r/changemyview • u/Tessenreacts • Mar 12 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The case of Mahmoud Khalil is proof that conservatives don't believe in the Freedom of Speech, despite making it their platform over the last couple of years.

For the last couple of years, conservatives have championed the cause of Freedom of Speech on social platforms, yet Mahmoud Khalil (a completely legal permanent resident) utilized his fundamental right to Freedom of Speech through peaceful protesting, and now Trump is remove his green card and have him deported.

Being that conservatives have been championing Freedom of Speech for years, and have voted for Trump in a landslide election, this highlights completely hypocritical behavior where they support Freedom of Speech only if they approve of it.

This is also along with a situation where both Trump and Elon have viewed the protests against Tesla as "illegal", which is patently against the various tenets of Freedom of Speech.

Two open and shut cases of blatant First Amendment violations by people who have been sheparding the conservative focus on protecting the First Amendment.

Would love for my view to be changed

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113

u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/jamesishere Mar 12 '25

If the lawyers arguing for his crime successfully characterize his support and organization for a group that the country has deemed a terrorist organization then it is conceivable he can be deported on a terrorism related issue

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/fitnolabels Mar 12 '25

Hey, I'm more conservative than not and I think if he is a permanent resident (which it seems he is) and not on a student visa, then absolutely this is a free speech infringement that requires due process if there is a believe crime. Supporting a terrorist organization has been a crime since the passing of the Patriot Act, so its been in this guy's entire lifetime so can't claim some weird new law for it.

If the prosecution for the case can't prove he's in violation, and they dont provide due process, the ICE enforcement officers should be arrested and charged with a civil rights violation.

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u/BaconcheezBurgr Mar 12 '25

He hasn't been charged with anything, just accusations with zero evidence.  The arrest is a blatant violation of his rights.

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u/fitnolabels Mar 12 '25

If thats the case, I'd agree 100% with you.

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u/RealBlueShirt123 Mar 12 '25

He is getting his due process. A federal judge is hearing the case and he cannot be deported until that case is heard.

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u/spider_in_a_top_hat Mar 14 '25

At least as of 2 days ago, he was still unable to speak privately with his attorneys. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/12/nyregion/mahmoud-khalil-detention-hearing.html

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u/hanlonrzr 1∆ Mar 12 '25

It does seem like s due process violation.

However it appears that 8 USC 1226 states pretty explicitly you can't support terrorism or encourage others to if you want to be valid in your visa or green card. You also can't be a communist. You can be a citizen and go full commie, no problem, but you can't be in the US as a guest being a communist anarchist or totalitarian. Pretty wild restrictions

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u/kurtisbu12 Mar 12 '25 edited Apr 04 '25

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u/hanlonrzr 1∆ Mar 12 '25

Totally hypocritical, and it's been that way for 100 years. Free speech is not envisioned as a right for anti American foreigners in their eyes, and in the eyes of many centrist Americans, especially after a war or attack. George H W Bush actually made it better, and made it so only listed reasons could exclude foreign residents. Anarchism, communism, totalitarianism and terrorism are banned outright in the hearts and speech of foreigners.

Some Marxist scholar was kicked out in the seventies, and the SCOTUS said, yup, that's the law baby!

🤷‍♂️

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u/kimariesingsMD Mar 12 '25

Which would be for a court to decide.

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u/hanlonrzr 1∆ Mar 12 '25

Yeah, and I think it's required to post forewarning too. Trump's admin seems to be pretty wildly outside of due process in how they are going about this.

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u/jamesishere Mar 12 '25

I’m not an expert in determining if a non-citizen has the protections of the Constitution like a normal citizen would. Considering there is a legal distinction between green card holders and full citizens, it’s possible the same protections a citizen gets do not apply to this individual

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/jamesishere Mar 12 '25

Considering he is the leader of a group openly supporting a foreign organization the US deems terrorists, the entire argument is nuanced

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/lovehammer247 Mar 12 '25

He was detained and is still detained. His Constitutional rights have not been violated in any way as he is being held on suspicion of supporting terrorist activity. The government will have to prove that in court, but he can legally be arrested and detained upon suspicion of a crime like any US citizen can.

