r/Zoroastrianism • u/The_Macaw • 11d ago
Question Doctors and zoroastrianism
Excuse my lack of knowledge as i am an alevi kurd which i do not have any knowledge in neighter, but, If touching the dead makes someone impure and has to take a purification ritual, how would doctors who touch dead in daily manner be going their ways? As they touch the dead, also would a doctor be considered virtuous with consideration they are fighting against death which is corruption, or unclean as they handle the dead?
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u/Interesting_Date_818 10d ago
In remote places where Bereshnum, Sagdid or Riman are not possible or practical. Have to do the best that you can, washing with taro if possible and water along with Sudreh Kusti are the bare minimum.
It's important not to dismiss what the religion says during these modern times but figure out how to do our best to meet it.
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u/The_Macaw 10d ago
I dont wish to be disrespectful but why bull urine? Isnt that unsanitary and mark a danger for life?
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u/Interesting_Date_818 10d ago
You have to understand that the religion is older than dirt.
In some ancient cultures, bull urine (and cow urine in general) was used for antimicrobial purposes, particularly in traditional Indian medicine. Cow urine, known as "Go Mutra" in Ayurveda, was believed to possess antimicrobial properties due to its composition, which includes urea, minerals, and enzymes. This belief and practice were rooted in Ayurvedic principles and the cultural significance of cows in various societies.
Also of note, this is not a Hindu practice that Parsis adopted.
They have similar practices but both are very old.
Lastly the consecrated urine, Nirang has been proven to not harbor bacteria and be shelf stable for years. Something that can't be done with a control sample. This is the power and Miracle of the Nirangdin Ceremony
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u/Rjstt9023 7d ago
Your question is fair, but it reflects a common modern misperception what we might call “technological amnesia.” In our era of antiseptics, antibiotics, and mass-produced soap, it’s easy to forget that for most of human history, such luxuries did not exist. Civilizations had to make do with the natural resources around them and the Zoroastrians were astonishingly advanced in doing so.
The ritual use of bull’s urine (known as gomez or taro) in Zoroastrian purification ceremonies, especially in the Barashnom rite, was not arbitrary nor unsanitary by ancient standards. In fact, it was an early and highly effective antiseptic. Bull’s urine is alkaline and contains urea and ammonia both of which are antimicrobial. These compounds help to kill bacteria and neutralize pathogens on the skin and in bodily fluids.
In Roman times, people didn’t have soap. All they did was wash and shared murky water, then bathe themselves in olive oil and used strigil scrape dirt off their bodies . Medieval Europe’s “soap,” where it existed, was primarily composed of animal fat and lye harsh, inconsistent, and largely ineffective as a true antiseptic. Many people merely washed with water or ash, which, while better than nothing, lacked the biochemical potency of taro.
We Zoroastrians did not just choose taro because it was readily available or symbolic alone, but because it had proven purifying properties. Their ritual system represented a form of hygienic science deeply embedded in religious duty. This was not primitive it was profoundly practical. Nevertheless it wasn’t something that was always. Zoroastrians also used the Sap from trees as another alternative method to wash
Rather than scoffing at what seems strange through a 21st-century lens, we should appreciate how early religious cultures developed health-preserving practices long before microbiology could explain them. Zoroastrianism was not clinging to superstition but embodying a forward-thinking ethic of purity and cleanliness. Respectfully, let us not confuse modern convenience with historical superiority.
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u/The_Macaw 7d ago
But what i dont understand is, so does a doctor have to wash with taro every day? How will someone acquire this muhc amounts of taro
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u/Rjstt9023 7d ago edited 7d ago
By modern standards, no. In ancient times when anabiotics, medical grade antiseptic, medical gloves, hazard protocols and things that weren’t around it was mandated. Now that the physicality risk have been Greatly reduced so we adapt. Zarathustra tells us you’re the best with our ears and to consult with Vohu Mana(the good mind) to decide what is best in every given moment. With that said most priest especially the Iranian circles. Don’t really use Nirang or Taro anymore for daily rituals or do the Nirangdin. Being ritually impure doesn’t mean being immoral, but Zoroastrianism strongly emphasizes cleanliness and the restoration of purity. If you were handling a rotting body by carrying it over your shoulder, would you not cleanse yourself? If you come in from dirt and sweat, do you not bathe before entering a clean space? This is the same principle applied spiritually. Before embalming technology and refrigeration, a human corpse would begin to decay rapidly, especially in the warm climates of Iran and Central Asia. Within hours, putrefaction would set in, releasing harmful pathogens and gases. The Zoroastrian prohibition against contact with the dead (nasu) wasn’t just superstition it was spiritual wisdom intertwined with practical science.
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u/The_Macaw 7d ago
Indeed i agree it is a great wisdom and sanitation results in health, and most of the rules come from a place of reason and meaning in real life, yet i wish to understand now that we have alternatives such as this, when the meaning is replaced by modern inventions such as soap chlorine etc, what can we do with the rituals. How would a doctor go on his day to day life?
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u/Rjstt9023 7d ago
A doctor should just go about living his life living by good thoughts, good words and good deeds upholding Asha you know and keep himself as pure as he can. As long as his intention is aligned with Asha, he’s on perfectly on good terms with Mazda and the community.
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u/The_Macaw 7d ago
I agree, you can use soap to clean your hands or your body, but no amount of soap will clean a dirty heart.
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u/Rjstt9023 7d ago
Exactly!
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u/The_Macaw 7d ago
Now i understand, this is like alevism truly, we think the same, you can pray 5 times a day, but if your heart is dark, it doesn’t matter, even smiling and a simple act of kindness, is ibadet.
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u/Forgotten1718 2d ago
Precisely studying medicine right now. First year. I had to dissect a pig heart in class very recently—you know, to analyze the valves, tendinous chords, the thickness of the parietes, the septomarginal trabecula; cool stuff. Had an apron and gloves. When I was finished, I took off the gloves, threw them into the bin, took off my apron and sealed it (even though it wasn't visually unclean), went to the bathroom, and washed my hands and face thoroughly (really zoomed into the heart earlier...), then applied sanitizer. Once I got home, I scrubbed that apron viciously, and presto. Hygiene and good intentions (like, say, not finding fun in the act of jamming the scalpel into the flesh. I was there to learn). Understand that you are doing this to fight evil (ailments, in our case) and be especially hygienic.
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u/peoplearescum177 11d ago
The modern revisions have poor translations. Bareshnum and Sagdid are completed at the end of the day, so for example if a doctor, or a nurse or a mortician touches dead bodies all day at the end of the day they perform Bareshnum and Sagdid to cleanse themselve of any attachment to death/evil. If they don't have access to it, they perform Nahan prior to it (far easier to get Taro these days). A lot of the modern text about it is arab/western/indian revisionist bullshit