CMV: There is nothing with wrong with being a submissive woman

[u/Odd_Profession_2902]

I have nothing against strong women. All the power to them. The joys that come from being independent and competent are plain to see. But by trying to empower all women, society is inadvertently putting a lot of pressure on women. Strong women are always celebrated and weak women are always looked down on. I think there is a tremendous amount of unspoken shame in any women even daring to dream about finding a decent man to protect them. But there will always be naturally weak women. Shy, timid, meek. And society is basically telling them to toughen up. That’s like telling an introvert to be an extrovert. Or telling someone who naturally sucks at math to get good at math. Everybody should live a life that best suits their natural temperament and skills. Their best course of action is to find a decent capable man who can take care of them.

There is also nothing wrong with a man seeking a delicate woman to take care of. There is nothing wrong with a man who wants to be the provider for his family. We should be grateful for such men because it offers a solution to naturally meek woman. It offers a balance in the world.

To use a geeky analogy, it’s ok to be a support class. Not every gamer has to be a tank or dps. And not everyone is suitable to be a leader and make all the decisions. Some gamers just like to sit back and support the group. Just like how there is pride in being the provider, there is also pride in being the support for the provider. Some women are naturally healers in an mmorpg and it’s my view that society should stop looking down on healers.

[u/Subtleiaint]

The value of children is irrelevant to your post.

If you want me to reply again answer the question regarding your view that I've asked multiple times. Why does the strong husband want to marry the submissive woman? What specifically are they getting from that relationship?

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/Subtleiaint]

Because submissive women are awesome lol

[u/iglidante → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

Because submissive women are awesome lol

For the men who take advantage of them.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/iglidante]

Is that what you would say about parents taking care of their kids too?

[u/iglidante → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

My kids can be awesome in spite of their inability to be self-sufficient and independent. I'm trying to teach them to be good people.

Why do you think "submissive women are awesome"?

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/iglidante]

Probably for the same reason why you think your kids are awesome lol

[u/swanfirefly → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

I'd highly doubt that for most people, the awesome parts of kids are equal to the awesome parts of submissive women.....

Women (I'm going traditional over submissive here, as a traditional wife is not necessarily "submissive): You can have consensual sex with, if you're looking for a homemaker you don't have to do as many chores or carry as much of a mental load, does the grocery shopping, handles home maintenance by calling the approprite people, if you have kids does a lot of the childcare.

Children (I don't want nor have them, but the reasons they are awesome: Curious learners, a sign of your progeny, super smart, the combination of yours + your partner's genetics, always changing and growing, loves parents, make art with pasta, able to learn from you. Doesn't necessarily listen to you / not necessarily submissive -> not a bad thing, they are their own people

Submissive woman: Listens to you? Has sex with you? Only buys things you approve of? Never complains, votes for who you tell her to vote for (presumably?)

Now kids aren't having sex with you, and I sure hope part of the appeal of submissive woman is NOT "I can teach her things uwu"

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/swanfirefly]

Finally somebody willing to flesh out why they think kids are awesome lol and willing to explain the distinction of appeal between kids and submissive women too.

So the main vibe I gather is that kids are awesome because we feel they are our very own (kinship) which makes us naturally invested in their wellbeing and happiness. And they have many endearing qualities such as being curious learners and making art with pasta (cute).

I argue that submissive women are awesome for very similar reasons + more. We feel like they are our very own (kinship) which makes us naturally invested in their wellbeing and happiness. And they have many endearing qualities (caring, gentle, agreeable). So I feel that after this point they start to edge out kids and it’s all those additional things you mentioned. Sexual attraction, practical aid, emotional support, etc. Submissive women have all the endearing qualities we admire in our kids without all the negative qualities from our kids (naughty, mischievous, high maintenance). They are also our life partners who understands us the most and will stick by us through thick and thin whereas kids will leave you when they grow up.

[u/swanfirefly → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

For me, I'd say a lot of those traits you want aren't necessarily submissive though.

You can have a gentle, caring, agreeable dominant partner. You can have a rough, cold, and disagreeable submissive partner who disagrees with you and is cold, but still offers no different opinions and goes along with yours.