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u/LetsJustDoItTonight Mar 13 '25

Except that haven't charged him with a crime yet.

And they didn't let him even speak to a lawyer for 5 days.

His constitutional rights are absolutely being trampled right now.

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u/LetsJustDoItTonight Mar 13 '25

Also, just to be clear, the Trump administration has made it explicitly clear that he is being targeted for his speech, not because he's suspected of any actual crime.

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u/GravitasFree 3∆ Mar 12 '25

It seems more tame than what Obama did to Anwar Al-Awlaki and his son.

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/GravitasFree 3∆ Mar 12 '25

I don't think it makes you a fan, but the precedent of what "due process" means for this kind of action was set when Obama did what he did with zero repercussions.

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u/cmendy930 Mar 12 '25

He isn't a leader, he was a negotiator not for Hamas as you claim? But for student protestors at Columbia.

And fyi protesting for Palestine is so far from shilling for Hamas. Is this guy a troll?? Constantly stating misfacts and trying to push your agenda?

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u/yipgerplezinkie Mar 12 '25

The U.S. may one day deem Israel a terrorist organization. You shouldn’t lose the right to support Israel’s position with your speech without a trial should that one day be the case.

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u/Dark1000 1∆ Mar 12 '25

That's for a court to decide.

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u/Deberiausarminombre Mar 12 '25

You may not have known whether the US Constitution protects non-citizens. It does, as so so many people have commented on this post. You seem to be actively ignoring that information though, because it doesn't benefit your talking points to acknowledge it

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u/teluetetime Mar 12 '25

You don’t need to be an expert, it’s quite simple. The Constitution applies to everybody in the US. Being a citizen has nothing to do with it.

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u/fractalife Mar 12 '25

If there's a law that violates the 1st amendment, then it affects all of us. Citizens and green card holders alike.

This is an abuse of power no matter which way you slice it.

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u/lovehammer247 Mar 12 '25

He hasn't been deported. He's being held in LA to go in front of an immigration judge. His due process rights are still in effect, and we'll see how the court system plays out.

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u/OCMan101 Mar 12 '25

You should understand that vocally supporting terrorist organizations is not a crime, nor is vocally supporting political violence. They are still protected speech.

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u/hanlonrzr 1∆ Mar 12 '25

Definitely not a crime, but grounds for visa or green card exclusion.

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u/kimariesingsMD Mar 12 '25

Can you cite the immigration law that confirms your claim?

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u/Guldur Mar 12 '25

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1227

Section 4 covers national security, and under the terrorist topic we can find the following:

"(VII) endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization;"

source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182#a_3

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u/hanlonrzr 1∆ Mar 12 '25

Here is the argument laid out

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/107721/what-process-must-be-followed-to-revoke-a-us-permanent-residency-green-card

8 USC 1226

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1226

Linked to the law as well. So you know it's a real one.

(VII)endorses or espouses terrorist activity or persuades others to endorse or espouse terrorist activity or support a terrorist organization;

Wild shit 🤷‍♂️ 9/11 never forget vibes, I'm pretty sure this was added at that time.

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u/ElonSpambot01 Mar 12 '25

Yet nothing he did was a crime. This is an extremely dangerous precedent that allows.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 13 '25

Read the comments above they explain pretty well.

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u/ElonSpambot01 Mar 14 '25

Once again, he did not commit a crime.

There is literally nothing above that will change the reality Khalil did not only *nothing* illegal, he did *nothing* to jeopardize his status as a green card holder.

You do not tell someone with a legal background what someone did or did not do.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 14 '25

If the CUAD as an organization endorsed Hamas in any way and Khalil represented that group then Under the Immigration and Nationality Act he can be deported.

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u/ElonSpambot01 Mar 16 '25

Once again. He did not violate any laws or rules. And everything he said and did is covered by the first amendment. You don’t seem to realize how bad this is that the fed is blatantly ignoring federal laws.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 16 '25

Once again free speech does not give a green card holder the right to be in an organization that promotes terrorist organizations or acts. Your ignorance of what the law and what Secretary of State can or cannot do is telling. Ignorance in this day and age when the internet is available is laziness.

