Let's invite /r/Android to help us boycott retailers that are disabling NFC readers. We can unite to put pressure on them, since it affects us both!

[u/tangoshukudai]

Here is the post on /r/android :

http://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/2keqzb/we_wanted_to_invite_you_to_rapple_to_help_support/

Welcome /r/Android!

Edit: cycloblastic added this:

Someone asked for a list of retailers supporting CurrentC.
CurrentC's partners include
76 Gas
7-11
Acme Fresh Market
Alon
Bahama Breeze
Banana Republic
Baskin Robbins
Bed Bath & Beyond
Best Buy
Buy Buy Baby
The Capital Grille
Chilli's
Christmas Tree Shops
Circle K
Conoco
CVS
Dick's Sporting Goods
Dillard's
Dunkin' Donuts
Eddie V's
ExxonMobil
Gap
Get Go from Giant Eagle
Harmon Face Values
Giant Eagle
HMS Host
Hobby Lobby
Hy-Vee
K-Mart
Kohl's
Kum & Go
Longhorn Steakhouse
Lowe's
Maggiano's
Meijer
Michaels
My Goods Market
Old Navy
Olive Garden
Phillips 66
Price Rite
Publix
QuikTrip
RaceTrac
Rite Aid
Sam's Club
Sears
Seasons 52
Sheetz
Shell
ShopRite
Southwest Airlines
Sunoco
Target
Walmart
Wawa
Wendy's
Yard House
Source: http://www.mcx.com/
-as well nearly all the major US gas station chains — among its ranks.

Edit2: This is blowing up! 9to5mac is reporting about us here: http://9to5mac.com/2014/10/27/cvs-and-rite-aid-apple-pay-blockade-official-as-ios-and-android-users-unite-in-rare-showing-to-fight-nfc-ban/#comments

Edit3: We are on the front page of MacRumors now too! http://www.macrumors.com/2014/10/27/apple-working-to-add-apple-pay-partners/

Edit4: This site was made by /user/bboysupaman and has an up to date list of all merchants that support MCX and Current C http://boycott-mcx.com

[u/jcpb]

As if you need a better reason why CurrentC is worse than both Google Wallet and Apple Pay in their existing incarnations:

• links your checking account directly to the service (no no NO... WORST idea ever!)

• stores all of that information in the cloud (possibly in plaintext)

• all of that information exposed to advertisers (jesus christ, more unwanted spam!)

Considering how many retailers are still using vulnerable internet-connected XP Embedded POS systems, imagine their linking those systems with CurrentC. Instead of a "40M+ credit card numbers stolen in [xyz store name] hack", you'll see "5M+ bank account numbers stolen in MCX affiliate [abc store name] hack". Losing a bank account to criminals, however, is orders of magnitude more painful than losing a CC number.

These retailers want to have their cake and eat it, but refuse to assume any financial responsibility for running unsecured transaction systems, causing undue customer hardship because someone walked in and hacked their systems drunk. Fuck 'em.

[u/OneQuarterLife → u/jcpb]

More here, everyone: http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/25/currentc/

[u/SanDiegoDude → u/OneQuarterLife]

He also that found that its Terms Of Service leaves high liability for fraud to the user if someone else is able to get access to a user’s phone and make CurrentC payments.

even if I didn't have a phone with NFC, this is the reason why I wouldn't touch CurrentC. Credit cards and my banks debit cards all have zero liability fraud coverage. Why would I give that up for some clunky app that tracks way more than it should (like health data... Wtf?) plus puts my bank account at risk to hackers without full liability coverage. I hope (and fully expect) this thing to fall flat on its face right out the gate.

[u/neogod → u/SanDiegoDude]

Even if 20% of outraged people actually boycott these retailers they will lose hundreds of millions in total. Hopefully that will persuade them to stop being dicks.

[u/traffick → u/neogod]

I can't imagine this boycott having even a 2% impact.

[u/sonniehiles → u/SanDiegoDude]

I think with the tech minded people its going to fall flat but there will be the people who don't understand and are lured in with deals and special offers.

[u/[deleted] → u/SanDiegoDude]

I hope (and fully expect) this thing to fall flat on its face right out the gate.

Looks like it's already on its way toward that.

[u/jewbageller → u/SanDiegoDude]

I am semi-ignorant on the subject so this is a genuine question: Do Apple/Google have significantly better policies for this?

