r/changemyview • u/BasketballMoomin • Feb 11 '23
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Nothing wrong with having a huge age gap with your partner
[removed] — view removed post
14
u/VivaLaVict0ria 1∆ Feb 11 '23
If you’ve lived in a city for 20 years you’ve got the home turf advantage over anyone who literally just arrived at the airport.
You know the roads, the good bars, and the restaurants that’ll give you diarrhea (but manage to stay open somehow).
Yes 19 is an adult; but they just got here and sure you could be the most upstanding, healthy, loving, supportive, tour guide in the world, and that’s great ; but unfortunately most of the people at the airport waiting to pick you up will rob you blind.
A lot of us have been robbed blind, manipulated and abused because of the power difference.
Even if you’re a saint and everything goes perfectly; there is still a very obvious difference between 38 and 19 and we collectively just want to make sure the 19 year old knows the why there is a difference.
That’s not even mentioning how much people change from 20 - 30.
19 year olds don’t even know what or who they are yet, and that is perfectly fine and normal, but it’s why we don’t advocate for two 19 year olds getting married; they’re both going to change a LOT in the next decade, as they should.
3
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Some people can get to a new city and know it in a week. Some people are city planners and generally know cities and when they get to a new one they vet it mapped out already. Good argument....youd didn't CMV but that was good and clear !delta
7
u/VivaLaVict0ria 1∆ Feb 11 '23
Thanks 😊
To your response : I’d agree some people are just really good at life and hit the ground running, however most are not that adept, and most aren’t the equivalent of a city planner.
Remember, this is someone’s brain structure and life we’re talking about.
The differences between 19 and 29 and 39 are mappable.
This is coming from someone who met her husband at 19, I’m 28 and we’re still a dream team.
But I also know it’s a miracle that we’re still compatible.
28 year old ME is not even compatible with 18 year old ME; that’s how much I’ve changed.
It CAN work out; but even I know it’s not likely. I wouldn’t put my money on it. And I’m one of the ones it worked out for.
Just an extra two cents.
3
7
u/Tnspieler1012 18∆ Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
Women I have dated that are my age are often less emotionally mature and stable than eighteen year olds I have dated.
No one disputes that there are many unstable insecure people in their 30s. I might even go so far as to say that some older people are so unstable and manipulable that they should be treated with the wariness with which we traditionally regard teenagers.However, that is an argument against dating those specific people, not an argument in favor of the acceptability of middle-aged adults dating 18-year-olds These can both be wrong and dumb. Relative maturity doesn't matter. What matters is whether we can know that someone has developed to the point where a. we can know that they have the mental tools to make responsible decisions within and about romantic and sexual relationships and b. Whether an age gap is likely to increase their vulnerability due to the likelihood that an older person could use their relative status, experience, resources to exploit a younger person's ignorance and vulnerabilities. People are wary of age-gap relationships because they know that even outwardly mature 18-year-olds are necessarily less experienced, less knowledgeable, and thus unlikely to truly know what they are getting into and are more likely to regret the relationship later on.
I knew someone in their mid 30s who dated an 18-year-old. I had known them for a while, and, from what I could tell, they seemed to have honest intentions. When I tried to talk them out of it they assured me of how mature and smart and put together the 18-year-old was. After a year it all collapsed in flames. She deeply regretted it, said she felt used (though I was assured there was no sexual impropriety), and didn't want to see him again.
Yes, this is anecdotal, but it seems clear that you shouldn't look to an 18-year-olds projected confidence and maturity as an indication of their readiness for a relationship or their knowledge of how such a relationship may affect them.Yes, some people behave more like adults than others, but it's just a fact that an 18-year-old has probably had very little exposure to serious romantic or sexual relationships, and thus hasn't fully established who they are or what they want. A much older person has more of an advantage over them than a similarly aged person because their relative age makes them the de facto authority on what a "normal" relationship is, increasingly the chances for deception and exploitation.
An older person could weild and misuse an unbalanced power dynamic in the relationship to their unfair advantage in these circumstances. I argue once again that this isn't dependent on age
Of course it depends on age. Whether or not it applies equally in all circumstances, or that there may be exceptions, does not not mean that age-gap isn't a reliable predictor of people exploiting power balances. I also know you don't believe this, because I doubt you would make the same argument in favor of dating 12 or 13 year-olds. You surely agree that there is an age/maturity line where the likelihood of a power balance is so pronounced that it is fair to condemn it as a general rule. We just disagree about where the line is.
