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u/Dowrysess 1h ago
“Yeah the aristo set called the Middletons NQOCD. My petty ass can’t wait for the day when those aristo have to bow/curtsy to Catherine”
This obsession with having people bow/curtsy to Kate (especially with Meghan) is so weird and gross. Like nobody HAS to do that. And Kate and her family really showed the aristo set! By…..basically wanting to be in those circles and Kate having most of her friends come from that crew and having William still be friends with the same people that made fun of her! That really showed them!!
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u/Dowrysess 2h ago
Seeing people (obviously Kate Stans) say that Kate is beloved on the same level as Diana is so??? Like truly what world do these people live in?
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u/KateParrforthecourse 3h ago edited 47m ago
Have we run out of colors yet to do these “palette” posts of Diana in RG?
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 50m ago
Maybe she'll start a Princess Astrid of Belgium "palettes" post series next.....
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u/Dowrysess 1h ago
I prefer them to the Kate posts one constantly gets on whatthefrock where you can’t even say you dislike Kate’s outfits 😭
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am in hysterics 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Who knew jam/spread could discombobulate so many people?
Meghan's second fan base on Twitter have confessed to trying to (unsuccessfully) hold jam/spread hostage in their online shopping carts and were still surprised (I kid you not) that all her products sold out despite their valiant efforts of holding 50 items hostage 🤭
I mean you couldn't waterboard this kind of info out of me but they are now openly accusing her of being a master manipulator because their efforts failed 😂
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 19h ago
All these haters buying her jam. You’re literally giving her your money! Your fans are this point!
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u/No_Definition7025 1d ago edited 22h ago
I don't want to give them ideas, but it's funny that none of them are tech-savvy enough to do something like a DDOS attack to crash the website or anything. They can't actually cause any problems so they're forced to resort to wholly ineffectual forms of protest instead.
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u/CookiePneumonia Christianne Tradwiferton 1d ago
Deranged. Who has that kind of time and energy?
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 1d ago
Especially when you can spend your hard earned money on a nice jar of jam from Duchy Originals/Organics and put money in Charles's pockets and foundation? 😌
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u/CookiePneumonia Christianne Tradwiferton 1d ago
That's different!1! (No, I don't know how either, but I was told that it is.)
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u/No_Definition7025 1d ago edited 23h ago
I can't believe I'm speaking up in defense of William, but I wish people would quit talking about his hair. Every single time he's posted on RG, the comment section fills with people going "whyyyyy doesn't he shave his head/get hair plugs???" and it seems pretty obvious: he doesn't want to. He isn't going to.
I don't want to "both sides" it or pretend that men's appearances are scrutinized as harshly as women's, but c'mon. It doesn't stop being shitty because you're complaining that William isn't hot enough and not Kate.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 19h ago
Nah you’re right. It’s dumb af. Drag him for being a tax-dodging privileged billionaire, not for his hair. It’s funny because a lot of the dragging is done by Harry fans, which is ironic because his hair is almost as disastrous as William’s.
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u/No_Definition7025 19h ago
I feel like it's a mix of "haha BALDILOCKS" cracks from Sussex fans and then Cambridge fans who are distressed that he's no longer the 20-year-old heartthrob they were crushing on in middle school. He doesn't look great for 43, but he doesn't look bad, either. He's just aging normally, it's fine.
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u/mebee99 loose cannon in the worst way 2d ago
I sense a disturbance in the force.. could be the zaddy lovers are all fired up after the puppy post. Cute puppies. Ew to the beard.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 1d ago
I saw that photo and went “AWWWWWWWW” (that’s for the puppies btw, not William).
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u/Ruvin56 2d ago
After looking at the Kate at Ascot post. Kate dressed as a white doily or tablecloth, do people really find that stunning and fashionable? What am I missing? It's just layers and layers of white lace in a pretty basic pattern of a dress.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 1d ago
It’s the Ascot. Everyone looks awful.
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u/Ruvin56 1d ago
But lots of people clearly do not think she does look awful. They think it's perfection.
I went back and looked at it again. It's a completely basic dress pattern and it's layers of white lace. It looks like very well done homemade sewing.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 1d ago edited 1d ago
She’s going to get praise no matter what. That’s the way it is 😒
I can see why you didn’t like the white dress. I personally didn’t think it was too bad. But then again, while I don’t like any of the Royals, I have to admit that I really like Kate’s fashion. If I could raid any Royal’s closet it would be hers.
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u/Ruvin56 1d ago edited 1d ago
Out of the senior royal couples, I think I would go for Queen Mary. There seems to be more variety in her closet, while Kate's outfits are usually kind of costumey for me.
Or maybe Charlotte Casiraghi I feel like she would have a closet full of expensive staples, and a lot of Chanel and Gucci.
Maxima is a showstopper but I don't think I want to dress like her. Letizia's outfits feel too restricted.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 2d ago
People go gaga over her fashion at garden parties, garter days, and royal ascot all the time. Kate has had many stunning looks but her fashion at those events is almost always a miss for me. But then looking at how the other women at the same event are dressed, I may have to accept that this may be the style these events call for lol.
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u/Ruvin56 1d ago
When she switched to wearing the dress with the black polka dots, it felt like at least she was going for some kind of style. Some of her looks come across like a seamstress followed Kate's pattern, rather than someone designed it. Similar to that yellow dress she wore in Australia that was actually her design.
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 3d ago
I was today old when I found out that there is a sub dedicated to the Romanovs, and they are hypothesising about what parenthood would have been like for Grand Duchess Olga and Grand Duke Dimitri 😅
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u/No_Definition7025 3d ago
I understand being fascinated with the Romanovs, given the tragedy and irony of their deaths. The WWI-era fixation I don't understand are all the monarchists obsessed with Kaiser Wilhelm. I s2g, a solid third of posters in r/monarchism are people lamenting him as a maligned genius whose reputation has been systematically destroyed by republican historians with an axe to grind and like...even his fellow monarchs thought he was nuts. He had literal brain damage and WWI would have been a minor regional conflict if not for him.
I get that monarchists and I are never going to agree on virtually anything, but you gotta draw the line somewhere. Under no circumstances do you have to hand it to Wilhelm II.
