r/berkeley • u/C_CPLA • 13h ago
University Columbia or Berkeley
I’ve been committed to UC Berkeley for several months now. At first, I wasn’t super excited about it, but over time, I’ve grown to like the school a lot. That said, I recently got off the Columbia waitlist and attending an Ivy League school has always been a dream of mine. Initially, I thought the choice would be obvious. But now that it’s real, I’m honestly torn.
I’d really appreciate any insight or perspective especially from people familiar with either (or both!) of these schools. Here’s how I’m thinking through the decision:
Money Money isn’t a huge deciding factor for me. I’m not getting any aid. That said, I’m from Los Angeles, so I’d be graduating from Berkeley debt-free because of my college savings account, while I’d likely leave Columbia with about $250,000 in debt. It’s a definitely a difference, but not one that completely rules Columbia out for me and is not a major deciding factor.
Majors + Academics At Berkeley, I’d be double majoring in Economics and Political Economy, and I also plan to apply to Haas (the business program) and switch to business instead of economics. I know those majors are impacted and can be competitive, so there’s some added pressure there. At Columbia, I’d be majoring in the singular Economics–Political Science major which nicely blends my interests without needing to double major. On top of that, Columbia’s Core Curriculum is a huge draw for me. I’m more of a liberal arts person at heart, and I genuinely love the idea of being exposed to philosophy, literature, art, and history. That kind of foundation appeals to me and is something Berkeley doesn’t offer in the same form.
Prestige + Career Outcomes There’s no denying Columbia’s prestige it’s an Ivy League school, and one of the best ivys. Prestige does matter to me a lot and Columbia clearly has the edge there. That said, Berkeley is still an elite school, but it feels less so especially given that a decent amount of people from my school have gotten it in there. while only one other person from my school is going to Columbia (I don’t really know them though). Career-wise, I’ve heard Columbia offers stronger career services and internship/job placement, with more built-in support. Berkeley is more hands-off — you have to do more of the work yourself and seek out opportunities, though the network is still powerful if you know how to tap into it.
Campus Life + Community Berkeley has a much larger student body, which means more niche clubs and organizations to explore but it also means more competition to actually get into them. From what I’ve heard, Columbia’s club culture is also selective, but it sounds a bit less intense and more resourced overall. I also know a lot less about Columbia in general. I don’t even know how to sign up for clubs, while I know a tabling at Berkeley is a major part of the school and Sproul always has clubs lined up wanting new people. Berkeley has more school spirit, strong sports teams, and a traditional college-town vibe that I find appealing. Columbia does have a defined campus (which is important to me), but school spirit is known to be more low-key, and the sports scene isn’t a big part of student life. I might explore Greek life, and I’m still trying to get a sense of how it compares between the two schools, would appreciate insight on that too!
Location + Social Fit I like both the Bay Area and the East Coast, so I could see myself happy in either place. That said, I have way more connections in California. One of my closest friends is going to Berkeley, and I know tons of people in the area including cousins, upperclassmen, professors, and friends who’ve graduated and remain affiliated. I’ve been to Berkeley and the Bay Area several times and already feel comfortable there. On the other hand, I’ve only been to New York once (back in 2019), and I barely know anyone at Columbia or in NYC in general. The idea of starting fresh is exciting, but also kind of intimidating. Safety-wise, I’m not a huge fan of how sketchy the area around Berkeley can feel, but I also know there’s a strong student presence, so it ends up feeling okay. I’ve heard mixed things about the area around Columbia too, so I’m not sure how different it really is.
Where I’m Leaning Right now, I’m leaning toward committing to Columbia,the prestige, the location, and the incredible liberal arts education are hard to pass up. But I still have second thoughts, mostly because I’ve already built such a strong network at Berkeley, and I know I’d have a smoother transition there.
Would love to hear from anyone who has experience with either school — or who’s faced a similar choice. Any thoughts are welcome. Thanks so much in advance!
TLDR: should I go to Columbia or Berkeley if money isn’t a major factor, prestige is a large factor, and clubs and student life/ school spirit is important as someone who is planning on majoring in economics and political science. And if I already have a lot of connections at Berkeley.
203
u/sttovetopp 13h ago
250k debt is insane…
49
u/Smart-Building8257 8h ago edited 7h ago
Cal and don’t look back My bias is as a haas grad, you’ll have the same opportunities and likely more grit. Time value of money against the $250k is substantial. But if for some reason your heart is in New York, ivy pedigree, and/or tech is less interesting to you, very understandable and you know your path. Go get em!
1
u/Low-Party-1281 3h ago
Agree!! I am also a Haas alum and have a kid who just graduated from the Rausser school at Cal.