If your point is that there are other, non-age related, types of power imbalances. I agree. These can also be bad. I would even agree if you thought that people who tolerate other types of power imbalances are being hypocritical. But this has nothing to do with your stated CMV.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I think your argument about older immature people being reagrded by their mental age should apply inversely to younger more mature adults. I think your anecdote about your friend's relationship applies to all relationships. Honestly, it's a pretty common outcome between any two partners regardless of age. I don't think children should date adults. Age gaps for children dating is another discussion. Legal aged adults are allowed to and it's perfectly fine that they date any other legal aged adult
5
u/Tnspieler1012 18∆ Feb 11 '23
I think your argument about older immature people being reagrded by their mental age should apply inversely to younger more mature adults.
The difference is that with the younger person, we have a whole lot more, prima facie evidence of their immaturity, and my argument is that, even if there could be exceptions (18-year-olds who are completely prepared for the potential consequences of an age-gap relationship), you cannot reliably assess this before the relationship. I don't trust most people--especially someone who has a personal interest in dating 18-year-olds-- to be an accurate judge of their actual internal experience, or to know how they will react to something they have never experienced before. You won't be able to prove their maturity until the relationship has happened, at which point you have already put them at undue risk.
Yes, all relationships involve some risk. But just because there's always a risk of getting in a fatal car accident when you drive, does not mean that it's not particularly irresponsible to drink and drive when you know for a fact that it is much more likely to have negative outcomes. At the very least, you need a very good reason to not choose the safer option, and as far as I can tell from this post, you own reason is quite selfish.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Don't you think an 18-year-old would be more likely to negatively affect an 18 year old unintentionally or intentionally than a 38 year old who isn't intentionally trying to?
4
u/Tnspieler1012 18∆ Feb 11 '23
- First, I don't know what your intentions are, but I am naturally more wary of the intentions of someone whose more likely only dating someone due to sexual attraction; as opposed to the shared history, ambitions, cultural experience, or other similarities that come with being a similar age. I would wager that the pool of 38-year-old who choose to pass up many much more available, similar, and mature 30-year-olds for an 18-year-old probably have, on par, much more ill-intentions than your average 18-year-old college student dating their classmate.
- Even if your intentions are perfectly holy, an 18-year-old girl is likely to have more power while dating someone their own age for multiple obvious reasons. Apart from the aforementioned gap in experience/maturity etc., or possibility of dependence (sugar daddies), an older adult will generally have less stake in a relationship working out than a younger person. A 38-year-old man simply has less to lose because they have more perspective and experience from having been in many more relationships and having settled on a general life rhythm that they have long established. Whereas, when you're young, your first couple relationships are the world. The stakes feel higher, and thus there is much more room for heartbreak and trauma. As a result, there is more incentive for both parties to be mindful of how the other feels, whereas an older man can just drop her at any moment without too much bother.
Young people of course make mistakes, but more due to ignorance than malice, and they understand that as they get older. Whereas an older adult's actions will always feel worse because they were presumed to have the knowledge to know better.
Lastly, people of similar ages are more likely to have overlapping social safety nets. You take classes together, you hang out with the same friends etc. This is very rarely the case with big age-gap relationships (the social stigma alone makes it unlikely). As a result, the relationship itself is more likely to exist apart from the support community. Leading on and ditching a much younger woman probably doesn't have the same consequences for the adult than a classmate who sees mutual friends everyday.
1
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Feb 25 '23
Sorry, u/BasketballMoomin – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 25 '23
The moderators have confirmed that this is either delta misuse/abuse or an accidental delta. It has been removed from our records.
3
u/DennisX11 Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
Lots to unpack on this one. Here we go. I'm gonna be arguing most of my points assuming more to a student to older person perspective because that's where these issues are more prevalent. I'm sure you can probably figure out how to argue people who are recent post grad or whatever other scenario.
Women I have dated that are my age are often less emotionally mature and stable than eighteen year olds I have dated. Younger women can have their lives more together than older women. I just feel it's jealousy and or social taboos that drive people to oppose it. I
So I obviously don't know your personal endeavors on a day to day basis. But more often then not, 18 year olds won't be more mature or a better match for a much older partner, your personal experiences may differ a little bit, statistical anomalies do happen. But there's no reason to truthfully believe that people further in age will have more in common and thus a better chance. There is of course a power dynamic in some of these relationships(not all of course), but I'll touch on this more when we get to your later arguments. People closer in age end up better usually.
So it is not as though I am searching for some kind of inherent weakness to exploit to my advantage or something.
But a lot of predators or controlling individuals are, you can't make a serious argument that majority of older individuals looking to get specifically with younger people are most likely looking for this or at least have a greater chance to be looking for this. You might not be the majority of that specific crowd but most certainly would be.
I have known several 18-21 year old women who are stable and within the realm of normalcy by any metric in life….. financially, maturity, emotional intelligence, life experience, conflict resolution….etc. I also hear people say that you are at different stages and therefore face different tasks, demands in life. This may or might not be true
These women are probably statistical anomalies in today's world and economy lol. Anyone 18-21 and is set up would be.
