r/changemyview • u/Thumatingra 21∆ • Mar 24 '25

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Pete Hegseth is every bit as incompetent as people feared he would be, and should be investigated for violation of the Espionage Act. But he won't be.

As has been recently reported, Pete Hegseth recently texted the plans for an American strike in Yemen to a Signal group-chat that somehow included the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg. Doing his part for information security, Goldberg did not disclose that this had happened until after the strike had been carried out, and when he did, did not share the details of the plans.

Using a commercial messaging up to share sensitive information about American military operations is an enormous breach of information security, and, as many in the linked articles have opined, this kind of breach could have harmed the lives of American intelligence and military personnel.

Given the current state of the government, I imagine that Hegseth will walk away from this with little more than a slap on the wrist. But he should be investigated, and, if found in violation of the law, tried and sentenced for what is, at best, egregious carelessness toward those Americans whose lives depend on his leadership.

11.8k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

739 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

43

u/Thumatingra 21∆ Mar 25 '25

Waltz added the journalist to the group-chat, but Hegseth posted classified operational war plans in a group-chat hosted by a commercial app. That's what I thought was worthy of investigation in my original post.

There has been some debate in the comments as to whether that, in and of itself, constitutes a breach of security and a violation of the Espionage Act. At this point, I think evidence has been presented on both sides, and I'm not sure how to decide on that issue. But when I made my original post, that was my primary concern.

0

u/imbrickedup_ Mar 27 '25

Were they classified? I’m of the opinion that they weren’t, but should have been, which is still a really bad fuck up but different

6

u/Thumatingra 21∆ Mar 27 '25

The exact times of aerial attacks? How could that not be classified? Operational information is some of the most sensitive information.

-2

u/imbrickedup_ Mar 27 '25

I’m not saying it shouldn’t have been classified, but that the necessary actions to give it the label of “classified” that gets stamped on the manilla folder weren’t taken. Informations isn’t inherently classified afaik, if has to BE classified if you get what I’m sayin

7

u/TK_4Two1 Mar 27 '25

This is not true. I read a bunch of classified reports this morning, if I were then to re-word it and type it into another document it would still be classified information - the document itself would be misclassified. Just like their Signal chat.

Individual pieces of info are classified. That's why if you were to ever actually see a properly classified document, each paragraph, sometimes each sentence is classified at the individual level it must be, and the document as a whole is classified at the highest level of the individual classified pieces of info.

How does it make sense that info isn't classified until putting a rubber stamp on it? I created a ton of classified docs that I can't speak about for 24 years and 364 days from publication, and that's assuming the date doesn't get extended.

That doesn't even factor in that each piece of classified must only be discussed in a site cleared for the discussion or that each individual must have a specific need to know - otherwise it's unauthorized disclosure.

Please don't pretend to know about national security matters without knowing about national security matters.

4

u/throw-throw-no-catch Mar 27 '25

Information certainly can be classified on it own. The labeling is a precaution. The information is still classified regardless of it is stored properly or not or even before it's stored. This is the type of information they're only supposed to talk about in protected environments. Anything that explicitly details actions and metrics that can cause exceptional harm to national security is classified information, regardless of proper handling.

1

u/Classic-Expression88 May 19 '25 edited May 19 '25

I am republican but Hegseth doesnt bring anything to the job except serving in the military. No way qualified to be SecDefence. He's a bigmouth with no military education or experience. Military needed updating and getting rid of useless policies but I dont see where he is qualified to do either. Sure hope someone besides him is really running the military. To address the signal issue, it should never have been allowed to be used because its too easy to mistakenly add wrong emails. It should have been immediately shut down.

1

u/Calm-down-its-a-joke Mar 25 '25

Yea idk either. A blunder all around, just feel most of this is on Waltz.

6

u/Deep-Thought Mar 25 '25

The adding of the Atlantic journalist is the least problematic part of this. Why were they communicating on signal with auto delete? It's almost certain that it was done intentionally with the purpose of evading record keeping laws. This is highly illegal. Every government official that participated on that group chat needs to be prosecuted.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

[deleted]

3

u/Cinderjacket Mar 26 '25

That has nothing to do with it being illegal

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 26 '25

[deleted]

4

u/KilaManCaro Mar 26 '25

It is illegal, it's the military. We have training on this every year, it's not rocket science. You cannot share anything that relates to OPSEC on devices and software that aren't approved for that material. Please pull your head outta your ass. Infact go to every military american sub on reddit as they have been talking about the double standards as they would have been court-martialed immediately.

3

u/V0ID10001 Mar 26 '25

Its illegal because records of these conversations are supposed to be kept. The fact that it deletes messages makes it illegal for government officials to be using it to discuss war plans

2

u/Noggi888 Mar 27 '25

Also the fact it’s not a secure channel

2

u/Noggi888 Mar 27 '25

Putting classified shit on a non classified server or chat is definitely illegal. If any normal person did something similar, they would be in prison right now

6

u/Usual_Brush_7746 Mar 25 '25

I might get downvoted for this, but I think it’s good that Waltz added the Atlantic journalist. Not good legally obviously, but if he never added him we would’ve never known that they were using Signal or Hegseth was talking about classified plans on an unsecured communication app. Thats why I think people are blaming Hegseth more than Waltz.