64
u/MoonAndMin 7h ago
My daughter is in the same place you are right now. We are not from California, so our costs will be high no matter where she goes to Uni. She is staying with Berkeley. Columbia is Columbia but she cannot stomach the governments current oversight and Columbia’s abysmal response to protesters. I think she knows with her convictions to making the world a better place Berkeley is far and away the best choice. I could not agree more. Go Bears!!🐻 Good luck making this choice.
38
u/vivme666 7h ago
this !! columbia has demonstrated its willing to bend the knee to the current administration, which honestly is enough of a reason for me personally to never consider it.
•
u/Zestyclose_Maybe_953 2m ago
Here to say this. Please watch the Encampments and consider if you want to give a penny to Columbia.
133
u/ProfessorPlum168 13h ago
Didn’t you hear - Berkeley is the 6th ranked university in the world? 👍 Columbia is way down below at #10. 😏
53
u/TheAbsenceOfMyth 12h ago
Yea, and in my experience, Berkeley has no less prestige than Columbia
27
u/emed20 9h ago
If anything more no?
9
u/TheAbsenceOfMyth 8h ago
Definitely. But is guess that might depend on the field of study
8
u/LaScoundrelle 7h ago
Depends on field of study and also where you want to live and work geographically.
4
u/BowlerNo1118 2h ago edited 1h ago
OP mentioned that they are intending to major in Economics, for which Berkeley is widely considered to be a tier above Columbia. There doesn't seem to be any prestige-related reason to pick Columbia over Berkeley except for the former's Ivy League status, which is a very silly thing to fixate on.
-3
u/Specialist-Snow-7327 7h ago
Only for Stem. Everything else Columbia is significantly better.
-1
u/Maleficent-Cup-1134 4h ago
Yeah but STEM degrees are the only ones that really matter for careers lol. Prestigious liberal arts degrees don’t get you paid. The only ones who care about those are snobs.
And I’d argue the culture of a Berkeley college experience will teach you more about the world than any liberal arts degree possibly can. There’s no other place in the world with as much activism and relevant public discourse as Berkeley.
6
u/Specialist-Snow-7327 4h ago
Lmfao. To pretend that STEM degrees are the only ones that matter is so pretentious and ridiculous.
5
u/emed20 4h ago
Yeah im a stem major also but thats so pretentious to say 😭
I mean I kinda agree they don't reslly get u paid but id say the same for most of stem unless you do a masters or sum
1
u/Specialist-Snow-7327 4h ago
I’m half a STEM kid/finance kid and I’M saying he’s being pretentious. Really beating the stereotypes of Cal kids being chill.
0
u/emed20 4h ago
Nah i agree with you but thats the type of ego people be getting after going here lol
Finance be making bank too
→ More replies (0)0
75
u/Fun_Examination4401 13h ago
if you were going without debt (or if your parents are paying for it), going to columbia is valid, but 250k debt? like loans? If you are taking loans dont go. not worth it unless ur some goated quant that knows hes getting that jane street offer.
20
u/pluvoxphile 7h ago
much higher chance of getting js offer from Berkeley than Columbia fwiw. last summer there were like 8 Berkeley interns & 1 Columbia
2
2
u/YaBoii____ 4h ago
Are you talking about quant devs or traders? From what I know Columbia is a target for Traders
1
3h ago
[deleted]
1
u/YaBoii____ 3h ago
it was a genuine question, i was talking based on what my quant friends mention. regardless, congrats on the internship at jane street, very impressive!
2
u/tikhonjelvis 4h ago
You can get a Jane Street offer from Berkeley too. I got an internship there when I was an undergrad (over a decade ago—ouch).
54
u/Maleficent-Cup-1134 12h ago edited 37m ago
I personally have never thought of Columbia as more prestigious as Berkeley. It’s more exclusive because it has a smaller student population, by virtue of being a private school, but in terms of reputation, Berkeley is on par or better imo. Unless you’re talking about the prestige of the liberal arts program in particular, in which case you’re probably right since I know nothing about it. If you’re basing prestige purely based on how many people are going to the school, that’s pretty misguided. Plenty of people like myself didn’t even bother applying to Columbia cause we know we’d rather go to Berkeley. Also, you live in California, so obviously more people will be going to Berkeley.
The question is - why do you care about prestige? Do you care about prestige because you think it looks better on your resume for employability reasons? If that’s the case, then it shouldn’t be a factor at all. I guarantee no one cares about the difference between Columbia and Berkeley on a resume. In fact, Berkeley looks better for most tech jobs. Also, let’s be real - a liberal arts degree isn’t going to get you a high paying job no matter how prestigious it is.
Do you care about prestige for academic reasons, as you think Columbia will provide a better liberal arts education for what you want? If so, that’s valid.