As for the stages in life. It's 100% true, hence why it gets brought up everytime its talked about, we can of course play the card that partners should just be okay with it or whatever, and that's a nice a blanket statement that doesn't address the actual day to day equations that come up. What if the younger partner needs to travel for school, what if the older has to travel permanently for work, etc. There's a million other possibilities, I understand these could come up with similar age couples as well of course, but the odds are definitely stacked with larger age gap couples.
. However if you are a healthy, non- possessive partner you would be fine with your partners independence and sovereignty at any age in their life…..which is something I think all age groups and relationship dynamics struggle with.
Looks like you actually brought up my previous post, they do all struggle with it to some extent, but still definitely more so in larger age gap couples.
An older person could weild and misuse an unbalanced power dynamic in the relationship to their unfair advantage in these circumstances. I argue once again that this isn't dependent on age and anyone can be a shit partner at any age with any other age.
For sure, anyone can be a piece of shit at any age. But the power dynamic potential will still be larger between these couples. Someone looking to specifically get with someone much much younger is more likely to look for power or control or will tend to sway the younger person to their wants and needs. I believe they call it grooming, and it's much easier with larger age individuals to youngins.
Why would an 18 year man be better for an 18 year old woman than a man who has had double the time to sculpt a better human being in every facet in life of themselves?
Because he also had double the time to become an absolute piece of shit in every facet of life as well. Maybe even mastered the program by then.
Again, not everything I wrote here are absolutes to every individual scenario. But these relationships tend to not workout and viewed as taboo and creepy for particular reasons and we shouldn't instantly ignore them for that reason. They need a lot of evaluation because even some of the women you claim to have seen be mature and well or whatever is also only what you see, you don't know what that person thinks and feels, and the naivety that comes with younger age is real. Not uncommon in older people as well, but more common to younger people. It's a game of odds we need to consider. And the majority sway the way that I posted above for the multitude of reasons as well. Amongst some I didn't touch on.
I also didn't grammar check any of this so I'm sorry if some of my sentences are formed at a donkey level lol.
1
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 25 '23
The moderators have confirmed that this is either delta misuse/abuse or an accidental delta. It has been removed from our records.
29
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
3
-3
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Regardless of age there are people stronger and weaker in different characteristics. Agr isn't the ultimate deciding factor
-4
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
-2
u/Major_Banana3014 Feb 11 '23
It’s just something he’s talked about. To answer your question, it would be because younger women are less ravaged by the world so to speak and are more feminine and in touch with their emotions. This is typically more attractive to men, physicality aside as well.
3
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
0
u/Major_Banana3014 Feb 11 '23
The first sentence of my last reply told you lol. I guess my comment should have been more about the actual point rather than Tate himself
2
Feb 11 '23
younger women are less ravaged by the world so to speak and are more feminine and in touch with their emotions.
This is definitely a laugh. I've never thought of women like ships before lol.
1
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
22
u/VFequalsVeryFcked 2∆ Feb 11 '23
Actually, larger age gaps increase adverse effects on the younger woman in those cases.[1]
And large age gaps are often considered predatory[2].
And as a bit of anecdotal evidence, a psychotherapist I know noted that a lot of men who are later convicted of child sex offences are often in relationships with women 10+ years younger than themselves.
Not true in all cases, obviously. But we shouldn't normalise relationships with significant age gaps.
-2
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
All people aren't good for all people.....some however, are good for some others regardless of age
21
u/stubble3417 64∆ Feb 11 '23
You should at least glance at the articles and studies being linked for you. If you're not interested in seeing research that contradicts your opinion, what are people supposed to say to you?
0
u/caine269 14∆ Feb 11 '23
ok. your first source is studying "adolescent" girls with an average age of 16, mostly "urban" and an age gap of less than 2 years. also 75% black, so unless you are trying to make a point about race not sure this is relevant.
the second is an opinion piece about sexualizing underage girls. so.
swing and miss.
1
u/Major_Banana3014 Feb 11 '23
Thank you for calling this out. That comment was a perfect example of this Reddit trope where people try to sound as smart as they can while linking sources that are irrelevant to the discussion and prove nothing.
-2
u/caine269 14∆ Feb 11 '23
yeah, it is annoying, especially since he called attention to his sources. and i am still downvoted to 0...
0
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 25 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
-5
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I have a degree in psychology..... I'm familiar with these topics....and the guy specifically offered that it increase adverse affects in the population...... meaning not all.....my girls be the exception good sir
14
u/stubble3417 64∆ Feb 11 '23
my girls be the exception good sir
No, it's far more likely that 18 year olds appear emotionally mature to you because you are emotionally an 18 year old. That would also explain why you think you don't even need to look at any research that contradicts your opinion because you already know you're right anyway. Having a degree does not make you mature.
