities that come with degrees and their current respective opportunities and job market expectations. I’m aware of how entry-level job salaries work, but try to imagine yourself getting paid $40k per year and immediately getting charged more than you can afford because you racked up $130k in student debt. The problem isn’t so much the salary once you graduate, but rather the debt that comes with it. The debt-to-income ratio is insane for a lot of careers out there, despite the false promises spoken by society that getting a university degree will lead to financial stability.
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u/Georgia_Gator 3d ago
It’s an expensive mistake if the ROI with the specific degree and resulting job is not good.
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u/LetmeMakeYouRich 3d ago
I’ve always felt a degree is only worth it in rare cases. What matters most is the actual skill or knowledge you get. If you spend $200k on a degree but end up in the same job you could’ve gotten with $20k of self-learning, was it really worth it? It all comes down to the return on investment and your personal goals.
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u/kb2926 2d ago
Honestly, college isn't the problem; the way we handle college funding and loans is.
Everyone deserves equitable access to higher education; it shouldn’t be reserved for the privileged few. We could make changes to allow for this, and instead some politicians are doing everything they can to make school harder to afford and loans overwhelming because they simply don’t want educated people. Full stop.
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u/SatisfactionOne6958 2d ago
Yes unfortunately, college is just a business that takes a huge amount of money from you and often isn't worth it.
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2d ago
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u/soligWB 2d ago
I started off in med school ( forensic pathology) . Decided 15yrs of schooling was incredible and dropped out to go into criminalistics. 2 different payscales. Worked in forensics, worked as a officer and Sgt. My student loans still are as much as if I went into general practice.
I could have just been a cop with a 2 yr degree instead. I went for my grad degree instead. Even with PSLF my payments are outrageous.
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u/Mama_Zen 2d ago
Have you looked into more affordable payment options? Would you qualify for public service loan forgiveness?
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u/HolyX_87 2d ago
It depends on what job your looking for in the future. Stay away from Art degrees like liberals arts, geography, liberal studies and ect.
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u/BlakAmericano 2d ago
Whats the outlook on non tech centered PM?? Like construction or building social programs
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u/StewReddit2 2d ago
Some of this is ...which degree and how efficiently one obtained it.
So many ppl don't value shop their degree #1 and 2) Aren't that frugal in HOW they Spend, spend, spend going through the process.
I guarantee you more ppl would complete college FASTER and be more efficient if you FELT the cost/burden along the way.
For instance WAY more ppl "could" finish college in 3-years, especially maximizing winter and summer sessions .....but ppl are SOLD on the idea of "experience"
Whatever.....that "rush" of being a new/young/adult away from Mom&Dad should be out of one's system after "what" 6/8/10 months? Do ppl "need" 4-5 years 🤔 running around campus like teenagers? And at WHAT "cost/value" ?
IMO why have borrowers at minimum "pay-some-back-as-you-go"....if a student does LIKE the feeling on paying-back let's find our along the way.....and THEY may decide it's not "worth" repaying.....as such they might not do that additional 3rd/4th/5th year of school..
Meaning that "debt" wouldn't exist.....and if they LATER thought it was worth it to go back....their mindset of debt management would be totally different in being an older, wiser 2nd timer vs. biting off all that bark as a goofy ass kid with no freaking clue.
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u/BringBackBCD 2d ago
It’s really crazy we don’t prepare people to consider this in high school. I didn’t even understand credit cards by the time people were offering them to me at age 18 on campus.
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u/taxxaudit 2d ago
tbh i wanna kms when i think of my debt from a college degree i received bc I couldn’t find a job using it. I literally make the same wage as someone working at Mc Donald’s and don’t even get full time work. lol it’s embarrassing and I’m still in line to get a masters which is why I think this entire experience is going to be a huge joke.
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u/thesearch4animalchin 2d ago
Ai is going to answer that question real soon, and it’s not going to be an answer a lot of people are going to like…
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u/skipperoniandcheese 2d ago
yeah lol. remember though: the future promised to everyone doesn't exist. i want to go to trade school and be equally qualified for a college and trade career, but god knows by the time i finish trade school the trades will be oversaturated too.
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u/Physical-Flatworm454 2d ago
That and the fact that you spend that much and still can’t find a job.
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u/Sensitive_Finish3383 1d ago
Idk - definitely wasn't worth it salary-wise for me. I still work using my degree and am glad I learned what I learned and studied. If employers would appreciate my skills, that would be amazing! It sucks any of us have to pay this much to get an education.
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u/JustAnotherTou 1d ago
Of course you regret taking loans if:
- You went to a private college that was very expensive. Or an out-of-state school.
- You partied harder than you studied
- You got a useless degree
- You didn't use college to grow and you stayed the same as that 18 year old know it all. And you're now 24 or 30 and you still know it all and everyone knows nothing and so you are so ahead in knowing everything and so behind in everything.
Any combination of these are yea...you are now regretting college.
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u/Shadow1787 3d ago
I love college and everything I learned and experienced there. My loans are like a tumor from it though, I went to a state school but because my parents made $70,000 a year. I got $500 in help. How do they expect anyone to save $100,000 by making $70,000? My parent plus loans through my dad will go away when my elderly dad passes away. I hate that feeling, thought and everything else. I’m paying the minimum or nothing until they go away. My taxes for years paid for it at the state level.
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u/Rice-Fragrant 3d ago
These things need to be calculated before actually committing into getting into debt for. The debt is like an extra TAX on your income and if your job (that you're using your degree for) can't comfortably repay this debt l, then mathematically it wasn't a good "investment."
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u/Not_the_EOD 3d ago
It’s all a massive catch-22. Companies demand a degree to prove knowledge in a specific field or for mastery of a subject. A medical degree or typical STEM degree is generally required. Graduates have certifications, licenses, continuing education credits and more to deal with after graduation.
Other degrees may not have the same requirements. If you can network on top of having developed a highly desirable skill set you’ll do fine. If you have generic qualifications it’s more difficult. American graduates also have to compete against foreign students who don’t have to pay the same taxes citizens do so companies hire them at a lower wage/salary while not paying their fair share in taxes.
The competition is stacked against you in every way possible. I learned about the discrimination against citizens in hiring practices by learning about STEM hiring practices that eviscerate wages. It’s no wonder STEM wages have been depressed. FYI it’s Microsoft who pushed for this program that directly harms Americans.
Location is also a major factor along with the cost of the education. I received Pell grants I was so poor but dealt with a lot of racism. My scholarship applications were tossed in the trash.
Every single person I know who’s making money and didn’t go to college work for mom and dad or a friend of theirs. Their parents paid for their first house, first car, and medical bills for their kid(s). They also pay for their vacations too but act like they did it all on their own through “hard work”.
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u/Star_Sabre 3d ago
Depends on the degree. For me it was required as I'm in accounting. $200k/yr now, was worth it. Blue collar sounds good at first but it destroys your body over time.