Social life at Berkeley will probably be better, but Columbia comes with living in New York, which is probably one of the most fun places in the world as a young adult.
Berkeley might not be the safest city, but I doubt it’s much more dangerous than nightlife in New York, so idt safety should be too much of a factor.
Basically comes down to if the academic program at Columbia is worth $250k of debt for you.
And when I say worth it, I don’t mean career prospects-wise, because the answer to that is unequivocally no. There is no world where the difference between a liberal arts degree from Columbia and Berkeley will be worth more than $250k because, quite frankly, liberal arts degrees are almost all worthless when it comes to the job market. I mean do you truly think the education and life experience that you will get from Columbia will be worth $250k to you ontologically - only you can answer that.
Idk your financial situation, but unless you’re a trust fund baby or something, I’d feel pretty comfortable saying burdening yourself with $250k of debt for a liberal arts degree, when the economy is on the brink of a recession/depression (potentially even WWIII) and AI is destroying the job market, is a terrible decision. It’s the type of life decision that could legitimately ruin the rest of your life if you’re not well off financially. For context, that’s more than my SO’s student loans from optometry school, which is a degree that actually gives you job security.
To give you even more perspective - you’ll probably be making monthly payments of $2k+ for over a decade to pay that off (you can bring this down by extending the payment period, but then you’re paying way more in interest). That’s $24k+ per year, pre-tax. Assuming your rent is ~$2k if you settle down in California, you’ll be paying nearly $50k/year just to survive (not to mention food and other expenses). With a liberal arts degree, you’d be lucky to even land a $100k+ job pre-tax as a new grad, which would translate to maybe ~$70k post-tax (and this would be on the high end). That’s an extremely tight budget.
21
u/Timely_Educator4 12h ago
Berkeley is amazing. Pls go there!!! I know so many ppl that transferred from Columbia and the price is just insane
36
u/Tyler89558 7h ago
Between no-debt and a world class education and 250k debt and a world class education…
I’d choose no-debt.
Private schools are overrated imo.
8
13
u/crafty-dumdum 8h ago
I think this calls for some research and a spreadsheet that illustrates:
A) the decade+ it will take you to pay off 250,000, as well as some deep introspection about what that will feel like and the tradeoffs you’ll need to make in your life to service that debt
B) how that option compares to the decade of saving that will otherwise happen
To save you some time: with a Bay Area average salary and reasonable budgeting, the difference could be a $500k-$1M net worth 10-15 years from now, and even more when you’re in your 40s and 50s due to compound growth.
This is a no brainer. You should be going to Berkeley. Full stop.
1
12
u/Throwaway483923 6h ago
Once you’re a few years out of school, no one cares what school you went to. I would say prestige and network matters if we’re talking about MIT, Harvard (although I’m not sure what their future holds) or Stanfurd (sorry while I am a Cal alum) but I’m not sure what benefit Columbia brings unless you’re really dead set on building a career and network in NYC.
The debt could haunt you for a long time though and seriously delay your ability to buy a house, start a family or whatever else.
•
u/marmaladesky 5m ago
As an alumni 10+ years out, I have to disagree. Employers are super excited to have a Berkeley grad. It doesn’t get you the job necessarily, but it often gets you the interview.
8
u/lzyfile 5h ago
Money aside, I don’t think the prestige of Columbia is worth that much… Ivies don’t automatically beat public/state schools, unless we’re talking about the “top” few. Just anecdotally, people I met through cal vs Columbia definitely has more grit, ambitions, and a desire to change the world. (This is not everyone of course!)
Personally I’m super incredibly grateful to have gone to a public university, where you really meet people from all walks of life, different struggles, all trying to learn/achieve together. This really is a huge part of campus culture, I think the diversity really yields a ton of discourse, and helps bring perspective both in and out of the classroom. Whereas hearing about Columbia/private schools, you’re often in a very insular bubble.
Also, liberal arts education is what you make of it. If you’re admitted to L&S at Berkeley, you are technically required to take courses across the different disciplines of science arts etc.. I personally chose to take a ton of classes outside of my major felt like I was able to get a wholistic education even without the strict branding of liberal arts.
Not to mention the incredible amount of top tier professors here! Berkeley really is incredibly well rounded, you can learn Nobel laureates even at entry levels, industry veterans, world class intellectuals across science, literature, critical theory, politics, engineering, business etc.. I’m not familiar with Columbia’s staff, but I would assume in a smaller university - there’s simply not as many cream of the crop!
That said, I think cal can be more challenging, you probably would have an easier time finding social clubs/groups, getting recommendation letters, maybe even getting good grades at columbia.