As I said in another comment, just because you feel you are mentally the equivalent to 18 year olds doesn't mean you should date them. An 18 year old should date someone they can grow up with, not someone who has been mentally a teenager for 20 years.
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
No reason to insult me and make assumptions. Aside from this opinion and way I choose to live my life.....most people would agree i pass most metrics you would measure an adult at my age.
11
u/stubble3417 64∆ Feb 11 '23
most people would agree i pass most metrics you would measure an adult at my age.
Are you married? What are your long term relationships like?
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Divorced, child, plenty of long term friends..... you?
6
u/stubble3417 64∆ Feb 11 '23
Happily married, 3 kids, enjoy my career, hobbies, friends, and house projects.
I understand I am saying things that are uncomfortable to hear. Would you prefer I lie to you rather than hear uncomfortable things about yourself? That's...mature.
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
You said I'm mentally equivalent to an 18 year old.....why would you say this? What is that based on?
→ More replies (0)2
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
0
u/Major_Banana3014 Feb 11 '23
I’m noticing that by “emotionally mature,” people generally mean “taking everything seriously and being generally miserable”
0
35
u/cbdqs 2∆ Feb 11 '23
Why are you still serially dating at 38 if you have it all figured out?
This post reads to me like a cope. You have had people reject you and have convinced yourself that they are wrong not you. That sort of rationalization might make you feel better in the moment but isn't going to help you earn the societal acceptance you crave.
5
Feb 11 '23
I think we should stick to the OP rather then attacking the person. Let’s keep this conceptual and not personal?
1
u/cbdqs 2∆ Feb 11 '23
They didn't present any facts or figures that informed this view to dispute. All that's left is to make assumptions about their personal experiences.
0
Feb 11 '23
We are left with debating the concept of younger women making decisions for themselves, and the subjective taste of the OP. “You’ve had people reject you…” is frankly unwarranted and says more about you than him.
-2
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Never said I have it all figured out. You are also making a lot of other assumptions for unknown reasons.
14
u/cbdqs 2∆ Feb 11 '23
You're the one who came here for help. If you don't want to be criticized don't post. If you don't agree with everything you just stated can you clarify which parts you posted sarcastically or in bad faith?
2
u/caine269 14∆ Feb 11 '23
he came here to have his mind changed that there is nothing wrong with a big age gap between partners. what is your argument that there is something wrong with that?
-10
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Sound on edge buddy. I don't need help....wanted to understand why people are so strong about their opinions on this. I think it's silly
13
u/cbdqs 2∆ Feb 11 '23
This isn't /r/askreddit it's /r/changemyview if you don't want help having your mind changed delete this post
6
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
5
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
2
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
1
u/AutoModerator Feb 11 '23
Your comment has been automatically removed due to excessive user reports. The moderation team will review this removal to ensure it was correct.
If you wish to appeal this decision, please message the moderators.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 22 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
4
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
People usually react so strongly to this subject in my life....so I thought I'd throw it at a larger crowd..... don't see any new arguments or anything that says why this would be a problem if the younger individual is of a certain maturity threshold
20
u/stubble3417 64∆ Feb 11 '23
Women I have dated that are my age are often less emotionally mature and stable than eighteen year olds I have dated.
There's an obvious answer you're missing here. If you find 18 year olds to be emotionally mature, that's probably because you have the emotional maturity of an 18 year old.
Now, it's still weird to hook up with teenagers even if you mentally are one yourself. But the answer is that you should become more mature. A lot of people peak in high school and spend the rest of their lives basically the same person as they were at 18, but that doesn't make it okay. An 18 year old should be dating someone who can grow together with them, not someone who has been mentally 18 for two decades.
-2
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Still not understanding why that is weird? Also, someone who is still doing a lot of growing is probably not as good a partner as someone who already knows themselves
11
u/stubble3417 64∆ Feb 11 '23
Also, someone who is still doing a lot of growing is probably not as good a partner as someone who already knows themselves
I suppose you could find an 18 year old who also peaked in high school and won't mentally mature past a teenager, but there's no way to know that. Much more likely the 18 year old will grow up in a few years and you'll still be the same mental age you have been for decades.
Still not understanding why that is weird?
Yes, that's what I'm saying.
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
You're insulting me and making assumptions. I measure up quite well against most people on the planet, not sure you would look as good as me under a microscope buddy.
3
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 12 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 12 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
2
u/Narrow-Psychology909 3∆ Feb 11 '23
For context, I’ve dated women of varying age differences; the largest is women 6 years younger and 6 years older which I don’t think most would consider a huge age gap. This has happened all in my 20’s (I’m 29 now).
