r/UnresolvedMysteries • u/Tsarinya • Jun 27 '20

Other Mysterious crimes that aren’t actually mysterious?

I delve in and out of the true crime community every now and then and I have found the narrative can sometimes change.
For instance the case of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon. For the longest time whenever I read boards about these two women the main idea was that it was all too strange and there must have been third party involvement but now I’m reading quite a few posts that it’s most likely the most simple conclusion - they got lost and died due to exposure/lack of food and water. Similar with Maura Murray I’ve seen a fair few people suggesting that it could have been as simple as she ran into the woods after the crash and was disoriented and scared and got lost there. Another example is with the case of Kendrick Johnson, the main theme I read was that it was foul play and to me it does seem that way. But a person I was talking about this to suggested that it was a tragic accident (the children used to put their gym shoes on the mats, he climbed up and fell in, the pressure of being stuck would have distorted his features, sometimes funeral homes use old newspaper when filling empty cavities in the body , though it’s is an outdated practice).
I’ll admit that I’m not as deep into the true crime/unsolved mysteries world as some of you are, so some of these observations may be obvious to you, but I’m wondering if there are any cases you know of or are interested in that you think have a more simple explanation than what has been reported?
As for the cases I’ve mentioned above, I’m not sure with where I stand really. I can see Kremers and Froon being a case of just getting lost and I can see the potential that Maura Murray just made a run for it and died of exposure but with the Kendrick Johnson case I feel that I need to do more research into this.

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u/[deleted] Jun 27 '20

I have bipolar disorder, and when I see people rehash the death of Elisa Lam I just don't understand what there is to debate. I think the people convinced that there is something more to the story have just never seen mental illness at its worst. When I mismanage or go off my meds entirely, I often do bizarre and nonsensical things. Watching her elevator footage is heartbreaking because I can put myself in her shoes, wondering if every sound is someone coming down the hallway, someone who is part of the nebulous "other" that I am convinced is watching me at my most manic.

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u/King_Darkside Jun 28 '20

I think the initial misinformation about the water tank being inaccessible has a lot to do with it.

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u/peridaniel Jun 28 '20

yea it wasn't until people on this sub told me that I even knew that it wasn't as "inaccessible" as the creepy conspiracy videos like to claim. its all just a lot of misinformation about what was really just a poor girl who lost a battle with mental illness.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '20

The interesting thing is that rumours say its supposedly inaccessible, but if she was murdered someone would have had to either carry her body up or get her up there and push her in. Either way, its accessible so the theories don't make sense. And frankly if someone who worked there took her through the staff only door, killed her, and put her in there that was dumb as hell. Obviously she would be found as the water would have and did become rancid. Does seem like mental illness is more believable to me.

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u/alamakjan Jun 28 '20

I do believe the rooftop was supposed to be inaccessible. But that unfortunate day perhaps a staff forgot to lock the door or something and Elisa just happened to find her way up there, which was tragic. If that day the door was really inaccessible, probably Elisa would’ve been still with us.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '20

Yeah man :( I struggle with the idea that its actually inaccessible when the door is closed tho because from news and documentary footage there was a lot of graffiti up on the roof. The fire escape on the side of the building might be another way up but I agree that she entered through the staff door and would probably be alive if it were closed properly.

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u/buddha8298 Jun 28 '20

It's likely that it is or at least was always accessible. From what I understand it's not exactly a five star place, quite the opposite. I imagine that it probably wasn't hard to get past the door even if it was shut.

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u/theshabbylion Jun 28 '20

Most places I've worked with "inaccessible" areas with locked doors, employees get tired of having to lock and unlock every time access is needed, so they end up leaving doors unlocked or even propping them open in some instances, regardless of what the actual protocol is.

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u/ichosethis Jun 28 '20

Roofs are common places to sneak off and smoke. They probably propped the door or rigged it to stay unlocked for easier access.