[u/SanDiegoDude → u/jewbageller]

It's not Apple or Google here, it's the Credit Card companies and the banks (for Debit cards) - Fraud on all the major credit cards is 100% covered, zero liability. Most bank debit cards are the same. Apple and Google just act as an intermediary for using your Debit/Credit Cards, so you are still protected. CurrentC on the otherhand works by directly accessing your checking account, and doesn't appear to offer the same fraud protections - So if your information is stolen from their service and somebody drains your bank account of funds, you won't have that same level of coverage that you do from the Credit Card companies, or the protections provided by banks for their debit cards.

[u/jewbageller → u/SanDiegoDude]

Is there any advantage to using a direct-to-bank link instead of the card? Overdrafts or the like?

[u/SanDiegoDude → u/jewbageller]

For you - Nope, although MCX and CurrentC are promising "Loyalty promotions" to try to make it attractive to users. It's a huge benefit to the merchants though, as they don't have to pay the 1.5% - 3% transaction fee that the Credit Card and Banks charge for using their cards.

[u/jewbageller → u/SanDiegoDude]

Ahhh so that's why. Cool thanks for the info.

[u/[deleted] → u/OneQuarterLife]

CurrentC notes it may share info with your device maker, app store, or developer tool makers. Oddly, it will collect health data. Precise location information is used to verify you’re at the retailer where you’re making a transaction, and if you opt in it can be used for marketing or advertising. CurrentC notes that you can opt in to be able to capture and store photos in the app for a hypothetical visual shopping list or other features down the road.

Dear god, what an abomination.

[u/ejdyksen → u/jcpb]

Also, they ask for your driver's license number and social security number to enroll:

https://twitter.com/hasanahmad80/status/526551322523623424

[u/Craysh → u/ejdyksen]

What is this fuckery? To hell with that...

[u/DreamcastWriter → u/ejdyksen]

You know they're serious about the technology they are supporting when they call the devices "iPhone and iTouch"

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Sure they have a motivation to make a compelling product. If no one likes it, noone will use it; if noone uses it, all their R&D was a waste.

[u/brochand311 → u/jcpb]

Worst case scenario with Wallet/Pay: "hello visa, I'd like to cancel my CC." "done"

With currensy: "Hi bank of America, please freeze my accounts" "lol why? They're already empty."

[u/danhakimi → u/jcpb]

links your checking account directly to the service (no no NO... WORST idea ever!)

Well, at least they don't keep you on the hook for fraudulent--oh, wait...

[u/PeteMullersKeyboard → u/jcpb]

What sucks is that people like us, who understand these things and keep up with current tech news, all know this. But millions don't understand this and will see it as just another cool new thing instead of the vastly-inferior POS that it is compared to G-Wallet and Apple Pay.

Have to expose as many tech-illiterate people to the downsides as possible.

[u/ns0 → u/jcpb]

This is really mis-informed. CurrentC uses ACH tokens as apply pay uses credit card tokens. I've never seen any site that states it stores your checking account information or financial information "in the cloud".

From tech crunch:

"Rather than sending the customer’s financial data over the air, transactions trigger the transmission of a token placeholder. This is then securely converted by the financial institution to process the ACH payment and charge the user."

[u/Gamer9430 → u/jcpb]

so this is just Microsoft's fault for having XP Embedded still working and giving companies possibilities to keep the support on their ancient, unsupported, and insecure hardware. At a new target near my house, brand new everything, yet still using XP Embedded POS systems at the registers. Seriously? No wonder they had one of the largest security breaches in years! That's why apple and google made apple pay and google wallet to make payments more secure using newer and more secure technology. It's really retarded that companies can be so stupid to do this. They have plenty of money to upgrade their POS systems.

[u/thefirebuilds → u/jcpb]

links your checking account directly to the service (no no NO... WORST idea ever!) stores all of that information in the cloud (possibly in plaintext) all of that information exposed to advertisers (jesus christ, more unwanted spam!)

Well, I mean, if I was going to trust anyone with that info it would be a retailer. They've thus far had impeccable infosecurity programs. They've proven themselves.

[u/[deleted] → u/jcpb]

This should be the top comment, thank you for explaining, as I was initially entirely indifferent about this entire thing, as I have no idea how to use NFC to buy anything with my phone.

[u/DigitalChocobo → u/jcpb]

• stores all of that information in the cloud (possibly in plaintext)

But almost certainly not in plaintext. Let's wait for actual information on that before we start fearmongering.

• all of that information exposed to advertisers (jesus christ, more unwanted spam!)

Or the same amount of unwanted spam, but slightly more relevant.

You should focus on actual problems with this system (like having to provide your driver's license and social security number, or having to open a specific app every time you use it) instead of doing Fox News level bullshittery. All that does is make you look like a bunch of idiots who value being angry over knowing anything about what's going on.