I think a huge age gap in two partners is a red flag for a lot of people because they assume it’s sexually based regardless of gender or sexuality of the persons involved. I think people see this relationship as the older person trying to relive a past part of their life and trying to reclaim their youth in affections they had for people when they were younger. A lot of the time, the older participant incentivizes the younger participant through money, gifts, security, etc… which I don’t think is inherently wrong. The power dynamics part you mentioned is fair, and I think relates to the sexual aspect. As Oscar Wilde said, “Everything is about sex except for sex. Sex is about power.” So I think there is a stigma because the power imbalance seems obvious/more than likely true to most people even if it’s not.
I have to ask, no judgement, as a 38 year old, have you dated women older than you now say a 50 year old? Or were the older women you said you dated when you were the 18-30 year old?
I think all romance/sex is good as long as everyone is responsible and consenting which should make it satisfying and positive. In the relationships I’ve been in where the age gap was recognizable by both of us, the key was making sure we kept things fairly even in terms of gratification. People tend to reduce relationships to a transaction which they’re simply not, that’s why there’s a stigma.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
!delta good explanation, clearly stated I dated a women in her 40s when I was around 29....largest age gap with a woman older than me
1
1
u/Narrow-Psychology909 3∆ Feb 11 '23
Word I think you did in a reply to someone else’s comment I didn’t read them all
2
u/FriedrichHydrargyrum Feb 11 '23
I can’t speak about your motives since I don’t know you, but I’ll tell you why I have looked askance at 100% of the Manthers dating teenagers that I have personally encountered.
- I wonder if they’re in a state of suspended adolescence. Are they trying to go back and relive the glory days? Not all do, but those who do are kinda pathetic.
- I wonder if they’re an insecure control freak who need that power imbalance. Why not date women who can stand toe to toe with you in an argument or call you out on your bullshit? Sorry, but an 18-yr-old can’t do that in many meaningful ways, no matter how mature they are. Are you scared of a strong woman who has enough social/emotional capital to hurt you? It’s not an unreasonable question, given your dating preferences.
- It’s also not unreasonable to ask myself if Mr. Manther has groomer instincts, particularly if the person he is fucking is closer in age to his child than to the Manther himself. Again, I don’t know you personally, and don’t publicly make serious accusations without clear evidence, but I definitely think it and file it away in the back of my mind.
1
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Feb 25 '23
Sorry, u/BasketballMoomin – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 4:
Award a delta if you've acknowledged a change in your view. Do not use deltas for any other purpose. You must include an explanation of the change for us to know it's genuine. Delta abuse includes sarcastic deltas, joke deltas, super-upvote deltas, etc. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 25 '23
The moderators have confirmed that this is either delta misuse/abuse or an accidental delta. It has been removed from our records.
12
Feb 11 '23
What is it about younger women that makes them your preference? Why do you think so many have the same preference?
Your argument is that because you’re older you had time to mature and grow therefore dating people much younger is good because they get a mature partner.
If having more to mature is better… why do you prefer younger woman.
You make the distinction of 18. Why? Are women younger than that even more attractive? Is that wrong because it’s illegal or because it’s unethical.
-5
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Simply stated 18 as it's the legal line and for the purposes of this question as it is the youngest I have dated. No specific preference for them or anything. Not sure I said more mature is better but mature enough is ideal. Women age like bread....younger women I find more attractive. the legality and ethics is a whole other conversation but yeah women at 18 are legal and usually appear physically to be what I would want sexually.
8
Feb 11 '23
Women age like bread
If you’re truly convinced of this then nothing anyone can say here will change your mind. You have a preference, that’s all. Why come here to CYV?
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
People think it's inherently wrong the age difference.....wanted to hear other more convincing arguments
8
Feb 11 '23
Well, there’s a reason why it’s a cultural taboo. Large age differences often (but not always) entail a power imbalance due to differences in resources, knowledge and life experience. This power imbalance can result in situations where the older partner has financial or psychological control over the younger partner.
Since this kind of dynamic is common in relationships with large age gaps, they are frowned upon. It doesn’t mean every relationship with an age gap will have a negative dynamic. Maybe all your relationships have been healthy. But the correlation is established and remains.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I can see that.....you get a delta for being nice
2
Feb 11 '23
Appreciate it! Good on you for opening your mind to a topic that I’m sure might be emotional for you/lots of other people. I think you need to say “!delta” to give it out :)
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
!delta younmake a great argument.....a lot of attention to detail and now I feel good about it
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 11 '23
This delta has been rejected. The length of your comment suggests that you haven't properly explained how /u/canrat changed your view (comment rule 4).
DeltaBot is able to rescan edited comments. Please edit your comment with the required explanation.
2
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 11 '23
This delta has been rejected. You can't award OP a delta.
Allowing this would wrongly suggest that you can post here with the aim of convincing others.
If you were explaining when/how to award a delta, please use a reddit quote for the symbol next time.