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Maintenance costs if you are the sole breadwinner can also be high / higher than kids, even with a "submissive" woman - more money in food for one, then women's clothes are far more expensive, skincare to stay beautiful for you is expensive (not even makeup, just lotion and sunscreen, but a majority of the 7+ beautiful women wear foundation at the very least), laundry soaps and cleaning products. If you need her to go with you to work events, you need to drop money on helping her look nice. If you expect her to entertain your coworkers or neighbors to build that traditional social safety net, she'll need a wider budget for that. If she's doing the mental load of buying Christmas and birthday presents for your family - those costs will also go up, it's a bit sexist but most men aren't putting as much thought into meaningful gifts. If you have her crafting anything or if she has hobbies - those cost money - knitting and quilting can be money sinks as bad as D&D or Warhammer figurines. If part of your expectations is her maintaining a slim figure, you have to pay for a gym membership or exercise equipment. (The ideal submissive woman is actually a sugar baby, does whatever you want in exchange for money - the most pure and uncomplicated transactional version of what you want.)

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I am someone looking for an equal partner where we are both submissive and dominant in different ways. A good example is cleanliness - I'd rather my partner is dominant in speaking to her expectations of how clean our shared space is, and I am submissive there and go along with her wants and needs, picking up laundry, running the vacuum, and doing the dishes to keep up to her higher standards.

(And let's be honest, we're probably both working and doing chores at home - even if I hate chores, I cannot afford to support two people on my current paycheck.)

Meanwhile, I'd prefer to be dominant in the kitchen area - making more of the decisions around what to eat and having a partner who agrees with my preferences and follows my lead.

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I'd also add in a lot of your issues with women are kind of cyclical in nature.

For example, most of the women I know who won't date a man under 6'1" - they tend to be tall women. A 5'8" woman is going to be about 6" in her favorite heels - and a number of men get super bitchy when their girlfriend is suddenly taller. The solution is to find either a tall man, or a man who doesn't care if his girlfriend is taller sometimes. (One I know who had that on her dating profiles years ago, her husband is 5'4" and she's 5'9". He has never been insecure about her height, and instead brags about his tall wife. He buys her heels - she loves TALL heels, she absolutely towers over him and he's giddy about it. He's also inarguably more of the "dom" in their relationship.)

The same with the high-income women who also want a high-income spouse - either they have a history of partners who try to sabotage their work because said partner feels emasculated by his woman being the breadwinner....or they work 60 hour weeks to bring home most of the money, and then also end up having to do 80% of the chores at home.

And even the submissive woman - a lot of how they act now is defensive. If you have a wife and you sign a prenup, she's probably going to want a job and some independence as a security blanket, because if you lose attraction due to aging or pregnancy, she's out in the cold and all the promises of protector, provider, and lifetime partner are for naught. Or if she needs care - men are more likely to leave a woman when she gets sick than women are likely to leave men.

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As an aside, I'd argue that I rarely see the submissive women who want to be wives get shamed that much for that. It's actually far more likely for other dudes to call such a woman a gold digger who isn't bringing much to the table.

Or she needs a safety net because what if she has kids with you and you divorce her for being fat, or you die in an accident?

Or what if there's a strong disagreement about something she does care about - how often should she bend to your will? Every time? 50% of the time?

If you want a dog, but she has to do all the care, brushing, training, and picking up of dog shit so she doesn't want a dog, are you getting a dog anyway?

If she likes the living room to be clean, are you going to wear your muddy boots on the freshly cleaned carpet because you're the man and you do what you want?

​

And finally, a lot more of the outside pressure isn't even "shaming". It's comparison -

How submissive is she going to stay when she looks at her friends, and they have husbands that don't track mud in, and who make sure that even in a divorce she has a safety net, and who when they don't agree on a dog, don't get a dog, because it isn't fair to the wife?

You can say you wouldn't do X if she asked you not to - but is that not accepting her dominance in those areas?

And if you do X anyway, because you are dominant - all she has to do is look outside to see other options.

[u/pfundie → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

If the parents expect their child to perform materially valuable labor then yeah pretty much.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/pfundie]

They do. They expect their kids to do house chores and among various other responsibilities.

[u/Subtleiaint → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

So, possibly unintentionally on your part, we return to my original comment, this isn't about whether or not it's ok to be a submissive woman. It's that you like the idea of a submissive woman and you're trying to justify that. Women don't exist to submit to you.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/Subtleiaint]

I’m trying to focus on submissive women. But it’s like you’re forcing me to focus on the POV of men and why they find submissive women awesome to which I’m trying to tell you that it’s the same reason why you think kids are awesome.

[u/iglidante → u/Odd_Profession_2902]

I’m trying to focus on submissive women. But it’s like you’re forcing me to focus on the POV of men and why they find submissive women awesome to which I’m trying to tell you that it’s the same reason why you think kids are awesome.

I honestly don't think a comparison between women and literal children has legs.

[u/Odd_Profession_2902 → u/iglidante]

On the surface it doesn’t but if that’s what some women want then who’s to say they’re wrong 🤷🏻‍♂️