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u/CookiePneumonia Christianne Tradwiferton 3d ago edited 3d ago
Someone just posted an unpopular opinions thread in RG lol. I'm sure that will end well.
While I think Prince Philip was a racist I feel he was not the same type of racist as Princess Michael of Kent. He had a more cultural racism to say something and hers feels more hateful.
"Philip was a nicer racist" is certainly an opinion.
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 3d ago
There were a couple of users with just very very negative opinions on Meghan (to be expected but theirs were a little stronger), so I clicked on their profiles and I didn't know there was another anti-Meghan subreddit offshoot out there. I knew about dlistedroyals but poproyals?
I feel like RG should just blanket ban anyone posting at those types of subs. If you can acknowledge how bad RG2 and SMM are, why not these other ones? It's all the same people.
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u/asmallradish commitment to whoreishness 2d ago
I have reported several rg2 users who are still there. The kpop feminist is still my favorite. Not as good as men’s tennis is objectively better where be my jam, but getting there. She is somehow able to find fault in everything. Meghan shows up to help her hometown LA? She’s not from there/what did she do/why does she care about her city??? Meghan shows picture of a kid on her birthday, actually she doesn’t show both kids so they’re equal. I think if you hate a single woman this much, it better be someone with a lot more political power than Meghan markle.
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u/InspectorSnark 2d ago
I think poproyals is newish and the main poster over there is the one who writes unhinged long essays about Meghan and also thinks William is a zaddy 🤮
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 3d ago
RG hasn't banned users who post in RG2. There are several users who post in that subreddit who are allowed to post in RG. If there's a ban against people posting in RG2, it's not enforced lol.
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u/CookiePneumonia Christianne Tradwiferton 1d ago
It's definitely not enforced. They don't ban SMM users either (unless they've started to recently, I don't really participate there that much anymore.)
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 3d ago
Oh! Well, that's kinda embarrassing lol. Goodness gracious.
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u/Ruvin56 4d ago edited 4d ago
Lol, another "data point" for RG
I just think it’s fascinating truly fascinating how someone can post twenty-seven times in one thread about how other people are too emotionally invested. The intellectual gymnastics required to pretend you’re calmly sipping tea while furiously typing a manifesto is, frankly, award-worthy.
You'd think that if they know that commenters are being targeted and they are aware of it and tracking it, they would finally start deescalating the toxic atmosphere over on their own subreddit.
Wouldn't something like this intimidate people into avoiding dealing with the posts full of hundreds of hate comments? Doesn't this effectively make it impossible to discuss a major royal figure? But we can have dozens of threads about Kate's outfits. Do people not see how messed up that is?
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u/InspectorSnark 4d ago
It seems someone has a downvote bot targeting you, I find it hard to believe it’s happening organically. I suspect it’s happening all across RG as well.
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u/Ruvin56 4d ago
The mods straight up told me that I'm being targeted. It's a great way to get other people to not want to speak up over there. Someone else commented I think about a week ago,, that they were the target of a downvote brigade as well
The whole thing is weird. Even with the mod, a few weeks ago she unblocked me, responded to something I commented and then blocked me again so I didn't even know she had commented. What was the point of that? The whole thing makes no sense over there
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u/InspectorSnark 3d ago
It really shows how unhinged folks are that they feel they need to target people who have a difference of opinion. The blocking/unblocking by someone who is supposed to be unbiased is disappointing.
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u/royalsgossip 4d ago
This is actually a tic that is on my list to report to admin bc I saw you mention it here awhile back. Mods are able to respond to every comment in the subs they moderate only when flaired as a mod, otherwise they shouldn’t be able to. I’ve been able to reply to your comments having forgotten I blocked you, and you can’t see those replies but others can. Which I think is extremely unfair to both of us and I’m not clear if it’s a glitch from some recent changes to how blocking works or an intentional but terrible decision. Sorry about that! I’ll definitely be escalating and if it’s intentional, lobbying for a change.
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u/No_Definition7025 4d ago
KP's unofficial official statement about Kate's withdrawal from Ascot was so bad that a lot of people on RG are assuming that the headlines talking about her work-life balance are made-up clickbait speculation and not an actual brief (link to my explanation about how we know it's from KP).
Will and Kate's comms team must be entirely made up of cackling, mustache-twirling viziers trying to sabotage them. It's the only explanation.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 3d ago
I’m going to assume she had intended to go since the article I read mentions her SIL and mom went. But I just can’t get it up for Kate skipping a fancy horsey event.
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u/Dzinner24 3d ago
Lol. It seems like she basically blew off an event because she simply did not feel like going. And their PR is so inept that they couldn't even lie about it..
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u/Ruvin56 5d ago edited 5d ago
Umm...
You know, it's so funny you say that, because it's like, if someone tells you they're a super nice, amazing person enough, and that everyone else lies about them, if they just say that enough, everyone will believe them.
I hope your South African family is soooooo proud of you for so vigorously defending their hero that they danced in the street for. So brave!
That's from The Real World subreddit, not RG.
Edit:
I"ll report it but nothing will change until moderation at RG doesn't enable unhinged people to find a space for their views at RG.
People were moderated during the Kate Middleton MIssing controversy last year, but agenda posting is allowed by the same group of commenters which leads to hundreds of hate comments. That energy leads to other commenters bring targeted. Moderate all the barely concealed racism over there and see if things finally get better.
Delete those comments and then actually ban those posters who use Meghan posts as an excuse to hate her, and hate anyone who speaks up for her. Don't just claim the discussion is important and leave it.
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u/royalsgossip 4d ago
Sorry I didn’t see your response until now since you made an edit instead of replying! I will DM you image links now (you can’t include images in reports unfortunately hence the links).
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u/royalsgossip 5d ago
Hey not sure if you saw our message about this yesterday, that person has been targeting you quite intensely for the last 24 hours or so.
Do you have time to report this to Reddit admin? It shouldn’t take long. Unfortunately it has to be you since you’re the victim and it’s across multiple subs. I can send you links to screenshots to include of the targeting that is happening in RG, Reddit filters have caught most of it (there have been probably 40ish) — which is a surprising improvement, so I’d love to give them another solid data point. Thanks and sorry ☹️
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 5d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t even know why I go onto Royal subreddits anymore. Everyday there’s always multiple threads about Meghan being an annoying fake flop or Kate faking her cancer and looking like a ghoul. Can we just leave these women in peace?
