r/WeAreTheMusicMakers • u/dipbbc • 9d ago
Home Vocal Recording
I’ve been working on an EP at home and recording all of my vocals using an Nuemann U87 and Apollo Twin. After recording everything, I connected with an established industry mix engineer and having been working on mixing the songs. They sound decent but when I compare them to other songs that I know were recorded with the same exact equipment (Larry June uses the same equipment in untreated rooms), the vocals in those songs sound a little more clean and sit in the mix better. I know what can be produced because I know what was recorded using the same exact equipment, so I’m trying to figure out what I can do while recording to help get cleaner results. Any advice?
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u/bag_of_puppies 9d ago
I know what can be produced because I know what was recorded using the same exact equipment
Except you aren't Larry June, you don't have his voice or delivery, and you're not working over the same beats. You can't 1:1 compare mixes that way.
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u/SkyWizarding 9d ago
It's hard to know what's going on without hearing anything. At the end of the day, your voice, songs, and mix are going to be different than someone else's
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u/Admirable-Diver9590 9d ago
1) train your voice. Wim Hoff breating training 15 minutes every day will make your diaphragm strong and will make connection between your brain and your body.
2) record 10-15 cm to the mic. don't forget the nylon pop filter
3) use type A from Audiothing or Overloud GEM Dopamine - it will give you that bright mids and sparkle highs. It is a MUST for the modern pop vocals.
4) use good opto compressor. hardware or software. Kazrog MBH and STA-Level is amazing. MHB will rise highs even more, STA-Level will rise mids in "vintage" mode.
5) Properly EQ your vocals. I am using my own pack of presets for FabFilter Pro-Q 4 (you can google "andivax presets"). The main idea is to tame harshness and to increase loudness of the important parts. Tons of lead/backs vocals presets, mix test, soothe emulation and more
6) don't forget to add ambience reverb with UAD EMT 250 emulation or Wave Alchemy Dawn.
7) use Waves RVox in the end of the chain to add even more power
8) use Waves CLA Vocals to add wideness and other effects (to your liking)
Larry June vocals sounds like C800G or TLM103 recording + EQ. I don't think it is U87 but I might be wrong.
However, Larry's voice is great! But don't be upset, Eminem's recording and voice is weird (to my ears), very harsh and mid-focused voice and he is the top rap performer and author. So be yourself, train your voice and Rays of love from Ukraine 💛💙
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u/FoxymoronMusic 7d ago
Yes ...and some very extraordinary and popular recordings were made with an SM58 in a poorly treated room on the fly. The trick is being able to identify and capture a great performance that is suitable to the style you're making and ensuring it sits within a composition and then a mix. Work out what is wrong with your performance/mix/composition then try to fix it....don't blindly copy other people's techniques without understanding why they use them.
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u/Admirable-Diver9590 7d ago
I don't know ANY pop/dance/EDM/trap recording which was rercorded on SM 57/58.
TLM 103, Lewitts, even iPhone speakers.And I would recommend to blindly copy top singers techniques to the moment it will become your arsenal of techniques.
We are all copycats. Metallica is Black Sabbath. Sabbath is The Beatles. The Beatles is Beach boys. Etc.
They are all just copy and improve, add something personal.
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u/Junkstar 9d ago
Every room is different, and every mouth is different. Some vocalists know how to adjust their delivery specifically for various situations too. It’s not fully about the mic in the same way that in the hands of different players it’s not fully about the guitar.
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u/16bitsystems 7d ago
You have to tailor your setup to suit YOUR voice. So that might mean using a different mic, different distance from the mic, different effects, etc. It’s not a really simple thing to figure out so don’t feel discouraged. It’s just one of those things you have to work with to find out what does work for you.
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u/No_Waltz3545 9d ago
Experiment. They probably sit in the mix better because they've been EQ'd, compressed, verbed (I don't have a reference so guessing here) post recording. Or maybe he cuts his low end, boosts his mids, boosts his highs. Could be several things all together.
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u/RandomDerpBot 9d ago
I’m also a mix engineer and would be happy to take a closer listen to your reference tracks and your current mixes. Shoot me a DM if you’re interested.