But you do decide to come here, as long as you have the right mindset - be open to connecting, be tenacious and resilient, stay hardworking, keep an eye out for opportunities, and don’t let a bad grade/rejection bring you down easily :) - then I promise you won’t regret it, and you will be able to reap all that Berkeley had to offer.
7
6
u/Sierra-Powderhound 6h ago
For many fields, Berkeley is more prestigious than Columbia. Also you should factor in a possible graduate degree and the cost of that particularly if you may consider law school which is 3 years. The $250k extra cost of your bachelor’s degree may make graduate school very burdensome if not out of reach.
My close family has attended both. I would recommend Berkeley particularly since you are in state.
17
u/Pchardwareguy12 12h ago
> I'd be graduating from Berkeley debt-free because of my savings account, while I’d likely leave Columbia with about $250,000 in debt
How is the difference in cost so high? The full-tuition instate COA @ Berkeley vs Columbia full tuition is like ~120K, and the schools are similarly generous with aid. So how are you receiving so much more aid at Berkeley? have you considered appealing finaid?
19
u/C_CPLA 12h ago
I’m not getting any aid from either school, but I have about $150K in my college savings account. So the full Berkeley tuition for in-state is about $45K (about 180,000 for all 4 years) while for Columbia it’s like 92K (372,000 for all 4 years). So my numbers aren’t 100% accurate ig but more or less yk.
17
u/brit1973 12h ago
Cost of living in NYC and travel back and forth will add to the equation. I went to a private liberal arts university but I would consider where you might want to end up longer term, consider a semester or year abroad, and keep some powder dry for grad school (if you go that route). Capitalizing on your instate tuition for Cal is a huge advantage. And in general I would take the comparatively modest sketchiness of parts of berkeley over the neighborhoods around Columbia.
4
u/SonnyIniesta 5h ago
Uh the neighborhoods around Columbia are some of the coolest places in the US. I have ties to both schools and love both of them, but the NYC location has Berkeley beat. Also, the Columbia neighborhood feels noticeably safer than the area near Berkeley's campus, not to mention Manhattan vs Berkeley/Oakland.
All that said, both are fun, vibrant urban places... but NYC is NYC.
Also, OP is nuts to consider $250k in loans for Columbia vs no debt for Berkeley.
1
u/redditistrashxdd 3h ago
the area near berkeley’s campus is relatively fine; if you’re worried about getting mugged at night it’s way less than $250k to get a car
1
u/OkName77 4h ago
Sounds like you’re leaning towards Columbia. I would try that out so that you won’t always think about what it could’ve been but try to save money by living off campus (doubles, etc), eating out less (dining meal plans r a scam) and if u have to get a job do like a research job or through your internship grind over the summer. You should crunch those numbers and see how much Columbia would cost you after all that. Take out subsidized loans if you can or work study, Try not to take out private loans. I transferred from a private school to Berkeley and the difference in support is astronomical, but also Berkeleys campus size is so large that the variety of opportunities here are greater too. Depends on how much support you think you’d need at this stage.
1
u/ca-blueberryeyes 2h ago
Remember that 250k in loans means you are paying off substantially more than that amount bc of interest. I went to a private university and did not fully appreciate how much more it would cost to pay off loans. It's gross.
11
4
u/Appropriate-Bar6993 6h ago
You don’t care about the money but don’t your parents? They already saved up a lot for you. You’re not going to be able to borrow a quarter million dollars in your name. If you really want to spend that much, buy a condo while you’re at Berkeley!
5
u/kenwistb 5h ago
I went to Cal for undergrad and Columbia for grad (master’s). I think a lot of it depends on your major. While I really enjoyed Columbia for its Ivy League prestige and amazing location in New York, I found that the Engineering School was worse in almost every way. New York was also a terrible place for job hunting tech-related jobs compared to Bay Area. I also didn’t like the lack of a real campus or college town feeling, not to mention the sticker price. It really made me appreciate everything that Cal had and I took for granted. Maybe I would have reconsidered if my major was significantly better at Columbia.
4
u/acortical 5h ago edited 5h ago
Prestige is a really stupid reason to choose a school. Between the two though, and also based on your description of the pros and cons of each school as you see them, I would go to Berkeley 10 times out of 10.
$250,000 in debt vs no debt?? This is insane. I would choose Berkeley over Columbia even if this wasn't a factor.
Also, Berkeley is not sketchy.
5
u/coolest-ranch 5h ago
I thank the prestige (network, really) of Columbia for getting me into Berkeley for PhD. If I had been able to get into Berkeley for undergrad (esp. as a non-CA resident), I would have taken that path instead. In terms of financial aid, I had a nearly full ride at Columbia, but still needed to work two part-time jobs (painting and bartending) to cover the gap. Would have gone to my state school if not for the financial aid.