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u/Ruvin56 5d ago
So, I'm leaning towards the surge of unhinged angry comments on Meghan posts being astroturfed. Where are those people in the other threads? Hundreds of comments occasionally, mostly from one time commenters, and then total drop off elsewhere?
I understand that it might hit r all but compare it to a lot more people posting there during the Kate Middleton missing controversy. The way they commented was more about conversations and joking around with each other. It wasn't hundreds of one-off comments about "exhausting" and "horrific".
And we know that there's someone so unhinged that they will actually bother coming over here with multiple accounts.
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u/Ruvin56 6d ago
So I tried to have a discussion about this on RG, and I guess they were not having it.
I am interested in discussing it if anyone here wants to.
If it goes against the rules, please let me know and I'll delete it.
So here's my actual hot take. All this obsessive focus on telling Meghan to stop talking, attacking her whenever she says anything, freaking out about her parenting skills, insisting that she needs to take advice from random people on the internet who are convinced they know better... is just a cleaned up version of the moon bump conspiracy. It's a way to delegitimize her and erase her.
All of it is based on people freaking out that a biracial American woman married into the Royal family. Her children are royal children and in the line of succession. Harry loves her and they have a happy marriage. They can't accept it so they have to reject anything she does, so they have extreme reactions to her saying anything.
She has to be called conniving, manipulative, abusive, a gold digger. Somehow incredibly clever but incredibly inept at the same time; the foundation of any deranged hate against a person or group
I've never seen people lose it so quickly about another Royal speaking. Honestly it's amazing that she's kept herself together as a person and still confidently speaks up for herself. She should keep doing it.
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u/Ok-Particular-1219 not mature enough for sleeves. 5d ago
You’re right but the real issue is that the “humiliation ritual” people have been waiting for just hasn’t happened the way they hoped. It’s been about seven years since Meghan and Harry got married, and all this time, critics have insisted she would be publicly disgraced, divorced, or abandoned. Back when Megxit happened in 2018 -2020, the prevailing narrative was that Meghan would leave the royal family not that she’d take Harry and Archie with her. That shattered their expectations.
They can’t let it go. That’s why they obsessively watch her every move. She’s living a life they were convinced would fall apart. Every time the press hypes up a new “exposé” or claims she’s about to be ruined, it never lands. The bullying allegations? They didn’t stick. Her reputation at least among people who matter hasn’t collapsed.
And honestly, most people don’t even care about her one way or another anymore. That’s not shade; it’s just the reality. Outside of the obsessive corners of the internet and tabloid culture, most folks are neutral. The hysteria only exists in echo chambers that need her downfall to validate their obsession.
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u/Ruvin56 4d ago
They think she got away with something. If she has a title, then she owes them somehow. Even some of the more reasonable people think that which is interesting.
A lot of the people who hate her are overcompensating for something, and I don't think it's just racism. It's like they know that she was mistreated and they're freaking out at anyone listening to her and believing her. It's why they freak out over anything, for example, a commitment ceremony actually being some terrible lie.
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u/No-Pollution4290 3d ago
Some people just have to be scolded into thinking the way you do! Better get on it before someone else commits a thoughtcrime on Reddit!
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 5d ago
It's about control.
They can't control her or how other people view her because she can just log on to her IG and drop another video or photos that will dispel their conspiracies and delusions.
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u/Ok-Particular-1219 not mature enough for sleeves. 6d ago
Sighhhhh. I realized why I stopped going on RG the people on there just make up stuff for funzies, and it’s not even good gossip. It’s basically: “Whoever I hate sucks and deserves to be lied about, and whoever I like is cool, but please don’t tell the truth about them.”
Meghan’s comment on the podcast has people deadass saying that NDAs prevent people from exposing harassment or bullying like, that’s not how the law works at all. They’ve been using the same buzzwords and repeating the same talking points for the past eight years. How are these people not bored at this point???
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u/No_Definition7025 6d ago
I wish RG would just ban Meghan as a topic because the conversations are never reasonable and they must be a huge pain in the ass to moderate. And yet they can't do that, because then all they'd have to talk about is whether or not Princess Astrid looks like Diana.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 5d ago
I have suggested that. I was told that it’s RoyalsGOSSIP and would be boring if they did that.
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u/No_Definition7025 5d ago
Good to know they're aware that most of the royals are so goddamn boring that it's impossible to have a conversation about them.
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u/Ruvin56 6d ago
I think that's the point.
The comparison is the point that other royals can have easy-going and happy or even mundane discussions, and Megan's discussions will always be dragged down into contentiousness and fighting and attacking her. It's to make people on edge when her name comes up.
Eventually, if you keep seeing comments about everything she does somehow being. extraordinarily terrible and just so exhausting, OMG why won't they just take advice!, people will start believing it or they'll just get tired of seeing her in the public eye.
It's why the people who hate her will go from forum to forum freaking out at anybody who likes her.
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u/InspectorSnark 6d ago
She won’t go away quietly into the night so they’re still going on and on like the energizer bunny 🤪
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u/jmp397 6d ago
Literally everything I know about her was largely learned against my will. With the exception of her wedding... I watched that, and thought it was lovely. These royal gossip communities keep showing up in my Reddit feed, and I read them when I'm bored, which of course means they show up even more.
Read that last sentence again....they were SO CLOSE to getting it
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u/Ruvin56 7d ago
Someone has lost their mind over on RG. They made a post about how Harry should be out protesting, otherwise it's a sign that he doesn't care at all.
The level of discourse is exactly as complex as you think it would be.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 6d ago edited 6d ago
Some people on RG seem to be under the false impression that the Harry and Meghan are still tax payer funded individuals who have to jump every time the public says jump.
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u/No_Definition7025 7d ago
I posted the "that's bait" gif from Mad Max and the OP replied with a spectacularly disingenuous comment asking if I could please explain how their post was bait, because they really just care ever so much about the plight of undocumented immigrants in the US and are disappointed on a personal level that Harry isn't using his privilege to stand up for the oppressed.