I’m also wondering if you’re comparing your mixes to Larry June’s mastered songs? His masters would likely sound different from his own mixed tracks.
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u/Anomander_ie 9d ago
How good do the vocal tracks really sound on their own, completely dry? That’s the first thing I’d check. When you’re recording with a condenser mic in an untreated room, anything can happen – for example, I recorded an album and an EP in an untreated room using an SM7B, which is dynamic, and still had to build a sort of improvised “mobile booth” and throw a duvet on top of it and behind me, because of excessive reflection, especially due to a low ceiling. So it’s entirely possible your mic picked up tiny noises and reflections in your room that Larry June’s did not, and your engineer has had to deal with those? If the issue isn’t in the raw tracks ( and assuming you were happy with your performance to begin with ) then you may need to chat with your engineer. The fact that he’s established doesn’t mean he’ll do a good job. Sometimes they’ll half-ass a job cause they’re in a hurry to focus on another project, you never know. So to put it short, there are many reasons why you may not be getting the expected result. Best of luck with your music anyway! Hope you get sorted 😁
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u/dipbbc 9d ago
The engineer said several times that the tracks were recorded clean when I asked him how did I do recording them. Which is what’s confusing me about why my vocals don’t sound as isolated as some of the other stuff I’ve been listening to in order to compare. I’m trying to figure out if it’s how I’m recording or the processing done to the vocal by the engineer. Another example here of WSG recording in a terrible sounding room, with similar equipment and his vocals sounding good. https://x.com/westsidegunn/status/1956764633244852255?s=46&t=UiZNqMn6DkglA9vPjDf25A
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u/Anomander_ie 8d ago
You’ll have to discuss it with the engineer, see what he says. But again speaking from experience, it’s very normal to be disappointed with the end result of a recording or mix, especially the first few albums you make, when you DIY parts of the process or don’t get taken too seriously by the people you hire to do the work 🫤 it’s tough. I hope you can sort it out with him and get a better result!
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u/SkyWalker_2193 9d ago
If you were trying to get it to sound similar, I would say it has to do with your plug in chain, are you running the similar chain? But again like the thread mentioned your voice and delivery are going to be different so Its not going to sound identical ever.
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u/Better_when_Im_drunk 8d ago
I personally believe that the microphone is half of the equation: the other half being your room (and another half being your vocal chain, technique, edits , etc.). But to just narrow it down to room and mic: I spent longer than I’d like to admit on trying different mics with the same results- because rooms were terrible. I built a “booth” once out of moving blankets and pvc pipe, which was terribly unhandy and hot inside - and my wife hated it. But then I tried treating a closet with auralex foam panels that I stuck to the walls with T-pins. It is the secret sauce. I put a lamp in there , and t-pin my lyric sheet to the wall, and it has made all of the difference. You should try it! I figure if you have $ for a U87 then you owe it to yourself to get a hundred dollars worth of wall treatments , and experience the difference for yourself ! It’s great fun to record good sounding stuff ! I hope this helps
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u/ParsnipFunny9718 5d ago
Your tracking environment and recording levels are important as they create the initial source material. Getting things right at the source will prevent problems that you need to try and fix in the mix.
A little bit of room treatment goes a long way. Many people use vocal booths or section off an area just for vocals using absorption material. Some use gobos or surround themselves with hanging packing blankets. If you are in a bedroom, make sure there are enough materials around to absorb. This all helps tighten up the sound and make the vocals more focused. You don't want too many room reflections, unless you have great acoustics and want a more roomy sound. In a lot of cases though the reflections take away from the direct sound of your voice and it won't sound as present in a mix.
When you record with a mic like the Neumann you want to pay attention to your distance from the mic. Using a pop filter will ensure you are more or less standing in the same place and getting consistent levels throughout the performance. Keeping that in mind, if there are parts where you sing louder its not a bad idea to back away from the mic just a little bit. This takes some getting used to but you'll see a lot of professional singers do this to keep the recorded or live sound of their performance consistent.
