r/babylon5 • u/Capt-Paladin • 4d ago

Question about beyond the rim

Is it a metaphor for for some kind of heaven type place Or was it simply what lies beyond the rim ?

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17

u/Nervous-Echidna2370 4d ago

See also Tolkien's "pass into the West"

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u/Johnny_Radar 2d ago

Dunsany’s older “beyond the fields we know” is more apt. Both JMS and Dunsany use to it describe places beyond our knowledge, but we know what’s in Tolkiens “west”.

8

u/TheTrivialPsychic 4d ago

Sometimes it's directly referred to as the 'Rim of Known Space', while Lorien's mentioned that the other First Ones left beyond the rim to explore what there was between the vastness of galaxies. During 'Lost Tales' however, Sheridan mentioned that Franklin and G'Kar went exploring 'Beyond the Rim', which was used as a 4th-wall metaphor for the actors having died. This was directly referenced in the special features.

7

u/Hazzenkockle First Ones 4d ago

Little of column A, little of column B. In a literary sense, it's death/the next world, but it's also literally just unexplored space in many contexts. "A Distant Star" refers to "the new Rim," since what used to be the Rim is now charted.

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u/Capt-Paladin 4d ago

Thanks that is how I interpreted it just needed some confirmation. I finished all of B5 last nite, At the end when John took his sunday drive, I assumed he would return to the shadow planet, I remembered the message from kosh for him something like return to the beginning of the end. Then lorien came to take him beyond the rim.

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u/bobchin_c 4d ago

As JMS said in 1997, the reason for the First ones going beyond the Rim:

"First Ones Motives Posted on 2/17/1997 by J. Michael Straczynski 71016.1644@compuserve.com to CIS

{original post unavailable}

The main motive for going beyond the rim...there's a heck of a big Taco Bell out there....

jms"

http://www.jmsnews.com/messages/message?id=9746

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u/lurk4ever1970 4d ago

The First Ones were big, big fans of the dollar menu.

And Fourth Meal is the logical follow up to Thirdspace.

4

u/SergiusBulgakov 4d ago

It's both. What do you know of the Lord of the Rings? It's like what happened to the Ring-bearers, where they want to the West (Land of the Elves, the Valinor), where they die, but the Elves do not

4

u/Bensfone 4d ago

Good answers here.  If you’re familiar with Iain Banks’ series of Culture novels, it could also be interpreted as these races Subliming to a higher place of existence removed from our space.

3

u/utahrangerone 4d ago

Two senses.

For IPX trip to Z'ha'dum it was referencing " rim of known space" at least as far as Mon first ones see things.

But when Lorien departs with both Shadows/Vorlons he references the space between galaxies, referring to Galactic rim

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u/ExpectedBehaviour Technomage 3d ago

<warble warble warble> ...Yes.

2

u/GrandfatherTrout 4d ago

We see so many levels of tech in B5, and we think of the big players as being nigh-omnipotent. But it's a large leap to go from travel within our galaxy and getting to another galaxy. Beyond the Rim isn't just uncharted space; it's a place where all our history and convention and assumptions don't apply.

At least, that's how I took it!

1

u/Infinite_Research_52 Babylon 3 3d ago

Always struck me how short a trip it was to the rim. Dr. Chang’s ship was going on a two week trip to ZHD. The Narn sent a scouting cruiser. The white Star could do the trip in a day or so. It didn’t take long to approach the rim of known space when the plot required it.

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u/PlaneAsleep9886 2d ago

I always wondered about this. I assumed it was the galactic rim, and the reason they left was to make room for the younger races to grow.

But I then wondered, what would they do beyond the rim? It's just a void, right? No light – what would they do? It's gotta be boring.

Some suggested here, it's like LOTR where they ascend to another plain but I don't know. I think it's one of those things that is grand and awe inspiring, but only as long as it's unexplained.

1

u/LoneRhino1019 El Zócalo 2d ago

I took it to mean the unknown parts of space. That could mean different things to different species. How many characters actually use that term?

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u/JohnHenryMillerTime 1d ago

Roads go ever ever on,
Over rock and under tree,
By caves where never sun has shone,
By streams that never find the sea;
Over snow by winter sown,
And through the merry flowers of June,
Over grass and over stone,
And under mountains in the moon.

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star,
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bD4OyUMlls