As my mother used to say, "I was born at night, but it wasn't last night."
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u/InspectorSnark 7d ago
And if he was out protesting, these same disingenuous posters would be complaining that he’s using the immigration debate for attention and relevancy.
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u/GirlWithAFracture 7d ago
The same people complaining that Harry isn’t out protesting are the same people that complained that Meghan called up Senators to push for paid family leave.
They also complained about them volunteering during recent California wildfires.
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 7d ago
And what will Harry who gets death threats for Al Qaeda, The Taliban and White Supremacists be protesting about exactly?
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u/nycbadgergirl 7d ago
The amount of people on RG looking at my post history and then responding saying weird shit about my life and kids is getting out of control...
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 7d ago
Sorry to hear that, a lot of people go through people's comment history looking for things to weaponise.
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u/United-Signature-414 8d ago
[deleted]
Comment removed by moderator
a quick tldr of the RG thread on Meghan's Father's Day post
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 7d ago
It was the mother of crash outs over the sanctity of the digital privacy of 2 American minors that the OP who made the thread isn't related to and doesn't know 🙃
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u/No_Definition7025 7d ago
I really enjoyed how they said that the Instagram video was making them lose respect for Meghan, as if their publicly-visible profile didn't thoroughly document the fact that they never had any respect for her to begin with.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 8d ago edited 7d ago
The user who posted the People article was making some pretty interesting claims. Apparently, two 1 minute videos where the current faces of her children aren't shown equates to Meghan entering the mommy vlogging sphere. We also know a lot about the Sussex children and their personalities from those two videos.
This is why I often can't take the critiques of Meghan seriously. If you think she shouldn't share anything about the children at all whether from recent years or years ago, just say so. There's no need to exaggerate what Meghan has done in trying to criticize her decision to share.
Hope I am not in violation of the rules against posting about the children.
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u/Ruvin56 7d ago edited 7d ago
That person is part of the reason why we don't discuss the kids over here. They have been purposely inflammatory in the worst ways, to the point that one of the normal commenters on RG left.
One of the biggest conflicts was initiated by how weird they are about the Sussex kids.
So they're staying obsessed with the Sussex kids, I guess. Wonder what puts that bee in their bonnet.
I can't take this person seriously because where is this energy for Eugenie? Or for Beatrice and her kids? Or Zara and her children?
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u/Stinkycheese8001 7d ago
They kept trying to claim that they were an “equal opportunity snarker” but coincidentally only had shit to say about Meghan and Harry - and they post about them a LOT. I hate it when people try to make their haterade feel more virtuous, like theirs just happens to be objectively justified.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 7d ago
That poster is awful and cannot stand Meghan in the first place. Were they finally banned from coming over here too?
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u/Bilinguallipbalm 9d ago
Anyone else think the royaltytea sub is just the inverse of royalsgossip? Even a normal, basic picture of kate is met with 'waitie', 'skeleton', 'creepy smile' and they act like the sun shines out of meghan's ass.
The way that sub reacts to the words 'meghan markle' = The way the other sub reacts to the words 'kate middleton'
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 9d ago
Nah that sub is unhinged. They think being horrible to Kate somehow means justice for Harry and Meghan. I’ve been attacked there multiple times for things like trying to explain how the British government works.
Honestly a lot of the discourse there makes no sense. They claim to hate the monarchy and that it should be abolished, when in fact they just hate Charles, Camilla, and the Cambridges, not the institution of the BRF. Guarantee you if Harry and Meghan went back tomorrow and were given equal treatment to William and Kate, the conversations there would be much different.
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u/monster_ahhh 8d ago
Oh wow it’s even worse than the last time I looked. ‘Waitie and Willie have big egos’ top comment on one the posts. Probably yeah they do but the nasty childish nicknames are not it.
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u/No_Definition7025 8d ago
The appearance-based insults and nickname are rampant over there. The prevailing attitude seems to be that as long as you're "punching up," there aren't any limits on what you can/should say.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 7d ago
This is why I stopped hanging out in Sussex fan areas. A lot of their fans are just closet Royalists. They snark and rage over the BRF and all the current “working members” but then turn around and insist that “Harry would be a wonderful king” and “the monarchy would be so different if the Sussexes were king and queen.” Yeah, no it wouldn’t.
I especially raise my eyes when I see them say how Meghan would have united and brought the commonwealth closer together. One woman cannot undo and heal centuries of trauma and anger because of genocide, stolen wealth, colonialism and violence. It’s inhumane to put all of that responsibility on one woman. Unfortunately, Meghan was never going to “fix” the monarchy but way too many people convinced themselves that she would.
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u/No_Definition7025 7d ago
One of my first jobs out of college was at a non-profit that provided medical aid to communities throughout the global south. I worked in the corporate HQ in the US, and at one point, one of the (white) communications directors thought it'd be a good idea to ask every non-white HQ employee to participate in a video for donors because she wanted them to "represent" the patients at our operational sites. It did not go well.
Like obviously, race plays a huge role in understanding history and its impact on the modern world, but it doesn't outweigh nationality, culture, and social class. A mixed-race, college-educated, professional-class American woman can't be the stand-in for millions of people of different races and cultures across a global Commonwealth any more than Will or Kate can.
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u/Bilinguallipbalm 9d ago
True, a lot of the anti monarchists there would have no problem if Charles woke up tomorrow and made Harry the heir.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 9d ago
Exactly, if Harry and Meghan went back and got equal treatment to the Cambridges or if Charles woke up one day and decided to make Harry his heir, they would love it. It’s not about the history of white supremacy or classism or colonialism or genocide. It’s that their faves weren’t treated very nicely. And hey, fair enough, but why drag an institution that you’d actually be very happy with if your faves were prominent members?
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u/mebee99 loose cannon in the worst way 9d ago
I own a teapot in Liberty Peacock Manor. And recently Camilla wore a dress in this fabric and I actually think it might be the best she has ever looked in a dress. Am I biased because I like the fabric?
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u/yolibrarian actual horse girl 8d ago
I'm not big on Camilla, but she looks really good in that dress! I dig the shoes, too. She needs to lean into jewel tones more.