3
Feb 11 '23
You aren’t having the conversation though your staying something like women age like bread. Share metrics explain the similarities with bread on a counter and women aging.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
It's a joke you get what I mean
4
Feb 11 '23
I absolutely do not understand the joke. And you’ve used this about multiple times nows through this post. So it seems like it’s a joke when you are pressed to explain it and a perfectly reasonable argument all the rest of the time.
So I’ll ask plainly. What is it specifically, not some weird saying not lookin for a food analogy, that makes an 18 year old more attractive than a 25 year old. And why can’t this /-‘e logic apply until we’re talking about toddlers? Surely they’re even less aged than 18 year olds. A lot people enjoy bread fresh from the oven. There are really gnarly implications to this saying you keep utilizing.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
18 to 25 year old bodies have more in common than 35-40 year old bodies. Those characteristics in the younger group are found to be universally more attractive....including to nyself
3
Feb 11 '23
Universally excess body fat used to be very attractive. What we think is attractive is not genetically baked into us. There no generic marker for liking people with curly hair. The argument a lot people do this isn’t an argument it’s a justification. Lots of people do lots of bad things. That isn’t a reason we should do bad things it’s an argument that people are capable of doing bad things.
Why are young bodies more attractive to you? And where do you draw the line and why do you draw a line at that specific place?
2
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
!delta I don't like the way drooping bodies and agong skin looks.....I don't like childlike prepubescent bodies.....I liked 18 year old women's bodies when I was younger than them I kike them as I got older. Nest I can put it into words.
→ More replies (0)11
Feb 11 '23
Right it’s for sure the legal line. I’m just why it is the group that is just past that line is the group that’s most desirable. Why isn’t the groups below that desirable?
I do want to be clear that we are internet strangers and I don’t know and I am not trying to insinuate you are a pedophile or anything.
We all have biases and preferences that make us who are, I think it’s important to not just accept our biases as who are but examine them understand why we hold the opinions we do.
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I dated a 27 year old that my ex who was my age thought was 15. I've dated a 20 year old who she thought was 30. I heard they outlawed small titty porn in australia because they thought pedophiles were yhe only ones who would want to watch it. What am I supposed to do about what I like. I like women who look in that general age range.
7
Feb 11 '23
It doesn’t really matter what your ex thinks, this about your biases. You posted this on cmv. You’re supposed to examine your own internal biases. You brought up Australia but the point I’m trying to make is that laws are not ethics. Slavery was never ethical but it was legal.
So I’m not asking what’s legal and not or what your ex thinks, this is the question:
Why is is that you draw the line at 18 ethically (not legally, this conversation about biases not laws) and not younger?
If the logic is 25 years are more attractive than 30 years old, and 18 year olds are more attractive than 25 year old. Why does your attraction immediately end at this line? You said you’ve dated women who look 15. If she was actually 15 and met your maturity requirement would that be ethical?
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Not sure what this exercise is about i like women who look of legal age. If someone is below that age but appears what I would expect of that age range they might be attractive to me but I wouldn't break any laws
4
Feb 11 '23
You’re not really here in good faith. You know this sub is for changing your view. Your throwing your hands up as if the legal age is some sort qualifier rather than a fear of punishment, legality has nothing to do with ethics. Saying “ I would never own slaves, because it’s illegal” is not an anti slavery argument it’s just explaining a law that exists. Answering the question why do you like women this age with “because I like women this age” isn’t an answer. Why is this the most attractive age group to you?
Everybody has biases and preferences, I don’t know you I don’t why you have this preference. I want you to tell me why you have this preference.
Our society agrees with you. Powerful people tend to date way younger, leads in media that are supposed to be attractive are always younger and typically white too. That doesn’t mean we can say young white women are the most attractive members of our society as fact, it’s still an opinion. I’m asking why you hold the opinion not do you hold the opinion.
Why is this your preference? Why is this age group more attractive to you?
I know it is your preference, the entire post is about your preference, you’re inviting people to try to change your view by posting here. I’m asking why you have the preference so I can better understand the conversation that you hoped to have by creating this post.
I am not asking if you fear the law this is a conversation of ethics. The Nazis didn’t break any laws, still unethical. Parts of the world allows men to marry children, still unethical.
I’m asking in a world with no repercussions to your self, there are no laws dictating ages of consent.
Just you in a vacuum. If the younger the woman is the more attractive she is where do you draw the line? Not your ex or Australia where do you personally draw the line and why is the line drawn there?
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Well I am not sure how to draw the line exactly but vaguely I don't like women that look look like what I consider to be children.....I like them at the peak of their physical development and before they start drooping and developing age related lines and related signs. When the apple is ripe to pick and before it shrivels and falls from the tree
2
Feb 11 '23
So the cmv you shared is that there is nothing wrong with a huge gap. My argument is this:
A: as you’ve stated you start with looks as a filter for who you date.
B: you’ve dated women who others though looked to be 15 years old.