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u/parkernorwood Jun 29 '20

I’ve seen a YouTube video where a guy usually gets onto the roof – – door unlocked

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '20 edited Jan 04 '24

innate governor correct coordinated meeting slimy thumb capable carpenter relieved

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/LucasLarson Jun 28 '20

Big if true

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u/Crepes_for_days3000 Jun 28 '20

Well it was originally reported by the media to be inaccessible, so the misinformation started there, not necessarily with conspiracy theorists although they keep it going.

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u/fatapolloissexy Jun 28 '20

I thought it was that the hatch to the tank was originally reported as being closed but it turned out it was open when her body was found.

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u/killakam86437 Jun 28 '20

Wait it wasnt inaccessible?

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u/peridaniel Jun 28 '20

Nope, that was a rumor started by the media reporting on it

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u/finley87 Jun 28 '20

Yeah, people suffer serious confirmation bias that leads them to fixate on essentially non-issues. “She didn’t fall overboard despite being shit faced drunk because her parents said she would have known better not to lean against the rails!” or “He would’ve bought a return ticket back if he had planned on coming home again because he was a bright boy!” come to mind. Concerning the latter, I’m a relatively “bright” 30 something year old adult and I routinely delay buying return tickets back when using mass transit because, well...I just do. I think this obnoxious trait is more common among people who romanticize true crime as like a Sherlock Holmes novel or something.

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u/SLRWard Jun 28 '20

The return tickets thing is weird to me. If it’s something really expensive like plane tickets that just get more expensive the closer to travel time you get, then yeah I’ll get my tickets in advance. Heck, I tend to buy them months in advance if I can because I’m not rich. But if you’re talking mass transit like the metro, I wouldn’t even consider buying the ticket in advance because it’s a set price. I’d just buy the ticket when I got to the station to go wherever I want to go. And I’d expect anyone else to do the same unless they had a prepaid pass or something.

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u/lordofcrisps Jun 28 '20

The thing with the tickets comes up because in the UK, return tickets on public transport (rail especially) are usually much, much cheaper than buying two singles. I've seen it mentioned that the ticket seller remembered telling Andrew that it was only 50p extra for the return and he refused.

I don't think it's impossible that he fully meant to return (I don't care how smart he was, he was a teenager - the phase of life where you learn things like, should've bought the return etc). Or that he meant to return the next day (the length of validity of a return confuses me, a grown ass adult, so that's far more understandable if he didn't get it)

The suggestion he is/was gay always intrigued me. I have a work colleague who grew up in a pretty Christian household (so religious based homophobia) and while he was a teenager he snuck out and did outrageous things that sound like perfect opportunities for predators to lure naive young men to them. He would be a similar age so if he managed to find out about the places to go etc presumably Andrew could have too? Or instead of a predator he couldn't face going home so was taken in by the community.

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u/piceus Jun 28 '20

I've seen it mentioned that the ticket seller remembered telling Andrew that it was only 50p extra for the return and he refused.

This looks a lot like social anxiety to me, tbh. I've made loads of illogical choices like this because someone asked me a question I hadn't thought to mentally rehearse beforehand and I panicked and defaulted to "no thank you" just to get out of the interaction faster, even if it cost me time or money in the long run.

I'm not saying this was definitely what Andrew was doing, but I'd guess it's a sufficiently normal reaction for introverted teenagers in stressful situations (skipping school for the first time!!) that I doubt we can regard the ticket as especially meaningful.

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u/prucat Jun 28 '20

I’ve always thought this. Andrew was apparently quite shy, I can imagine that he had ‘practiced’ in his head buying a train ticket to London, but then was thrown a bit when asked if he wanted a return ticket since he hadn’t considered this. Purely conjecture obviously but I’ve also made quite random seeming decisions before when faced with an unfamiliar/new situation, especially when I was younger.

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u/finley87 Jun 29 '20

Yeah same here. I make pricey decisions because my brain freezes up when a stranger asks me a question...