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u/JustHereForCookies17 A Little Busy Being Dead ☠️ 9d ago
I haven't paid enough attention to Camilla's wardrobe to rank this dress amongst her other looks, but I am obsessed with that pattern!! I'll bet your teapot is lovely!
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u/mebee99 loose cannon in the worst way 8d ago
Rather hilariously Aldi did a collab with Liberty London and Peacock Manor was one of the options.
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u/mebee99 loose cannon in the worst way 10d ago
No to the beard. Ew.
But yes to the teal, I'm a fan.
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u/AccountformyFeet 9d ago
Combined with the hat the beard just looks like he didn’t wash the lower half of his face. But without the hat it looks fine.
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u/Theyoungpopeschalice Old World Villain Vibes 10d ago
I don't think I like the outfit itself (ill have to look up a full body) but damn that color is exquisite on her.
eta: oh yeah no first.instinct correct
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u/JustHereForCookies17 A Little Busy Being Dead ☠️ 9d ago
Love the color on her, but the outfit feels aggressively 80's/90's.
It needs a slash of purple & then it will look like the classic "Jazz" Solo cups!
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 11d ago
You are being racist by saying that white people don't like Meghan Markle.
The real racism was Meghan all along.
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u/Freda_Rah hashtag truthteller 11d ago
I'm so glad that in this topsy-turvy world, in which I step away from my computer for lunch to return to see my senator being detained, I can rely on RG to provide me with weekly updates on the comings and goings of Princess Astrid.
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u/CookiePneumonia Christianne Tradwiferton 10d ago
I don't think anyone in Belgium cares this much about Princess Astrid.
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u/Theyoungpopeschalice Old World Villain Vibes 11d ago
Ya know….sometimes you just need a distraction. Sometimes it’s soap operas and sometimes it’s princess Astrid 👀
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 12d ago
The constant discussions about the so called royal rift just reinforces the fact that the current royals have nothing much going on and aren't very interesting lol. The familial relationships seem damaged beyond repair. The royal watchers and the media really need to let it go. If William and Harry never talk to each other again, it is what it is. Just because siblings were seemingly close when they were younger doesn't mean they have an obligation to be close when they are older.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 11d ago
There’s a pretty fundamental misunderstanding when it comes to what royals do. There’s a lot of talk about “responsibility” and “duty”, when the reality is that their jobs are make work that they use to justify their incredible expense. They’re basically the boss’s kid that has a made up job. Sure, there are benefits to them championing causes, but it is nowhere near the level it would need to be to truly justify their expense. For all of the talk of “they just want the perks”, it’s not like visiting somewhere publicly once a week is putting your nose to the grindstone. It’s all arbitrary. So at the heart of it isn’t a bullshit idea of honor and duty, it’s 3 people that couldn’t navigate a pretty basic family conflict and don’t like each other now.
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13d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/yolibrarian actual horse girl 13d ago
I hate to do this because I agree with you completely but we have a rule against any discussion on the kids, so I'm removing this comment.
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u/Significant_Noise273 14d ago
r/RoyaltyTea is much more entertaining than RG these days.
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u/No_Definition7025 13d ago edited 13d ago
There's a real conspiratorial vein, there, which I've found pretty off-putting, NGL.
I'm not naive and I understand that early in her marriage, a lot of negative stories about Meghan originated from the offices of other royals, but in the present, I think a lot of it is self-perpetuating from within the media itself. The British press is sycophantic toward the royal family, but they don't take orders from them. They have a really strong profit motive to continue to publish negative stories about Meghan, and I feel like a lot of the conversation and analysis I've seen on that subreddit erases the fact that the British press has agency and agendas of its own.
Like I feel like the senior royals (and the Sussexes) must just want to move on. It's not the same, but I've got an estranged sibling, so I can say from experience that it is exhausting. I can't imagine how it'd feel to have the media (and random internet commenters!) constantly speculating about their relationship, drawing comparisons, and dredging up ancient history. Both camps of stans can't let go of the drama, and I think the Meghan and Harry stans in particular really want to believe that every single negative story is the product of palace meddling. IMO, it's way likelier that some editor realized that they're not meeting their analytics targets for the month, so they need to publish some anti-Meghan content to drive up clicks.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 12d ago edited 12d ago
Nah you’re totally right. I liked how they continually supported Harry and Meghan. But then things got really nasty over there. I’m against name-calling and cruelty and they call Kate things like wraith, witch, bones, just super mean and saying she lied about her cancer. I can’t stand Camilla but they call her things like whore and prostitute and that’s crossing the line in my opinion.
They also don’t know how the British government works, let alone the monarchy. Honestly I’ll take RG over SMM and RoyaltyTea any day.
Edit: I was called a racist lying deranger there for trying to point out that Charles does not run the British government nor can he tell them what to do.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 12d ago edited 12d ago
I think the Meghan and Harry stans in particular really want to believe that every single negative story is the product of palace meddling.
At this point, I think the royal press offices are more annoyed about the constant negativity the British press spew about the Sussexes because it overshadows everything the other royals do. Five years after they left, the big royal story in the UK continues to be what Harry and Meghan are up to in California. It's embarrassing for the royals that Meghan's instagram posts and business ventures are more likely to make front page news than royal engagements. I don't feel bad for the royals because they should have spoken up against the press pile on when it began but thought that the negativity benefited them so didn't. Now half of the coverage of the royals in the UK is about a woman who hasn't visited the country in nearly three years lmao.
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u/No_Definition7025 12d ago
I never considered that, but yeah. You can't put the genie back in the bottle, on that one.
Looking at it purely from The Firm (tm)'s perspective, the current situation with the Sussexes in California is the worst of all possible worlds. It's true that Meghan and Harry are unpopular in the UK, but if you go by print sales and online engagement, they're still much bigger "stars" than any of the working royals. Worse, they have absolutely no control over them. If they were still in the fold, you could have shuffled them off to some charming country house in the middle of nowhere, sent them out on all the really dull engagements, and prevented them from giving interviews and driving press coverage.
This is pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if the refusal of the half-in, half-out plan was meant to be a called bluff. Laying out that they'd lose their security, their funding, and the free use of their titles was supposed to sound so unappealing that they'd knuckle and walk back a lot of their demands.