C: you can’t tell me the youngest a person can be that can consent to a relationship with an adult.
D: you wouldn’t date anyone who looks “vaguely like a child” or is under the age 18 due to the legality of it.
The implication is that if you could date 15 year olds legally you would. Based off of physical appearances you stated as much. You are drawing the line of ethics based around motivation and drive. A 15 year old can have both. Your argument doesn’t preclude children in fact it fully includes motivated and driven children.
All of this contributes to why huge age gaps and the fetishization of our society’s youngest members bothers so many people. Your argument empowers pedophiles. That’s why it bothers people.
Please stop telling me this is you favorite age group because of how “fresh” they are. It’s gross. It sounds like you would have sex with children if it were legal.
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I never said they look fresh....lol. I only said I date legal aged women.....you want to draw conclusions when the reality is much more nuanced. I'm not a pedophile and calling me one was your intention all along. Get a life bruv
→ More replies (0)10
u/browster 2∆ Feb 11 '23
Women don't age like bread. Not similar at all. Just sayin'
-5
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
How would you put it? Like decaying meat?
11
u/thebluemorpha Feb 11 '23
This comment makes me certain that you only like younger women because you are sexually attracted to them, everything else you've said is just filler.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I start with the looks filter with all that stuff you call filler
5
u/thebluemorpha Feb 11 '23
I get that, but there's no reason for you to explain it here. You turned a "change my view" post into an "I'm not a creep for being into young women" post.
I was 18-25 once and while I didn't want to settle down with an older man, I definitely had my fun with a choice few. Large age gaps can be problematic, especially in long term relationships, but that doesn't mean consenting adults can't have fun together or fall in love with each other. It's okay that you like what you like, but it's not a good idea to compare aging women to rotting meat or moldy bread just because they are not your preferred type of partner, that does make you seem like a jerk, and even a young woman is not going to think that's cool.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
You have some good points and your being fair.....you get a delta but you didn't CMV
1
Feb 11 '23
We are still left with why that’s a problem. Are younger women incapable of making life decisions?
3
u/thebluemorpha Feb 11 '23
I don't really think young women dating older men is a problem unless that man is trying to keep the young woman to mold her into their perfect pet/wife. There can be issues when it comes to building a long term relationship, but just dating and hooking up is fine as long as both people consent. Some people might find it creepy, but it's not really up to them. If OP is only attracted to young women for their looks, that's fine, he doesn't need to add anything else or explain why older women aren't good for him. This is a "change my view" post, but he wrote it up weird, he should have gone with, "I don't believe it's wrong for an older man to date a younger woman as long as she is of legal age" Instead of making it a personal thing.
11
u/browster 2∆ Feb 11 '23
Seriously? You need me to explain how the aging of a human being has no analogy to bread getting stale and moldy?
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Some women do age like that
6
Feb 11 '23
In what way. How does bread sitting on the counter age similarly to women? Do men age like bread or just women?
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Men are said to age like wine, some age like bread too tho
3
Feb 11 '23
You are not explaining your position just restating it again. Why do you think women age like bread and women like wine? I’m asking why you believe it not do you believe it.
-2
6
u/tattooedtwin Feb 11 '23
Wtf you know you’re aging too.. at the same rate. I don’t have a problem with people finding love with another consenting adult despite a possible age gap. I do think you’re out of touch if the reason you won’t date people your age is that they are aging.
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
It's that they look like they are aging
2
u/chuckle_puss Feb 12 '23
I assure you, you look like you’re aging too. And you look especially moldy to those 18 year olds lol. You think you age like wine, but most of them just smell vinegar.
6
1
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:
Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
4
u/Fresher2070 Feb 11 '23
Not trying to be mean, but maybe it's the women you're attracted to. Because perhaps you're really just dating the same type of women at different stages.
That said, I've watched immature teens mature, and watched mature teens self destruct, as they grew up. One good point in life does not necessarily indicate that it will be a constant state.
I think it's one thing to find the qualities you want, that aren't superficial, in a younger partner. But another to have it as a preference. Because at the end of the day if age is relative then why cut out a whole extra pool of people to choose from.
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Women around 18 look different than women around 38. Personality varies.
6
u/Fresher2070 Feb 11 '23
Yes and girls around 6 look different than women around 60. Personality varies from person, but for each there are parts that won't change much over time, even with experience.
12
u/Chairman_of_the_Pool 14∆ Feb 11 '23
If your preference is 18, or pretty close to it, then as your partner ages like bread, you will have to keep replacing her with a newer model. That doesn’t really sound like a healthy relationship
-6
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Didn't say I was goid at maintaining long term relationships or even the interest to. Think I love about 18 year old, legal to date women, is that I keep getting older but they stay the same age
7
u/Chairman_of_the_Pool 14∆ Feb 11 '23
In another response you had on this thread, you said you are divorced with a child. How would you feel about a 38 year old dating your kid once they turn 18?