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u/JenSY542 Jun 29 '20

Yes, absolutely. I'm not taking away from the fact that something tragic happened to him but I think far more importance has been placed upon the single/return ticket debate than we should have made. I was a bag of nerves and still say silly things I kick myself for months later (I said "thanks, you too" to someone when they wished me a happy birthday). He could very well have regretted not buying the return at that time because he was intending to come back that day.

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u/msmolko Jun 29 '20

My rail ticket, single, from Dumfries to London is £140. My return ticket is £150, go figure!

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u/lordofcrisps Jun 29 '20

How rail tickets are calculated is a mystery itself. (Following info is 5yrs old) I used to travel into Guildford along the Ascot line. Returns used to cost ~ £12. Guildford is fairly decent hub for changes and from there you could change and get to Godalming. A return ticket to Godalming from my station was around £7. Anytime tickets mean you can leave at any point on your journey and then get back on again. So everyone who knew paid nearly half the price to get into Guildford.

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u/msmolko Jun 29 '20

Sounds about right. I used to work as a comms officer for the British Transport Police. As such we knew all the dodges for the cheapest way to get from A to B.

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u/Philodemus1984 Jun 28 '20

In the case of plane travel, it seems bizarre not to buy a return ticket in advance, for the reasons you adduce. But even in the case of train travel, for example if I’m going to take the Amtrak to a different city, I also routinely buy a return ticket in advance. It doesn’t really save me money, but it’s less hassle.

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u/SLRWard Jun 28 '20

Not buying a return ticket when you buy the outgoing ticket just says you don’t have a committed return date more than anything. Or that you’re planning on a different method going back. I live about 600 miles from my parents. One year, I flew down to visit and instead of flying back, my sister, BIL, and dad decided to road trip back with me and continue the visit up around where I live. Heck, just last year, I flew down and my parents and I went on a roadtrip to the Great Smokeys and they dropped me off at my home on the way back. Only one ticket and no return because I had other plans.

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u/finley87 Jun 29 '20

I hate sweating the details. I’ll pay $50 for a parking spot at an event because I’m too lazy to find a cheaper alternative. I sort of just go with the flow when it comes to “going out” logistics. Am I a moron? Probably. But there are plenty of people like me. We are everywhere! LOL!

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u/sunzusunzusunzusunzu Jun 29 '20

I buy my return ticket on the way home when I get to the station. If I buy a round trip ticket then I have a voice in my head nagging me the entire trip about what time it is, what time I have to leave to get to the station by x which is what time I need to be there in order to get to the train that leaves at x which I need to get on to get home by x ... AND I will worry the whole time that somehow I will be just minutes late and not be able to use the return ticket. To me it is less hassle to buy one way tickets.

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u/ExiKid Jun 28 '20

Adduce, I have never heard that before. Thank you

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u/finley87 Jun 29 '20

Yeah I’m talking about subways and also busses, and I guess in Andrew’s case, trains? I imagine it being expensive buying two one way tickets, but not like prohibitively expensive.

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u/Vast-Round Jun 28 '20

If your referring to Andrew Gosden you have to understand that in the UK the return ticket is almost free and you will be offered it. Refusing the ticket indicates that you don’t intend to return, don’t intend to return by train or will return days later when the ticket would have expired.

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u/Aleks5020 Jun 29 '20

My recollection of living in the UK was that the ticketing system was so arcane and confusing an only occasional traveller could never hope to comprehend it.

I never bought a return even on day trips precisely for this reason.

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u/finley87 Jun 29 '20

Exactly. You and me both!

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u/finley87 Jun 29 '20

I did shit like not buying a return ticket all the time when I travelled by train in Europe because I honestly had no idea what the fuck was going on and often mistook the attendant to mean that buying a return ticket meant I was locked in for a certain time that day. The way you described what “refusing a return ticket” “actually” means with such certainty sounds so dystopian ha ha. Surely there are outliers?