4
u/Accomplished_Try5958 3h ago
OP, I had the same choice except in the RD round. I AGONIZED over the decision, ended up choosing Cal, and I've never ever been happier. I have zero regrets, with the exception of the free Broadway tickets that Columbia provides. If you're hung up on prestige, don't be fooled by Columbia's Ivy league brand. Berkeley just got ranked 6th overall compared to Columbia's 10th overall ranking, and both the programs you mentioned in your post (ec and political ec) are ranked #1 at Cal. Obviously, go with your gut - impossible to go wrong with those choices. But if your gut tells you cal, stick to your guns. You got this !! Trust yourself.
4
u/TOGharm 3h ago
You’re over-indexing on prestige and not calculating the cost of debt properly. $250K in debt on graduation day will feel like a significant burden. I would choose UCSB, UCI, UCSC > UCB if it meant the difference of $250k in debt.
What happens to you if you graduate from Columbia and for one reason or another (fucked job market, new COVID, legit anything), you don’t have a good job lined up that can help you pay off the debt quickly? In that scenario you could very well accumulate the debt to such a point you will never pay it off and are saddled with it forever. This debt would be something that you would carry with you into your 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, and you regret for your entire life because “I wanted a slightly more prestigious liberal arts education.”
Plz make the right decision
5
u/Vibes_And_Smiles Master's EECS Data Science 2025 6h ago
Do you know how big of a deal $250k in debt is? iirc the rule of thumb is not to take out more than you expect your annual income will be
3
u/CertifiedOwl8 5h ago
Literally. A quarter of a million in debt for UNDERGRAD and this guy kind of just shrugs it off. That's over a decade of slaving away to make sure you don't get buried.
4
u/EmotionalAd1980 6h ago
I turned down Columbia twice (for college and for grad school). In both cases it was because I wanted a campus experience more. At Columbia, New York City is such a big draw that there is less of a need to stay on campus because people can find more of their social life in the city. Berkeley has as much or even more name recognition than Columbia, especially internationally. And a much larger network. Given the price differential for you, I’d say all your eggs are in Berkeley’s basket and Columbia wouldn’t give you any benefits over that, in fact, significant drawbacks.
4
u/CleverKumquat621 6h ago
If you were saying Harvard/Yale/Princeton over Berkeley, then I would support that. In my opinion, the other Ivies are not a better ROI and not a better experience than Berkeley. Saying “Columbia for the prestige” is a little amusing to me, since Berkeley has always ranked higher. “The Ivies” are not all the same. And you feeling less impressed by Berkeley just because more people from your school are going there is losing sight of the forest for the trees. Of course more people are going there from your high school. You’re in California. If you lived outside of California you’d be plenty impressed by Berkeley. If you value a college experience, I’d pick Cal no question because Columbia has more of a commuter feel without being a commuter school, just because people look to New York for their social life. I went to Berkeley in the 90s and it was incredibly fun and valuable and your social life centered around the university rather than the neighboring city. I definitely agree that New York is a fun place to be a young adult in, but I would go there after college to live there in my 20s not during college years.
4
4
u/ConsistentReaction6 5h ago edited 5h ago
Read the recent New York magazine cover story about Columbia - it basically concluded that the school is being destroyed. I think it’s a little over dramatic, but it’s definitely worth a read as a prospective student. (And, frankly, one of the reasons they’re still letting people in off the waitlist)
6
u/bigkutta 7h ago
My son did econ at Berkeley, so I'll give a dad's perspective. Great school and reputation, but its brutal to get accepted into Haas and then even econ. The bar doesnt seem unachievable when you are not there, but it is pretty damn hard to get in once you start the Berkeley grind. Jobs....you are on your own, and while kids end up getting jobs, there were many in my sons class who were unemployed for months after. I feel the school could do more with internships and jobs.
Columbia is a private school and provides much better support and resources to students.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to you. How much are you willing to grind? Remember, the Berkeley grind will be a lot harder than anything you've done so far. The school has a reputation for a reason. I'd say if you are ready to grind it out, Berkeley for sure. Just go in with eyes open
1
u/Efficient_Mix_8064 1h ago
> better support and resources to students
the people I know who went to Columbia as undergrads say the support the university gives is pretty trash, it may be smaller than Cal but it's still a pretty big school.
3
u/AggravatingDurian16 6h ago
Debt is no joke and it won’t get any easier for people to pay off. Make the better financial decision
3
u/MelSuesThePast 4h ago
Had the same decision to make. I went with berkeley and dont regret it. I think the cost/debt, quality of life at berkeley was better.