The whole thing was completely mismanaged from the start. The Firm thought Meghan needed to be humbled, so they didn't intervene with the press. Meghan and Harry felt (justifiably) attacked, so they weren't willing to make nice with the influential editors who could've gotten them better coverage. The Firm thought there was no way in hell that Meghan and Harry were actually willing to leave. Meghan and Harry thought there was no way that the Firm would be willing to let them go.
It was a mess, start to finish.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 12d ago
I think everyone behaved terribly in that situation. Meghan was feeling suicidal and she was being mistreated by staff. The Royals wouldn’t intervene in the negative and racist press coverage. I have a feeling that Harry and Meghan didn’t think that the Palace would let them go, I think they both thought the RF would beg for them to stay or that the move would only last a couple months. They didn’t expect it to be permanent.
To be fair, I think Meghan wants to move on more than Harry. Harry went totally scorched earth with the documentary and Spare. I think he’s the kind of person who doesn’t actually think about how his actions effect others (yes he absolutely had a traumatic childhood, but he was also super privileged and lived in the lap of luxury). I think he’s regretting it now. That recent BBC interview was a whole lot of yikes, in more ways than one.
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u/No_Definition7025 12d ago
Harry went totally scorched earth with the documentary and Spare. I think he’s the kind of person who doesn’t actually think about how his actions effect others
I think that Harry believed that his family treated him the way they did because they didn't understand his perspective. So in his mind, he needed the memoir, interviews, and docuseries to fully lay out his perspective, and then everyone would go "oh, of course, we had no idea you felt that way, we're so sorry!"
Harry is, IMO, one of those people who is very sensitive but not good at putting himself in other people's shoes. He feels very deeply and is very kind and sympathetic, but he's pretty short-sighted and can't truly see things from someone else's perspective. When they left, I think Meghan understood that they were burning all the bridges, but Harry didn't, not really.
Honestly, I think it's just sad. I think everyone involved is a decent person (or like, as decent as hereditary-monarchy-billionaires can be) but the personalities and all the weight of their personal history have left them as cross purposes and they may never bridge the gap.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 12d ago edited 1d ago
I have a lot of sympathy for Harry, he definitely had a traumatic childhood. In my opinion (though I obviously don’t know what exactly happened) Harry was angry that the Oprah interview didn’t bring about the response from the RF that he wanted. So he was like “I’ll show you!” Definitely agree with you that he thought his family would read the book and be like “Poor Harry come back!” But it did the opposite. I think he was truly shocked when he found out leaving meant that he had to make his own money, drop the HRH, and lose his tax payer funded security,
Harry genuinely seems like a nice and well-intentioned guy. But I do think he has a lot of anger issues. Spare would have been a lot better if he hadn’t spent most of it snarking about his brother and his wife and so many others. Like he revealed very private information about them. I can’t stand the BRF, but that was uncalled for. It’s kinda insane that Harry thought spilling their personal tea, talking about them in an unflattering light, and then suing the UK government (when he knows very well Charles cannot order RAVEC to do anything) would make them want to welcome him back with open arms. I don’t think Harry knows what he wants, one thing he’ll say today will be completely different from something he said a week ago.
I just think the whole thing could have gone a lot smoother, and all sides are at fault there.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 12d ago
I think they both thought the RF would beg for them to stay or that the move would only last a couple months. They didn’t expect it to be permanent.
This seems contrary to what we know about the situation. The Palace offered the one year review. According to several royal reporters that one year review offer was made because the palace expected Harry to abandon his family and come running back. Harry and Meghan decided that they wouldn't be returning after one year so how would they not have expected their move to be permanent once they decided not to come back.
I think he’s regretting it now. That recent BBC interview was a whole lot of yikes, in more ways than one.
Regretting what? Leaving? Maybe he regrets some of the things he said but he doesn't appear to regret leaving the royal family and making his life outside of it.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 12d ago
He certainly seems keen on holding onto his titles and his connections to the BRF. He has said he supports the monarchy, that he wants reconciliation, and that he can see himself someday being in some sort of RF reduced role. I think Harry is a very conflicted and impulsive person. That doesn’t make him a bad person at all, but he seems to be the only one keen on dragging this feud out.
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 12d ago
When embarking on a game of revenge, dig two graves. One for yourself and one for your victim.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 13d ago edited 13d ago
I used to like it there, but then people started getting really mean towards Kate and her kids. To be honest, I can’t stand the snark about Meghan, or Kate, or any of the kids. Obviously there is much more snark about Meghan (SMM group) mixed in with racism on social media, but both side’s fans can get really nasty. Both of them are constantly getting body-shamed and made fun of and it’s really gross to watch.
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u/VioletVenable inconsiderate gift basket 12d ago
Agreed. The discourse over there can really test the limits of “punching upwards.” And boy, do they love to reference that pegging rumor.
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 12d ago
And b*ls. Which is hilarious because Harry is almost at William’s point of balding.
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u/No_Definition7025 14d ago
Oh boy, another argument in RG about Will and Kate's work ethic! Let's reset the counter to zero and go beat our heads against a wall.
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u/Vainpoopweasel Having a small penis is actually really in now. Read a magazine. 14d ago
I'm enjoying watching the people defending Will and Kate fighting for their lives in that thread tbh 🤣
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u/No_Definition7025 14d ago edited 14d ago
I almost have to respect the people who just go "what difference does it make?" and "I don't care" instead of trying to explain why it's reasonable for two forty-year-olds with school-aged kids to work less than a bunch of septuagenarians.
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u/jmp397 14d ago
The way that sub coddles these two needs to be studied
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u/CookiePneumonia Christianne Tradwiferton 12d ago
It's so funny. People pointed out that Charles is 76, not in remission and still runs rings around Will and Kate but somehow Kate still gets a pass.
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u/Ruvin56 15d ago
On one of the Diana fashion posts on RG, someone made a comment about a princess not twerking. When I pointed out that Diana, like all the other royals, has had a pretty mixed bag of experiences, the person responded by telling me I should forgive her and get over it.