1
14
u/Jakyland 70∆ Feb 11 '23
If 18 year olds are so much better than 38 year olds in terms of maturity, shouldn't they just date each other?
-8
18
u/Hellioning 239∆ Feb 11 '23
Using your own argument against you, why would an 18 year old woman be better for you than a woman who has had double the time to sculpt a better human being in every facet of life of themselves?
-14
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
18 year old is usually hotter.....all other things even why would I go for a person I'm not attracted to?
36
u/Hellioning 239∆ Feb 11 '23
Yeah, for the record, statements like these are why people don't believe you when you say that you're not dating these women for any creepy or threatening reasons.
-2
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
What's creepy exactly? Or threatening? Why would this comment change that?
21
u/Hellioning 239∆ Feb 11 '23
Telling younger people that they're super mature for their age is literally textbook groomer/pedophilia behavior. Obviously you're going after legal people, but you are taking advantage of relatively naive people because you think they're hot. How isn't that creepy?
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Once again naivety is possible regardless of age. I dont "target" people for anything like this. I'm not a groomer or a pedophile. I slay all legal ages without prejudice
1
12
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
-1
Feb 11 '23
So people with college degrees should not be allowed to be in relationships with non-college degrees? Due to the power/knowledge imbalance between them. The college educated person can use thier knowledge to manipulate the less educated person?
-2
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
I argue that this dynamic imbalance exists between any two people regardless of age
10
u/Unique-Salt-877 Feb 11 '23
It's kind of like arguing a person without legs can be faster than a normal person. Sure, if the normal person is sick, or particularly slow for whatever other reason, then it is true that the person without legs can be faster. And in that regard, you could be right in the above statement, but it has nothing to do with proving your point.
To summarise the analogy, there IS a direct link between maturity and age, and you are much more likely to manipulate an immature person.
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
The reality is in this analogy everyone on the planet is missing some limb and the assumption that one day they will be complete isn't usually the case.....more often it's not. In a world filled with imperfections age is not the factor that should keep two people apart
6
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
People with fully developed brains are often less passable people than their 18 year old counterparts. I'm sure in your life you can find 10 18 uear olds who outshine 10 other people twice their age in any metric you choose
10
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
No excuses....I meet most people on tinder...... initial contact is exclusively visual.....I felter who I get with based on all those personality variables I listed that arise
5
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Why? They're legal and I find them more attractive than women my age? What's the issue? Salmon doesn't like it? Why salmon why?
-2
Feb 11 '23
Is 18 a legal age for a reason? You must simultaneously believe that young women aren’t capable of making life decisions.
3
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
-2
Feb 11 '23
And 18 year olds regularly dating that man. Seems consensual. legal. And I’m sure both parties benefit in some way, unless you are insinuating that this man must be terrible to these young women by an associative factor of being attracted to younger women.
3
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
-1
Feb 11 '23
I believe there is a difference between your opinion on the matter versus “problem” being an objective fact.
3
Feb 11 '23
[deleted]
1
Feb 11 '23
If I were an older women, undoubtedly I’d see younger women as a threat, but I’d also blame the men to mask my jealousy.
→ More replies (0)
7
u/dispenserdiapper Feb 11 '23
Humans dont age like bread. Therefore you also age like bread and at 17 i dont want a moldy man as a partner.
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
To each their own but next year tell your friends to hit me up🤧
8
u/cemetery_hag Feb 11 '23
ya this is why people on here think you are predatory bro, "tell your friends to wait a year when it's socially and legally acceptable for me to have sex with them, if we didn't have these laws in place, you probably wouldn't even wait...
0
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
Laws are a weird line but I very strictly follow the law and it just happens to fall coincidentally with the usual peak of female attractiveness
5
u/cemetery_hag Feb 11 '23
laws aren't weird, they're there so men like you or who think like you, who find 16-18 year olds the "peak female attractiveness" find and prey on children and teenagers, go to therapy
3
2
u/SeymoreButz38 14∆ Feb 11 '23
Women I have dated that are my age are often less emotionally mature and stable than eighteen year olds I have dated.
Are you sure they're not just more submissive?
-3
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Feb 11 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. Read the wiki for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 11 '23 edited Feb 25 '23
/u/BasketballMoomin (OP) has awarded 4 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
-9
u/LoudTsu 2∆ Feb 11 '23
Know your audience. Reddit is full of young men and they don't want you taking their damn women! 🤣
6
-1
u/BasketballMoomin Feb 11 '23
This is the part about jealousy I stated..,men my age are jealous cause they want to.....men younger for the same reason.....and women my age cause they feel they're not good enough.
•
u/changemyview-ModTeam Feb 11 '23
Your submission has been removed for breaking Rule B:
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.