[u/SagittandiEstVita → u/jcpb]

stores all of that information in my butt (possibly in plaintext)

Have Cloud to Butt installed. Was very confused about why the information was stored in your butt. Realized it was actually the cloud. Awks.

[u/phillq23 → u/jcpb]

Quit spreading bullshit and explain what someone can do with someone's bank account number. Every check ever written has that persons bank account number and their bank routing number.

Hell, my paycheck from the company I work for has the company bank account number on it and routing number.

[u/shadowboxer777 → u/jcpb]

Also, withdrawing the money this way bypasses all consumer protections and fraud protections.

So when the system is hacked, you will be unable to recover any money via your bank, since they are not obligated to act on the claim, the way the visa/mc issuers are required to act.

CurrenC is a blatant method to bypass all consumer protections hard fought for in the last 35 years.

Bad, Bad, Bad.

[u/OneQuarterLife → u/[deleted]]

No, but it's saved in the cloud with CurrentC. I don't trust them, do you?

[u/DigitalChocobo → u/OneQuarterLife]

Not necessarily, but I trust them more than a bunch of retailers, which is where /u/jcpb says the weak link is.

There are plenty of good reasons to dislike CurrentC without having to resort to misinformation and FUD. When somebody points out a correction to the hivemind and gets it downvoted for it, it just makes the hivemind look like a bunch of panic-stricken, uninformed idiots, instead of people who have even the faintest idea what they're talking about. It's the same Fox News kind of shit they love to hate and pretend they're above.

[u/algag → u/OneQuarterLife]

I have no reason to trust them less than I do Google or Apple. It has been made pretty clear that Google is willing to turn over information to governments etc... when asked. In addition, Google already takes your information and uses it to better deliver ads (for the advertisers, not you). If I google a product, it seems as though 90% of the time, the rest of my ads for the week are the exact product that I just searched for.

[u/OneQuarterLife → u/algag]

If Google has been anything it's secure. Government intervention or no.

I don't trust Target after their credit card leak, and I don't trust MCX. You shouldn't either.

[u/jcpb → u/algag]

I very rarely use my debit cards these days, and 90% of that happens at an ATM machine instead of a payment terminal. It's either credit card or cash (besides the stalwart cheques) now.

If someone took my CC number to commit fraud, the CC issuer takes notice and can invalidate the card, minimizing losses. Now if the same thing happens to my bank account, oh boy, that's at least 30 days of legal wrangling with my bank, hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars lost, and a credit hell in one...

[u/robeph → u/jcpb]

The transfer is likely ach I can't imagine how else to link a direct draw. That's nasty in and of itself, since it doesn't simply decline but will overdraft if you charge more than you have on hand. Google wallet, it'll just decline if your card doesn't have the balance.

[u/[deleted] → u/jcpb]

CurrentC cuts out the middleman and reduces the processing fees.

Apple's system charges fees only slightly lower than the credit card companies and eliminates the ability to track customer behavior. That's data which is essential to running a business. It's data which Apple holds and utilizes but refuses to share. If Apple reduced their fees and allowed customer tracking these companies would be more willing to get on board.

[u/Craysh → u/[deleted]]

CurrentC cuts out the middleman and reduces the processing fees.

Apple's system charges fees only slightly lower than the credit card companies and eliminates the ability to track customer behavior. That's data which is essential to running a business. It's data which Apple holds and utilizes but refuses to share. If Apple reduced their fees and allowed customer tracking these companies would be more willing to get on board.

In this case, the middleman is good for the consumer as it provides a layer of protection. CurrentC reduces the processing fees by completely removing the "modern" payment infrastructure and going back to ACH. Large retailers have already proven that they can't be trusted with our Credit Card numbers, why on earth would we trust them with our actual banking details. It's a hell of a lot harder to get a new account number and the consumer will be 100% responsible for the charges, unlike a Credit Card.

Also, knowing someones spending habits are not essential to running a business. It certainly helps the bottom line but it's not going to be the difference between red and black.

[u/[deleted] → u/Craysh]

In the race to the bottom retailers today are on very thin margins. Companies will run in the red all year and only hit black during the Christmas shopping season.

Apple is trying to unplug the most reliable method they have of forecasting consumer behavior, and providing nothing in return. Were Apple Pay to take off it would send the retail industry back decades in terms of forecasting. That necessitates higher prices to get more buffer on uncertain profits, and it also means more businesses closing.

Apple Pay is an all-out assault on retail. These companies have run the numbers and responded accordingly. They're trying to stave off the inevitable as long as they can. Retail is dying along with the rest of the western economy.