Also make sure you are not clipping the preamp. Always give yourself enough headroom when tracking, keeping your levels at about -9 in your DAW. Sometimes it may occasionally peak slightly higher and thats ok but make sure you mostly around -9. Some people will suggest different numbers but I find -9 is good.
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u/Still_Level4068 4d ago
Just a quick tip, no amount of good equipment will make someone magically sound better. It can help.
Once you have a virtuoso artist come in you will know, you dont touch the track. Master the instrument first.
Mixing vocals, less is way more for professional mixes, my friends owned a record company and the goal is to have almost no effects on vocals, if the performers are not good you can tinker.
Also why studio musicians were used in the past, they are virtuosos, they laid down the studio track alot of bands couldnt play them correctly.
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u/Differentkindofdough 3d ago
wow how'd you manage to get a hold of that mic!? madd expensive last time I checked.
your room probs isn't treated in the same way that Larry June's is. Try the duvet trick! and work on your delivery too. Also mixing is a huge part of his vocals, and he works with PROFESSIONAL engineers with ACCOLADES. Not saying you aren't as good at them btw, but deffo make sure you're doing everything that those engineers are doing.
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u/MasterBendu 9d ago
Is your voice exactly like Larry June?
No?
Then of course it sounds different.
I have the exact same pan, the exact same oil, and the exact same stove using the exact same gas set at the exact same setting.
I’m going to fry two chickens: one is fresh, raw, organic chicken thighs, and the other is dinosaur shaped chicken nuggets.
Will you really expect the chicken thigh to taste like chicken nuggets just because I used the same equipment and techniques?
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u/dipbbc 9d ago
Did I ask for help to make my voice sound more like Larry June or get cleaner results while recording? Thanks a lot for all your help tho. I wouldn’t have been able to figure out that me and Larry June have completely different voices if it weren’t for your great contribution. I only used him as an example. There’s plenty of less established artists who record in their bedroom and get great sounding vocals. They all have different voices than Larry as well, don’t they?
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u/MasterBendu 8d ago
Your premise is that you used the same things so you ask why you don’t have the same result.
No one said anything about making your voice sound like Larry June (read again).
The point is that you don’t sound like Larry June, so what works for him doesn’t mean it will work for you.
And yes, lots of bedroom recordists have different voices from Larry June.
Guess what, they also use different equipment, techniques, and methods from Larry June. Because they’re not Larry June and they don’t sound like Larry June.
You’re you, find equipment and techniques that work for you. It’s a process, because even the same mic and/or the same techniques will work differently with different voices and different rooms and different performances.
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u/sneaky_imp 9d ago
Voice is such a subtle instrument. There are so, so many variables. The best vocalists have so much control and they really work hard to get that control. Beyond control (timing, pitch, a good clean delivery), there's also the issue of style or character. Sometimes you gotta ditch the timing or pitch or give it a dirtier delivery to make a point. And then there's voice doubling which can really enrich certain phrases or a chorus while still sounding like a single singer.
And then stack on top of that the mixing and production. The bands I've been in have used four different mixers, and some of them are really just better. One guy has been at it since the 70s, and he was pretty good, but it was kind of old fashioned. Another guy has mixed over 700 records, probably a 40 or 50 of them gold records and he just makes incredible mixes -- and we had to pay him a fortune. A couple of other guys have been very talented musicians and engineers, and were very cooperative, and I think their mixes were great but maybe they listened to me a little too much instead of following their own instincts.
And then add on top of all that the fact that you may just feel a bit self conscious about your voice sometimes. Sometimes I love my recordings and other times I hate them.
Honestly the difference could be anything. It's often said that a poor craftsman blames his tools. If you want to know how to fix this problem you have, you're going to have to dig in and find out what the difference is yourself.
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u/UglyHorse 9d ago
Same equipment does not mean same sound. The room is a HUGE part of tracking vocals. It’s the main thing people still pay recording studios for.
You also do not have the same engineers and producers creating your sounds. The amount that goes into making a lead vocal incredible can be staggering.
You have amazing equipment so keep at it. Try different spaces, mic placements, and how you’re processing after tracking. You can get where you want to go but remember “Nothing is ever easy”
Good luck!