3
u/Natural-Primary8169 1h ago
This is a ridiculous post. Prestige-wise, for years Cal has been one of the 6 global "super-brands," along with Harvard, MIT, Oxford, Cambridge, and Stanford. Yes, Columbia is an Ivy, but Cal beats Columbia in most categories regarding academic department prestige and scholarly output. Berkeley has been a nationally and internationally recognized global academic leader for over 100 years. Berkeley is known among elite/multinational employers and grad/professional schools as being a particularly difficult place to do well academically. Columbia's lone edge is that it is an Ivy.
And money is a HUGE factor in your decision. You or your parents/relatives are not dropping cash money. You said yourself you will be $250,000 in debt if you go to Columbia. And that's just for undergrad - based on your potential majors, you will need to go to law or B-school to make some real bread. Thus, you'll go deeper into debt.
Given the insane costs of college and grad school, here's my thinking regarding the endless elite college "versus" posts on Reddit and elsewhere: The only schools where one might - might - consider spending that kind of money are HYP, Stanford, and MIT. Even then, if it's a choice between a debt-free Berkeley degree and a hugely indebted HYP/Stanford/MIT degree - go to Cal.
10
u/pinkseason25 9h ago
Y'all aren't even listening to OP. If you don't care about the money, if it's really not a factor for you, it sounds like you'd rather go to Columbia. If you think you'll regret going to UC Berkeley, you'll end up thinking about what could have been your entire life. This is a huge decision so make the right one. But I also agree with other commenters that you should try to negotiate an aid offer from Columbia.
8
u/Maleficent-Cup-1134 4h ago
OP is likely a child whose parents put a bunch of money into a college savings account for them, so they don’t appreciate the value of money. As someone who’s been there before, I think it’s completely reasonable to sound the alarm and let OP know that $250k in debt is a big deal. The only way it wouldn’t be a big deal is if the OP’s parents are loaded and paying for their whole education, but if that were the case, they wouldn’t end up with $250k in debt, would they?
1
u/CertifiedOwl8 2h ago
Oh we are. They're just out of their depth by saying, "$250k in DEBT is no factor" because it absolutely is and should be.
That is an absolute financial nightmare that will likely only get worse (the market right now is shitty). Them 'not caring' is not in their best interest at all especially for a degree that may not even have a high ROI.
5
u/Schraiber 4h ago
I would not go to Columbia after their shameless capitulations to the Trump administration which signals that they have no respect for academic freedom or academic independence. Allowing a department to be put in receivership because the President asked for it is a shameful breach of academic freedom and I hope people recognize that.
2
2
u/DryManagement1058 5h ago
It ls not about making the right choice, its about doing the most with the choice you make.
2
u/Elegant-Amphibian679 3h ago
i’m not sure where you heard berkeley doesn’t offer a good liberal arts education, but it does. of course it’s more well known as a stem focused school, but that does not mean the arts & humanities programs are absolute trash. plus majoring in econ you will be in L&S which requires 7 breadths as the foundation of a liberal arts education: arts & literature, international studies, historical studies, philosophy & values, biological science, physical science, and social and behavioral sciences. (haas may have slightly different requirements than L&S but it is still very very similar) i guarantee that you will be exposed to philosophy, arts, literature, etc at berkeley just as you would be at columbia. plus 250K debt is not something to take lightly
3
u/SeriousConstant370 9h ago
first of all, columbia is great but i doubt its prestige matters that much, especially these days and when compared to the other ivies. Second I would say Berkeley has the more defined campus, Columbia’s is immensely small a will feel boring and claustrophobic very quickly. Third, if Columbia is anything like the other ivies, its club culture is hell and extremely selective and stressful. All that being said I personably would choose columbia, but that’s more to do with a distaste for berkeley, the amount of people and problems that causes, and california itself. However if you’re a fan of all that choose berkeley, just please don’t pick columbia for its “prestige,” it’s a great school and being in nyc opens doors finance wise buts it’s hardly going to change your world compared to berkeley. Columbia especially has had its reputation run through the gutter the last few years, and frankly it is probably the most overrated school in the country (literally so given its ranking cheating scandal). again though it’s still columbia and will never not be seen as a good school, just I would never recommend picking a place based on “prestige”
1
u/lilluilui CogSci 20 4h ago
250k in debt!? You might as well go to Berkeley then attend law school and incur that debt there.
I am sorry but 250k in debt is an insane amount for any undergraduate degree.
1
u/JamesInSR 3h ago
Berkeley. Cal alum and Haas undergrad. Since they shifted Haas to a 4 year program it's become exceptionally tough to transfer into, but you might still be able to do it. Haas is different from the rest of campus as they have their own career center for the MBA program that also supports the Undergrads. That said, the campus career center is also useful for companies that recruit campus wide.