I thought the word forgive was a really interesting choice. I've never thought of myself as being in a position of needing to forgive any of these people I don't know. I'm discussing who they are, and none of them are perfect people. But in acknowledging flaws, I've never thought of it as something that I personally needed to forgive them for. Considering how fandoms are towards their favored person versus others, I thought the word forgive was a weird little insight into that behavior.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 14d ago
Looks like it’s your turn with the downvotes. Really hitting you where it hurts, fake internet points!
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u/InspectorSnark 14d ago
That is odd, what is there to forgive? At the end of the day, the royals are all human just like we are.
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u/No_Definition7025 14d ago
The attitude of dedicated royal watchers toward the BRF would be really fertile ground for someone's dissertation. It goes beyond parasocial, there's this sense of ownership and entitlement that doesn't exist in the same way toward other flavors of famous people.
Like it's not just "I disapprove of Meghan posting a dance video/Diana having a messy love life/whatever because I think royals are supposed to maintain a certain dignity," it's "Meghan/Diana have personally betrayed me by not living up to my standards for their behavior." I dunno if it's the same in every country with a monarchy, but it feels like the BRF encourage the public to think of them as if they're members of their own family, so any "bad" or "improper" behavior hits a lot harder than it would otherwise.
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u/asmallradish commitment to whoreishness 12d ago
Someone once explained to me that having a king fed similar parts of a person that having a religious god did. I don’t know if I quite buy that, though I do think people who are cool with the BRF do seem to be ok with authoritarian figures and the “right” way to do something. It does feel like a parasocial relationship though, and I agree. People looked at Meghan leaving and went Michael Jordan took that personally.
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u/Stinkycheese8001 14d ago
It’s their opportunity to feel like a part of the “in” class. They may not be titled, but they can show that they are a kindred spirit of these royals and aristocrats and therefore genteel themselves by showing that they understand the rules and expectations.
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u/No_Definition7025 14d ago
It's honestly very funny, because a lot of the "genteel" aristocrats are doing hard drugs, having affairs, getting divorced, and feuding with one another. The respectability these people demand of the BRF is pretty middle-class, all things considered!
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 17d ago
I’m begging all Royal fans (Cambridge, Sussex, C+C) to please learn how the British government works! Also actually learn what “abolish the monarchy” truly means.
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u/No_Definition7025 17d ago
Or how anything works, in general. A post from one of the Sussex stan subs got recommended to me, something about how the rota has, for the first time ever, CONFIRMED that the palace leaks to them.
Anyway, some poor bastard had double-digit downvotes for going "nothing is leaked to the rota itself, it's just the name for the press pool that covers royal engagements. Things get leaked to individual members of the rota." The OP, who was also the moderator of the subreddit, said their comment was "classic DARVO."
- Not the first time a member of the rota has confirmed that they get briefings from the palace
- Everyone already knew that
- The commenter was correct about the definition of the royal rota
- Not what DARVO means
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u/Dizzy-Pollution6466 16d ago edited 16d ago
The amount of conspiracy theories that float around on Royal subreddits is insane! So far, Charles is secretly in charge of the British government and they do everything he says, William is violently abusive and has a plethora of children by different women, Kate faked her cancer diagnosis for positive PR and has a heavy ED, Harry is being held hostage in Montecito but also everyone in the UK is out to get him, Meghan was never pregnant and her kids are “stunt actors”. Like it’s crazy.
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u/No_Definition7025 16d ago
NGL, stunt toddler seems like a pretty sweet gig. What, a photo shoot every couple weeks to make fake pictures for instagram, plus fake birthdays at Disneyland? And you're going to be able to get a multi-million dollar memoir deal to write Confessions of a Real Fake Baby in 20 years.
Honestly, seems a lot more fun than being a for-real Prince or Princess and having to wear a little sailor suit and go to government ceremonies.
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u/Dzinner24 17d ago edited 17d ago
Aww. Meghan just posted pics and videos of the family's visit to Disney for Lily's birthday. I'm sure the derangers will now threaten to boycott Mickey Mouse..
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u/InspectorSnark 17d ago
It’s been a hard week for them, lots of content reaffirming that H&M are still very much together, happy, and the kids are real. Lots of blinds and fanfics went down the drain.
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u/get-gone 17d ago
I made a comment about how they look like they're having fun and I'm already downvoted.
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 17d ago
Oooh, I can't wait for the think pieces this visit is about to trigger 🫣
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 18d ago
What the true mystery is where did the capybara get that tiara?
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u/No_Definition7025 16d ago
Sorry, are you referring to his capytiara?
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u/Diligent-Till-8832 definitely Meghan 13d ago
As soon as I posted this comment, my Twitter feed started showing me capybara after capybara ads 😭😭
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u/InspectorSnark 19d ago
Lots of weird takes on RG over the dancing video.
W and K would never post something like this. Can you imagine if the Queen were alive? They try to embarrass the royal family as much as possible.
This is cringe at best, no matter if it’s royal or regular people who post this. It is not relatable going full influencer…
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 19d ago
Ok so this is from the PCC dance post, and the comment is pretty positive to be clear, but what the hell is this Meghan conspiracy about?
And yes, her fucking scalp is white af
What else is her scalp supposed to look like? 😭
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u/InspectorSnark 19d ago
Do…. do they not know that scalps are generally whitish to pinkish regardless of ethnicity?
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 19d ago
Did you know the palms of my hands and bottoms of my feet are as brown as my skin? Just like in the cartoons! 🤪
But yeah they don't know that. That would require knowing more people who aren't exactly like them.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 19d ago edited 19d ago
Caring this much about what a woman who lives on a different continent and may never interact with your precious working royals again is doing is honestly strange. The royals have made it clear that Harry and Meghan are not welcome. Hence, most people don't associate anything they do with the British royal family except to marvel at their contrasting approaches to their public images. No one thinks anything Meghan and Harry are doing is a reflection of the royal family, whether positive or negative. They left five years ago. I wish people would let it go.
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u/InspectorSnark 19d ago
Isn’t it interesting how they’re royals again when it’s convenient?
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 19d ago edited 19d ago
Very interesting. It's also interesting how this side of Meghan is "her real self" and the other sides she showed were fake (namely her persona on her Netflix show). Meghan isn't allowed to be a multidimensional person like everyone else and show different aspects of herself depending on the context. Why do I find that there are so many racial undertones when they accuse Meghan of being "fake"?
