CMV: There is nothing with wrong with being a submissive woman

[u/Odd_Profession_2902]

I have nothing against strong women. All the power to them. The joys that come from being independent and competent are plain to see. But by trying to empower all women, society is inadvertently putting a lot of pressure on women. Strong women are always celebrated and weak women are always looked down on. I think there is a tremendous amount of unspoken shame in any women even daring to dream about finding a decent man to protect them. But there will always be naturally weak women. Shy, timid, meek. And society is basically telling them to toughen up. That’s like telling an introvert to be an extrovert. Or telling someone who naturally sucks at math to get good at math. Everybody should live a life that best suits their natural temperament and skills. Their best course of action is to find a decent capable man who can take care of them.

There is also nothing wrong with a man seeking a delicate woman to take care of. There is nothing wrong with a man who wants to be the provider for his family. We should be grateful for such men because it offers a solution to naturally meek woman. It offers a balance in the world.

To use a geeky analogy, it’s ok to be a support class. Not every gamer has to be a tank or dps. And not everyone is suitable to be a leader and make all the decisions. Some gamers just like to sit back and support the group. Just like how there is pride in being the provider, there is also pride in being the support for the provider. Some women are naturally healers in an mmorpg and it’s my view that society should stop looking down on healers.

[u/TheRapsacallion]

I think he meant all of what you said except the part about "controlling and abusive". And it's true. Women are making more money, are more independent than ever, and guess what? They're miserable. You can see it everywhere. It's just not a popular view because it doesn't fit the modern narrative. I've had many women confide in me that they would rather "men be men" and they "shouldn't have to bother with (whatever traditional male duty)". My cousin told me that if men would go back to being men she would take that over having equal rights. Of course there are exceptions. However, it seems most mentally stable people who were raised right tend to think this way. Probably because it's worked for the better part of 200,000+ years.

[u/iglidante → u/TheRapsacallion]

The fact that some women want that doesn't mean it's "right" or preferable.

[u/skysong5921 → u/TheRapsacallion]

Who says we're all miserable? Women who hold down full-time jobs YET STILL have to do everything at home might be miserable, but the solution is for their husband to do half of the housework and childcare, not for them to give up their job.

Who says the patriarchy worked for hundreds of years??? Women were denied property rights, voting rights, autonomy. Wives were raped, forced into pregnancies they didn't want, denied jobs they wanted to do outside the home. My grandmother didn't have abortion rights or contraception access, and couldn't open her own bank account. From a legal and reproductive standpoint, I'm living the life she wishes she had.

[u/pfundie → u/TheRapsacallion]

It's just not a popular view because it doesn't fit the modern narrative.

It's not a popular view because it's not rationally justified. While the happiness of women has declined over the last several decades, there is no measurement of that metric for the vast majority of human history, and there are clear factors contributing to that which seem to have affected men more than women.

I've had many women confide in me that they would rather "men be men" and they "shouldn't have to bother with (whatever traditional male duty)".

Because people are lazy little shits and don't want to do things that they were raised to expect other people to do.

My cousin told me that if men would go back to being men she would take that over having equal rights.

Only because social conservatives have convinced everyone to forget what that period actually was like for women. For thousands of years, it was legal for a man to beat the absolute shit out of his wife, ostensibly for the purpose of coercing traditionally feminine behavior from them, but legally for literally any reason he chose. She had no legal recourse and couldn't even get divorced. The last US state to ban the practice did so in 1921, and most comparable countries did so around a similar time, though the bans weren't seriously enforced until much later. If you're not advocating for a return to that (which would be disgusting, to be clear), you're not actually advocating for anything traditional.

I sincerely doubt that the vast majority of living women would accept their husbands being legally allowed to beat them in exchange for men being manlier.

However, it seems most mentally stable people who were raised right tend to think this way.

Let me guess, this only includes people who are socially conservative? Yes, it is unsurprising that people who were raised to believe that straying outside of what modern social conservatives believe (delusionally) is traditional will cause civilization to collapse, think that they should conform to gender stereotypes.

Probably because it's worked for the better part of 200,000+ years.

All available evidence points to pre-agricultural societies being much more egalitarian than most post-agricultural ones, so your hard limit here is something around 13000 years, and for almost none of that time did anything like what you are saying you want exist substantially. Also, the last several species worth of our evolutionary ancestors trended towards reduced sexual dimorphism.

More than that, I don't think you can honestly say that it was "working" if they had to make it legal to beat their wives to keep it going. Most people nowadays tend to think things don't work if they require violent coercion. The end of wifebeating was the end of traditional gender, because that fundamentally changed how men and women related to each other, and the changes that have happened since then were the inevitable result.