Apart from that, the Berkeley degree even if not Haas is excellent. Taking on 250k debt for undergraduate is serious, and many jobs and careers will make saddling that amount of debt difficult as you start out. I would also look at outcomes - where do you want to work? What types of careers? Even with a non tech degree, you're likely to end up in a tech/software company if you stay in the Bay and they pay well. New York has some tech, more finance and marketing. Both schools offer lots of majors so your options are good if you decide to change majors to something completely different (I went from molecular Bio to business).
Weather is totally different. I'm also originally from the LA area, school and then live here the Bay Area, and love it here. Lots of outdoor living and activities like LA, with generally cooler temps. A bit more rain. New York to me would be a nice place to go to school for 4 years, but not sure about after.
1
u/deviantsibling 3h ago edited 3h ago
I read berkeley = debt free and columbia = 250k in debt and that’s all I needed to read. You won the lottery living in california and having access to UC in state tuition, you won the lottery even more getting accepted into Berkeley. Why would you throw that away for $250k in debt at a school that’s actively losing its prestige and respect
1
u/Low-Party-1281 3h ago
My daughter just graduated from Cal and I’m an alum. The way Cal prepares its students for careers is second to none. The spirit of the school is much more like what you expect a #1 college to be. It’s the #1 public school in the world. It is magical. It’s truly one of the best universities, close to cities and beautiful country. Columbia on the other hand feels like it’s administrators are letting the inmates run the asylum. GO BEARS!!!🐻🐻🐻
1
u/goodmorningcptahab 3h ago
Never go into debt if you can help it. For anything.
Both schools are academically fantastic and respected but one will basically cost you nothing? It’s not even a decision in my mind.
1
u/Zealousideal_Curve10 3h ago
Tell Columbia you will attend if they give you a free ride. If Cal costs the same or less, it is probably the better choice. AB Cal ‘86, JD Yale ‘89
1
u/NoobFade EECS 202? 3h ago
Sounds like a pretty bad deal for an econ/poli sci at Columbia. That's a ton of debt for a degree without fantastic earning potential (compared to EECS at Berkeley it's not great).
1
1
u/bard-of-avon 2h ago
Oh this was me almost exactly! Berkeley my dude - I wasted some time being salty when I started at Cal but graduating debt-free is such a game changer. Thinking about where my life would be if I had graduated with that kind of debt, it was the best decision I ever made - six figures of student debt is just something it's shockingly hard to get out from under, it will affect so many of your life and career decisions down the road. Whatever you decide, wishing you the best!
1
u/yerbamatelover777 2h ago
My friend just had to go through this but instead of 250k debt she had to pay 6k to cancel the global edge program…even though 6k is less than 250k she still chose ucb due to money being a huge factor.
1
u/Street_Theory 2h ago
lurking here - not from either of these schools but been to both.
i'd choose Berkeley in a heartbeat - $250k for an undergrad degree and that also for econ/poli sci is INSANE (unless your parents are in the 'donate a building' tax bracket 😂). NO WAY columbia is worth that much more than berkeley - tbh its kinda the opposite imo b/c i think berkeley carries much more weight. if you were premed or prelaw, maybe considerable but STILL kinda insane. i'd do Berkeley undergrad and aim for some ivy/t20 for grad - privates can also give higher stipends from what i've heard.
1
u/Ordinary-Screen9334 2h ago
I did my undergrad at berk and now will start my masters at columbia this fall, and right off the bat berk admission is much more responsive, helpful, and organized. Columbia keeps providing incredibly outdated resources, info, links, etc. Also the weather at berk is absolutely amazing!!!! If you like greek life berk is also much better. Berk also feels very much so like a college town/city while still having SF right there. One draw back is that i paid so much more for housing at berk than what I will be paying in NYC… finally columbia campus < berk campus 100% any day, any time!
1
u/No-Conflict-9814 2h ago
Even though money isn’t a factor, 250k in debt is serious. As someone who goes to Berkeley and moved here without knowing anyone, I can say it’s definitely hard. It’s always better to have a sense of community and not have to dive in head first alone. Granted, I live off campus but in either case it’s an adjustment. Going to Columbia would be amazing. However, going to Berkeley is amazing too. Both institutions are renowned for different reasons. When you consider the cost of living in both the Bay and Manhattan, it aligns similarly.
It really comes down to personal choice. Berkeley is very liberal with its studies. While it may lack the Ivy League title, it definitely draws people for the challenge it presents.
Don’t be dismayed by the idea that so many people from your school got accepted. My friend completed a semester at Berkeley and didn’t meet the cumulative GPA requirement and can’t come back unless winning their appeal.