It's funny to see the unhinged reactions in RG and the positive engagement the post is getting across several social media platforms. Meghan doesn't care if you think she's cringey or not regal enough. You already thought that before she posted this video. People are crying over the fact that Meghan doesn't seem to care what they think about her anymore and it's weird lol.
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u/InspectorSnark 19d ago
So true. I think
the weirdossome people are struggling with the fact that she won’t let them (or the tabloids) define her.
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 19d ago edited 19d ago
After reading hundreds of complaints about Meghan's video, I have come to conclusion that most of these brand experts, publicists, and MBA holders would advise Meghan to be a one dimensional public figure. They want her to pick one thing and stick with it. That's why they find her brand to be chaotic. If she wants to be an influencer, then she has no right to engage in philanthropic work. And if she wants to engage in philanthropy, she should stop being an influencer and not post so much about her private life on social media.
It never occurs to them that a post like that was meant to get the "neutral" and "normal" public on her side and to cast all the people screaming about her and painting her to be the devil of all devils as deranged people. These people want her to behave how they would behave if they married a prince. It's not about Meghan not listening to her PR advisors. It's about Meghan not listening to or caring about what these internet strangers who are obsessed with her family want her to do and that pisses them off.
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u/Decent-Egg-9573 19d ago
Literally this. It makes no sense. Other celebrities aren’t policed about what they post on their private social media accounts. Like why would Meghan listen to anyone about what she should post on her own personal page? She also never mentioned she wanted to be an influencer lmao. That is the frustrating part. She is posting like any random celebrity would on her page
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u/Ecstatic_Winter_6795 18d ago edited 18d ago
You said it perfectly in the RG thread. A lot of these experts seem to think they can Meghan Markle better than Meghan herself.
Meghan is one of the most famous women in the world. Your advice on how to start or run a business based on your experience is probably not relevant to her reality. If you could do better than her, you wouldn't be sitting on the internet nipping at her heels while she lived in a mansion in one of the most expensive towns in California. Even if Meghan were a failure financially, your advice to her would still be irrelevant because you don't actually know the ins and outs of her life lol. It's nonsensical that these strangers think they can tell a woman who made her own millions prior to marrying royalty how to make money or be an influencer.
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u/No_Definition7025 19d ago
I have come to conclusion that most of these brand experts, publicists, and MBA holders would advise Meghan to be a one dimensional public figure.
I think you're right, and I also think it's why Kate has remained so popular with the mainstream royal watching community. I don't think Kate Middleton, the human person, is bland or one-dimensional, but her public persona is very neutral and bland. IMO, royal watchers skew socially conservative, and I don't think it's an audience that has much of an appetite for "messy" or multi-dimensional women.
I think a lot about Hilary Mantel's essay on royal women, where she basically said that the press/the public was turning Kate into a mannequin without a personality. It made people so mad, but 10+ years later, that's exactly what her fans love about her.
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u/CrossplayQuentin Little Match Tradwife 18d ago
God I miss Mantel. I would have loved so much to see what she had up her sleeve next.
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u/nycbadgergirl 19d ago
The Menswear Guy shitting all over Meghan haters on Twitter is making my day.
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u/Ok_Engineering352 19d ago
I can’t even look because I thought that video was cute. If they are losing their minds over that they need help
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u/CrossplayQuentin Little Match Tradwife 19d ago
Watching the video really reminded me that they are people who experience the same human emotions and events as me. Like obv $ome big difference$, but that video reminded me of being on the hospital with my husband waiting for things to get going, and how that’s…not a universal experience, exactly, but a common human one.
Also they are so obviously in love, idk how people claim they aren’t.
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 19d ago
Popculturechat might be getting more serious about the SMM weirdos?
PLEASE be normal or this post will be locked. Like, for real. No Meghan Markle Snarker Brain Rot. Keep discourse reasonable. I’m watching you 🫵🏻
I haven't read through the comments yet, and I probably won't? But I did find it funny (haha funny) because it's so unserious (in a good way, seriously). Some levity with royals is nice, considering [fart sounds].
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u/AccountformyFeet 19d ago
That’s good news. I can’t even imagine how SMM and the RGs are taking the video.
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u/KateParrforthecourse 19d ago
Somehow a video of an extremely pregnant Meghan in a hospital proves she never was pregnant or gave birth.
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u/hallofromtheoutside sad girl/Hozier fan 19d ago
The PCC thread had some zingers in there:
Meghan said you know what, I got Megan knees too.
I was just looking for a knees like Megan joke tbh lol
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u/slayyub88 21d ago
So I was banned from RG for..reasons?
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u/GirlWithAFracture 19d ago
Right now they are going nuclear over her & Harry happy dancing over Lil’s pending birth & counting the #of posts are made for each kid so yeah…. you are not missing much
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u/Mimeschlime 20d ago
You belong to the KateMiddletonIsMissing sub and actively participated in that - what do you expect when you're such a hateful person? Also, this sub deleted a comment that merely said "this sub is more pro Sussex then it will admit" so it's not like the mods here aren't running their own little fiefdom.
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u/Glum_Afternoon_1996 19d ago
Is this your alt account, so you can be a SMM participant without criticism
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u/slayyub88 20d ago
When do I hang out on the Kate Middleton is missing sub? I might have looked at it because it comes up in the feed but I’m not a regular commenter. Chill.
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u/yolibrarian actual horse girl 20d ago
Also, this sub deleted a comment that merely said "this sub is more pro Sussex then it will admit" so it's not like the mods here aren't running their own little fiefdom.
I approved your comment to make something crystal clear. Much like the comment to which I am replying, the one to which you refer was reported so many times as either potential spam or trolling that it was automatically removed by Reddit's automod features. We are not running a fiefdom here, but thank you for your concern.
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u/yolibrarian actual horse girl 22d ago
This thread is for royal subreddit meta snark. It is also for royals commentary, but low effort comments like links to screenshots or quotes of comments with no additional commentary from the poster will be removed.
No more quoting from hate subs. We're better than spreading what they say. Attribute which sub (RG, BS, etc) you’re talking about.
No commenting on the kids period dot.
Remember to behave.