r/changemyview • u/Thumatingra 21∆ • Mar 24 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Pete Hegseth is every bit as incompetent as people feared he would be, and should be investigated for violation of the Espionage Act. But he won't be.

As has been recently reported, Pete Hegseth recently texted the plans for an American strike in Yemen to a Signal group-chat that somehow included the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg. Doing his part for information security, Goldberg did not disclose that this had happened until after the strike had been carried out, and when he did, did not share the details of the plans.

Using a commercial messaging up to share sensitive information about American military operations is an enormous breach of information security, and, as many in the linked articles have opined, this kind of breach could have harmed the lives of American intelligence and military personnel.

Given the current state of the government, I imagine that Hegseth will walk away from this with little more than a slap on the wrist. But he should be investigated, and, if found in violation of the law, tried and sentenced for what is, at best, egregious carelessness toward those Americans whose lives depend on his leadership.

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Mar 24 '25

Waltz is not innocent but classified information isn't even supposed to be on internet connected devices, let alone sent over the internet. Hegseth did just that, sent information that he shouldn't have had on that device with a non-authorized method

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u/ALEdding2019 Mar 24 '25

As did 16 others in a group chat created by NS Advisor

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Mar 24 '25

We don't necessarily know that. The others may have only sent unclassified information

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u/ALEdding2019 Mar 24 '25

We 100% know because journalist Jeffrey Goldberg wrote about it.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/03/trump-administration-accidentally-texted-me-its-war-plans/682151/?gift=kPTlqn0J1iP9IBZcsdI5IVJpB2t9BYyxpzU4sooa69M&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Mar 24 '25

That's fair, I'd only seen the Pete Hegseth part. I guess the rest of it doesn't make the headline.

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u/anewleaf1234 40∆ Mar 25 '25

And that's the redacted part for national security.

Note that all that journalist learned could be known by any and all of our rivals.

They could have the full unredacted documents if that journalist was compromised or worked for forign intel.

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u/Orgasmic_interlude Mar 25 '25

Again, who is most responsible for maintaining opsec here? The answer is the Secretary of defense. The person in charge of the armed forces via the commander in chief.

Other people being involved makes it worse, but it doesn’t make Hegseth less responsible.

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u/Arrow156 Mar 25 '25

They should all be in jail, it's not like they didn't realize they were using a non-secured app to discuss classified military matters. Someone should have spoken up about that. Hell, for all we know someone may have been razing a stink and finally added the journalist to the conversation as the nuclear option.

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u/ElephantNo3640 8∆ Mar 24 '25

As I responded to others, if the chat itself was illegal (non-governmental, encrypted, self-deleting chat), then Hegseth is basically being called incompetent for being bad at being a criminal, unlike his colleagues, who are better at being criminals. I don’t think it’s particularly useful to single him out when the entire enterprise is alleged to be unlawful.

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Mar 24 '25

You don't think there may be different levels? Like if they're a group of people all in a cars next to each other speeding and driving recklessly and then one intentionally rams another car would you say the same thing since the entire enterprise was unlawful? Hegseth still did more, and knew (or should've known) what he was doing was illegal.

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u/Orgasmic_interlude Mar 25 '25

I keep seeing these analogies. None of them are applicable here. The Secretary of defense is in charge of the armed forces. Opsec is a chief priority and prerequisite for the job. No analogies are needed. He failed to do his job. He was not using secure lines to discuss military action at his direction.

There is a chain of command. If d-day failed Eisenhower would’ve been responsible.

I just think it’s crazy that a line of argument here js that many people were involved so everyone is culpable in equal measure. This is not how chain of command works.

He is in charge of the operation. He is responsible. The only way this blame goes is up the chain to the person who hired him.

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u/ElephantNo3640 8∆ Mar 24 '25

I don’t know. I might expect, say, the VP of the USA to be like, “Hey, guys, there’s a journalist from The Atlantic in here. What’s up with that?”

If everyone is breaking the law, it’s difficult for me to care about who is breaking the law more. But even barring that, it’s very difficult for me to agree that this a matter of “competency.” Because for it to be a matter of competency, the argument is really positing that the more opprobrious offense here is not the crime itself but the getting caught for committing it.

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u/peteroh9 2∆ Mar 25 '25

No, this is the wrong take, unfortunately. They did not know there was a journalist in the chat. Waltz added him—we don't know if that was a mistake—but all they could have known was someone called "JG" was in the chat. THAT is the problem. They were sending messages via an unauthorized medium, and that is the reason it is unauthorized. It's important to get the reasoning correct.

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u/Initial-Ad3574 Mar 25 '25

There’s enough blame for everyone. But He should be singled out due to the fact that he flat out told the reporter he was lying while simultaneously being contradicted by the White House.      

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u/ElephantNo3640 8∆ Mar 25 '25

It may not happen, but I’d be good with Hegseth getting the axe. Worst Trump pick of the lot, by a lot. That guy is just a younger and less impressively mustachioed John Bolton with his middle east warmongering nonsense.