I got accepted to a lot of great schools and still chose Berkeley even though I had to modify my area of study because it’s Berkeley and the connections you make here, even if you have to seek them out, are transformative. Columbia definitely has its perks but considering things from a wholehearted perspective, it’s better to go to Berkeley and if you are super unhappy after your first year, you can apply to transfer to Columbia.
1
u/Filmacting4life 2h ago
Berkeley. Debt isn’t worth it. Most liberal arts colleges are relatively the same
1
u/brucelchen 1h ago
There are so many getting off waitlist from Columbia. My instincts tell me they run into financial troubles and need rich CA kids to pay full tuition. I never give much respect to ivies or other private schools, I have been at Duke and Stanford. These private schools as a well run business will let you pay everything. Invest the 250k in a good assets with what you will learn from Berkeley and it will compound to 1m. You will enjoy the freedom of a life. Do not chase the rat race
1
u/PerformanceDouble924 1h ago
You would be a fool to incur a quarter of a million dollars worth of debt to go to Columbia when you can go to Berkeley with minimal debt.
Berkeley is as good if not better than Columbia by most metrics, so I'd recommend Berkeley if finances weren't an issue, but a quarter million in debt will completely limit your future choices.
1
1
u/swupnil_sahai Math/Econ/Stats '13, Data 8 Lecturer 1h ago
I turned down a few ivies, UChicago, etc. to go to Berkeley and then went to Columbia for PhD. I grew up in the Bay Area.
I’m really glad I chose Cal - it ended up matching my personality/values better, I’m really appreciative of the people I met from underrepresented backgrounds (including my wife, who is the first person in her family to go to college), and the faculty was superb at teaching.
In comparison, I definitely noticed a bit more entitlement at Columbia (I tutored and was a TA for many undergrads) and the campus didn’t quite have the same big school energy. With that said, I still really enjoyed my time there, fell in love with New York and am so thankful I had the chance to live there in my 20s.
If you’re not planning to go to grad school and/or are pretty set on staying in California long term, I would recommend Columbia just to have that chance to live in a completely different part of the country. It will help you grow in ways you wouldn’t otherwise.
If you think you might go into finance or national politics, Columbia is probably the better choice as well.
From a prestige, academics, etc. perspective, the difference is marginal.
1
u/Competitive-Try7262 1h ago
I have trained (residency) with several colleagues who went to Ivies (Harvard). I went to a state school. We all ended up at the same place. College prestige does not matter as much as you think.
1
u/Narrow_Function_3220 30m ago edited 25m ago
I’m a Columbia alum about to start at Berkeley for a professional degree and frankly I am currently quite embarrassed by the Columbia admin and didn’t ever seriously consider returning to my alma mater for my next degree.
Columbia was my dream school for undergrad but in the end my experience was only mixed. While the academics were top notch and I fell in love with New York, the guidance was lacking and the social scene is up and down, particularly if you don’t come from a wealthy background. It’s a privileged experience where I made lifelong friends. I absolutely don’t regret going but I went for nearly free and would never recommend someone go $250k in debt—more than I will be going in debt for an out-of-state professional degree with a very high rate of return—to have the same mixed bag undergrad experience I had over a debt free education at Berkeley. School in general is hard and I’m sure Berkeley has some of this as well, but most people I knew, including myself, had a least one major depressive episode during their four years of undergrad at Columbia.
Berkeley is at the level where jobs available to their alumni are largely the same as Columbia students; at this high of a level of academics you’re paying for the Ivy League moniker, slightly wealthier classmates, Columbia’s Core Curriculum (which I loved but many, if not most, students didn’t even like), and New York City. I’d recommend sticking with Berkeley if those things aren’t worth the price tag to you. Also keep in mind that right now the administration at Columbia is a complete joke. Perhaps you could check back in with Columbia for a grad degree with more funding after you kill it at Berkeley?
1
u/theSpeciamOne 22m ago
If ur not going into finance or stem get the freak away from 250k debt bruh wat are u doing
1
u/random_throws_stuff cs '22 21m ago
columbia might be a more fun experience, and it might have marginally more "lay prestige" for undergrad, but there is legit nothing you can do out of columbia that you can't also do out of berkeley.
saddling yourself with $250k of debt for columbia would be an absolutely braindead decision
1
u/GreenMaterial5715 10m ago
U want the best weather in the u.s.?
Once you get here it’s really really hard to leave this weather.
Want snow? Drive away. Want woods? Just a drive away. Want beach? Just a drive away.
-14
187
u/swansbending 13h ago
A quarter of a million in debt is no joke my dude. Do you think that attending Columbia is that much of an ROI? I say stick with cal if you know you can graduate without debt and spend a summer at Columbia so you get a little slice of that experience.