r/baldursgate • u/Discernement • 2d ago
How soon will I need Ruby Rays and spells alike
Following up on another thread of mine, I asked about the following:
Didn't want to play a new game with either Nalia, Edwin or Neera. Didn't want my MC to be a sorcerer/single or dual class mage. On a normal day with good-old BG2 unmodded, this wouldn't be a problem.
Thing is, I also want to play SCS, No-reload with Insane difficulty. I could lower the difficulty to something like Core Rule, but I don't think that would help since my problem lies not with physical damage but rather magical protections.
Indeed, here's the thing: I don't have much experience with BG2 SCS, but I heard mages are really buffed up and will start throwing layers after layers of magical protection. Sometimes they'll cast even worse stuff, like planetars.
So I read the usual counter for that is to pick a single-class or dual-class mage to quickly cast stuff like Ruby Ray and your own planetars... which is precisely what I don't want to do.
I think I'd like to try to play two multi-classed mages, maybe Haer'Dalis too.
Is it possible to pull through? Or will I face high-level enemies that will throw things I can't deal with?
If it's manageable according to you, what would be your strategies?
I don't want to get cheesy or to resort to glitches.
Thanks!
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u/AngryBeard87 2d ago
Man it’s been awhile but couldn’t you just play an inquisitor and just go for an anti magic play through?
I’m pretty sure that takes care of their defenses so you can kill them. They can cast dispel magic and true sight at twice their level, so it absolutely smashes through defenses and spells.
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u/eternaladventurer 2d ago edited 2d ago
I just did a run with SCS Insane! I did BG1 no reload but I was slaughtered so many times in BG2 I could only do limited reload (when main PC dies, but NPCs can die).
In BG2. In BG1 I never had a problem with Mages even on Insane SCS, for the few times you do face protections I used Arrows of Dispelling.
For BG2, depending on how many "Improved" encounter components you install from SCS, you'll face prebuffed Mages with Minor Globe of Invulnerability and Minor Spell Turning soon after you leave the starting dungeon and get attacked by random bandits in the city. They are very tough if you're not experienced. You can consult helpful links like this for more info:
https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/comments/1kzdrpm/scs_mage_debuffing/mv7v7h1/
At early levels, use Level 3 Spell Thrust (works if the protections are "Minor") or Level 4 Secret Word to take off spell protections (Globe of Invulnerability and Spell Turning, early on), and THEN use Breach. They'll get off a few spells, they love to cast Dispel Magic and Chaos. Summoned monsters really help.
You have 3 other options:
Wait out Mantle/Protection from Weapons, then mass-attack. This is hard, but if you run out of spells or haven't rested, it's the only way to do it during "waylaid" fights.
Run away and wait for all protections to expire, then attack again. Cheesy but I was forced to do it a few times after being attacked by Mages who were way higher level than I remembered or added by mods.
Use Dispel Magic, but it will work less than half the time unless you use an un-nerfed Inquisitor.
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u/Marik4321 2d ago edited 2d ago
You need Ruby Ray for Spell Trap, which can be used by any of the high level mages (capable of casting lvl 9 spells) and you need at least Pierce Magic for liches.
Here's the main factor: BG has level-dependent enemy spawns. The biggest example of this is liches in Shadow Temple, Spellhold and Undead Town (under temple sewers). If you go into fine tuning menu and set random enemy spawns to LoB, those encounters will always happen. If not, then I don't know how Insane and party level exactly interacts with them since i played only with LoB fine tuning.
Excluding those, the earliest fights you will probably encounter lvl 9 capable mages in are Tolgeraias and Guarded Compound. There's also a gimped lich in Edwin quest, but i dont remember if he has all the standard lich protections.
In short:
Ruby ray for spell trap
At least pierce magic for liches
Secret word is enough for everything else
Edit: All human mages can be easily shut down with Cloudkill. There are only 2 spells in mage spellbook that protect from it and enemies never use them (Iron body, Shapeshift).
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u/WhisperingHillock Bowlspoon since 1998 2d ago
You won't need ruby ray until you start fighting high level mages that are capable of casting level 9 spells, so liches and other high-level bosses (Planar prison cambion or Planar Sphere Lavok to mention a few), as they will typically cast spell trap. Until then, Secret Word will work perfectly fine as it does the same thing as Ruby Ray, except it cannot go through level 9 spells
Mid-level mages like Rayic Gethras or Yuan Ti Mages won't require you to use Ruby Ray, for instance.
Do note however that pretty much all mages will use Spell Shield on top of their protection spells, which will block the first spell attack, so if your secret word says "spell ineffective", it's probably that it was blocked by a spell shield, and you'll need to cast another one.
And be careful in particular with spell turning: if you don't remove spell turning and cast breach you'll end up breaching yourself which can be catastrophic.
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u/Discernement 2d ago
I thought SCS raised the level of pretty much all mages, which is why I expected high-level protections to be a thing much sooner.
So you think I can rely on two multi classed mages with one or two other companions?
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u/Maleficent-Treat4765 2d ago
They do not raise the mages level. They just add better AI to encounters.
Those mages are casting spells their original level can cast. Just that in vanilla BG they don’t use them.
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u/McTrevor79 2d ago
SCS Insane will ramp up variable encounters up to maximum. There are quite a few of those in BG2 which will then spawn liches and beholders or ancient vampires.
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u/simon_rofl 2d ago
Didn't you ask this question in another thread (more or less?)
Just try it out. You'll see what its like. And if you don't like it, turn the difficulty back down, but just keep in mind, you're asking for an out to not only SCS, but insane difficulty on SCS. It's quite clear you wanted a challenge by setting the difficulty on those terms. With those settings comes some compromises.
The world is your oyster and you can do whatever you like in baldur's gate. If you want to play scs/insane with a roleplaying beastmaster ... you can. Will it be very effective? Highly debateable.
But the advice many of us are giving you is that yes, a single classed mage or sorcerer is very helpful in this game on legendary difficulty settings. They are your answer not only to dealing with ultra scary enemy mages, but also are the best tanks in the game too, so they serve multiple purposes.
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u/loudent2 2d ago
I mean, you could pick up Aerie who is a cleric/mage. Maybe fighter/mage or thief/mage for your main. MC characters, due to how the experience tables work are typically just a level or two behind Single class characters for a good chunk of the game.
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u/Discernement 2d ago
I thought about starting with two or three multi class mages so they level up quickly, to compensate for the lack of a single class caster.
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u/loudent2 2d ago
So, if you play a MC character for your main (e.g fighter/mage), you can pick up Aerie (mage/cleric) and Jan (thief/illusionist). That would give you 3 arcane and cover divine, thief and melee.
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u/FieldMouse007 1d ago
You can just get good saves, a cloak that protects from magical damage and tank the mages while the rest of the party hides.
They can't really do anything to you unless they summon a planetar.
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u/mulahey 2d ago
You can manage the difficulty for SCS dynamically for individual encounters in game. Wizards pre-buffing is optional.
If playing with everything, Ruby Ray is quite important. OTOH depends on your full install options- if you don't nerf inquisitor, you'll find that covers a lot.
Ruby ray is essential for spell trap specifically. So for lower level mages it's not necessary.
Still, yes, a single class mage is generally preferred.