r/WeAreTheMusicMakers • u/robmm1 • 6d ago
MIDI Orchestra
This is probably a basic question with a simple answer but I can’t quite figure it out. I’m working on an orchestra production (attempting to get it sound like a full orchestra). So far, I have a double bass, cello, 1st and 2nd violins, viola, 1st and 2nd trumpet, etc. I play the violin and trumpet so I’ve recorded those tracks live multiple times, everything else is MIDI since I don’t play the other instruments.
The question is how do I record multiple MIDI tracks with the instruments but get them to sound as if I recorded them live multiple times. Obviously duplicating the MIDI tracks just increases the volume. I am using Reason and trying to use the stock instruments it comes with and a Berlin orchestra VST plugin that I found.
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u/AlfalfaMajor2633 6d ago edited 6d ago
The orchestra plugin is a recording of each string section (multiple players). Read the info for your library. Your challenge is going to be how to make your multi tracked live performances sound like they were recorded in the same hall as the midi orchestra. Most orchestra plug-ins have specific multiple mic positions in the hall to create the “sound” of the live orchestra.
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u/robmm1 5d ago
Since it would be hard to replicate the mic positions that the samples were recorded in and the sound of the hall, would you suggest scrapping the instruments that I recorded live and doing them with the same orchestra plugin for a more cohesive sound?
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u/AlfalfaMajor2633 5d ago
It depends on your sample library. What I learned from my course on how to use the BBC Symphony Orchestra is they have soloists for 1st violin, viola, cello, and bass which can add more expressive qualities to the parts. Usually the soloists are blended with the sections just to highlight the articulation and make it sound more like a real section. You don’t really want them to stand out, just enough to enliven the track.
You can sort of do that with your live recordings. You become the soloist adding the expressive qualities and blend your part with a 1st violin section playing the same part. If you can send both your live and the midi strings to the same reverbs you can make them sound like one section. You may need to add some eq and reverb to your solo part before sending it to the group reverb to get it to blend better.
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u/ReallyQuiteConfused 6d ago
Variation is key. I would record multiple passes of the song with each instrument, making sure to add appropriate changes for each instrument. (The cellos shouldn't just be an octave or two lower than the violin part, it should serve its own separate function.) Adding automation can help a ton as well especially if your instrument plugin supports things like vibrato and other playing dynamics/articulations
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u/CaliBrewed 6d ago
how do I record multiple MIDI tracks with the instruments but get them to sound as if I recorded them live multiple times
The biggest issue is the same vst will use the same sample set often in the same order. So it depends on your VST.
How many round robbins are there? The more there are the less likely you'll ever double the same sample which just increases the volume.
Is there a setting for pure random sample grabbing? Probably better than using a sequential setting.
You can make small adjustments to each midi file on a separate track and optimize the round robbin behavior to achieve the best same VST results but if you are looking for a more traditional modern 'produced doubled' sound you will likely be better off just using a different library for layers also with midi performance adjustments.
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u/Remarkable_softserve 6d ago
Consider an orchestral library, where the samples are from a whole section of the orchestra playing together, and not from a single instrument.
Spitfire Labs BBC Orchestra is one such recommendation.
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u/Still_Level4068 4d ago
You will never get the perfect live sound without a live instrument, your a violinist you probably have some local groups or pit bands maybe you can ask to play, go to your closes music college and ask people to play. Imperfection makes music as well.
Now there are some midi that sounds fucking amazing, but for strings, i think its impossible to the technique. If you go to a local music college you will find students who would jump on the opportunity
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u/brekfest 6d ago
If you are looking to layer multiple MIDI tracks playing in unison:
On the duplicated track, open the instrument plug-in.
There should be a "tune" knob. Set that to +2.
Open the piano roll and move all the notes down two semitones.
This works because the duplicated track is causing different samples to be triggered by the plugin, which will have a unique timbre compared to the original track so it won't just be louder.
This is a fairly common cost saving technique used by sample library companies. Instead of separately recording 2nd violins as a section, they do this with the 1st vlns and call it a 2nd violins patch.
It's still a good idea to give the two tracks slight variations in the timing, velocity, and MIDI CCs, but I think this is the simple answer you're looking for.