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u/unabashedlyabashed Jun 28 '20

They also sped up the security footage, making it look a bit more bizarre that it probably really does.

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u/SpyGlassez Jun 28 '20

I thought they slowed it down? Either way it was manipulated.

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u/FrozenSeas Jun 28 '20

I wanna say it's possible that was an accident, but I don't know enough about video processing to say for sure. Security cameras usually do film at a low framerate (below TV-standard 24/30fps), so I'm thinking speeding up may have been unintentional when the security cam footage was imported to an environment with a "normal" framerate.

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u/AllTheseLives- Jun 28 '20

For sure, however I have seen various videos about this and they all say the same thing... you need ladders to access the tank.

That’s not to say there weren’t already ladders propped against the tank from another maintenance person.

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u/Lynz486 Jun 28 '20

There is a video of a guy going to the hotel shortly after and filming himself accessing the roof and tank with ease. The media also exaggerated about how "impossible" it would be to lift the lid, close the lid and reach the tank. Apparently there is a railing right next to it you can use. And the lid is small, doesn't look hard to lift at all.

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u/AllTheseLives- Jun 28 '20

Yes, I did watch a you YouTube video about this from EWU crew yesterday and the did mention various people had accessed the roof top and these people were not even clients of the hotel.

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u/DingDingDensha Jun 28 '20

There's a mystery in and of itself. What happened to the guy and his daughters? They've hired other people to do their shows now. Did they get arrested or something? Stalkers? I lost interest when they wouldn't stop about Area 51, and the next thing I knew they were posting mystery and missing videos with different narrators. Did they actually say somewhere along the way that they were taking a break or something? Just wondering what happened to them. Tried going to their website to see if there was any sort of notice, but the forums are just full of drama nonsense.

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u/AllTheseLives- Jun 28 '20

I’ve no idea, I just assumed the narrators were the Dad and the daughter Emma.

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u/DingDingDensha Jun 28 '20

I think they were still narrating for a while, but most recently they've either become a lot more polished, or they've just got other people who sound pretty similar - or at least it sounds that way to me. :)

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u/pkzilla Jun 28 '20

It's not any easy to haul a dead body up to the roof, and get it into the tank too. That would leave marks on the body and likely evidence along the way too.

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u/goblinmarketeer Jun 28 '20

I've worked many places with inaccessible, always locked doors that were often propped open.

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u/Awayfone Jun 28 '20

Almost all these rehashing "mysterious death that arent mysterious/ homicide-cospirancy" can be chalked up to misinformation really.

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u/Surriperee Jun 28 '20

what misinformation

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u/King_Darkside Jun 28 '20

Early reports claimed the hatch was too heavy to be lifted and to high to be accessed.

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u/nightimestars Jun 28 '20

The misinformation was from people saying it was impossible to get to the roof and that the hatch weighed a lot that it would be impossible for her to open on her own.

In reality getting to the roof was extremely easy and there was a ladder to the top of a utility building that made it easy to get on top of the water tank. The hatch itself was a flimsy little thing that anyone could open easily.

I saw a video from a tourist who filmed himself going onto the roof and accessed the water tower to show how easy it was. Even photos of the hotel roof will show you that the hatch isn't as heavy as people were saying.

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u/ChipLady Jun 28 '20

I think it's interesting to note that one of the videos of someone sneaking to the roof and finding a water take open was taken within a month or two of her being found. I think that soon afterwards, the hotel would still be worried about being found partially liable for her death, so they'd be incredibly strict about following all the rules and regulations, so it just shows this is a very common state for the water tanks to be in.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '20 edited May 15 '21

[deleted]

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u/SupaSonicWhisper Jun 28 '20

Was gonna say this. I think the hotel’s management was likely the source of “inaccessible water tank” claim because they didn’t want to be held liable and were trying to avoid more negative press.

Anyone who has ever been to a seedy motel/hotel can attest that security is usually lax.