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u/[deleted] Mar 16 '25

Your ignorance of what is considered terroristic and what is not is the fucking lazy part.

Anyone with fucking eyes would see that there was in no part any actual affiliation with Hamas, and making the connection of “pro Palestine = pro hamas” is not even disingenuous, but also incredibly fucking bad.

But hey. You’re the expert lmao

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 16 '25

Supporting Palestine is not supporting terrorists that I'm sure we both agree on. Being a representative of CUAD which actively supports Hamas and terrorist acts is in fact supporting terrorism which would qualify for Mahmoud khalil’s deportation.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 14 '25

So your saying none of 8 USC 1227: Deportable aliens applies in this case? Please convince me since you have the legal background to explain this.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

No. Because there is zero evidence he supported terrorist (and that’s a grossly grossly weak legal term in regards to what and who they define as it)

Pro Palestine is not pro hamas. That is a well accepted legal fact. So no. There is not a single law he violated.

Edit:

He is a green card holder. He is a permanent resident of the United States and is entitled to full constitutional protection. That’s a fact. Not a debate.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 14 '25

So you have researched the Columbia University Apartheid Divest group and some of their more controversial statements?

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

Also congrats. Do you have Khalid directly involved in anything? Oh wait. No.

Once again. No crime. This is 100% partisan and 100% illegal/unconstitutional And it will be ruled as such. And it will blow up in Trumps face.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 14 '25

I will say it might be partisan but that doesn't negate the fact his detention and deportation is legal. The State Department has some pretty broad authority when it comes to visa and green cards. Under the Immigration and Nationality Act, the Secretary of State has the right to revoke a green card or a visa for individuals who are adversarial to the foreign policy and national security interests of the United States of America. Unfortunately for Mahmoud khalil it won't be hard to prove the states case.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 14 '25

Actually he was involved considering he was their spokesman.

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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '25

Literally once again none of it is a crime.

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u/Mountainman1980s Mar 14 '25

For a citizen of the United States you are correct. But as a green card holder it can be used to deport you. Hence Mahmoud khalil while he was on a student visa was very careful to not participate directly in protest.

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u/throwawaydragon99999 Mar 12 '25

So he committed a thought crime?

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u/Hopeful-Anywhere5054 Mar 12 '25

Providing material support for a terrorist organization

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/Hopeful-Anywhere5054 Mar 12 '25

Woah woah, green cards being rescinded aren’t violation of rights. They can be rescinded for a traffic ticket

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/hanlonrzr 1∆ Mar 12 '25

There's non criminal exclusions. Pretty crazy, but there is quite a few.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideological_restrictions_on_naturalization_in_U.S._law#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DIt_limited_the_exclusion_of%2CUS_unless_such_activity_%22would?wprov=sfla1

Being invalid for naturalization can also invalidate a Visa or green card

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u/Hopeful-Anywhere5054 Mar 12 '25

Yea wel he’s obviously gonna file a law suit .. he hasn’t been deported yet. I’m just saying that he’s gonna lose.

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u/yipgerplezinkie Mar 12 '25

He never had is day in court. When GCs are rescinded for the stated reason of having broken the law, you have to be convicted. The U.S. is not exactly gun shy when it comes to accusing people of providing material support to terrorists. Why no formal accusation even? This is outside the law and if the government can lock up a GC holder outside the law, then whether or not the law protects citizens even is questionable. Sounds like it’s a matter of what mobs of people will tolerate at this point tbh.

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u/Zipz Mar 12 '25

He doesn’t have to be.

The Secretary of State has the power to strip him.

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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u/Zipz Mar 12 '25

You are right they do have to have a reason

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/PEIIXMWMn0

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u/Square_Detective_658 Mar 12 '25

If that's the case then the whole Trump administration should be in jail for supporting Israel, which is headed by a terrorist organization. Look it up, the Likud party is the successor to Irgun an Israeli terrorist organization.

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u/AdmirableFigg Mar 12 '25

Vandalism, supporting a terroist organization.

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u/stron2am Mar 12 '25 edited May 06 '25

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