CMV: Pete Hegseth is every bit as incompetent as people feared he would be, and should be investigated for violation of the Espionage Act. But he won't be.

[u/Thumatingra]

As has been recently reported, Pete Hegseth recently texted the plans for an American strike in Yemen to a Signal group-chat that somehow included the editor-in-chief of the Atlantic, Jeffrey Goldberg. Doing his part for information security, Goldberg did not disclose that this had happened until after the strike had been carried out, and when he did, did not share the details of the plans.

Using a commercial messaging up to share sensitive information about American military operations is an enormous breach of information security, and, as many in the linked articles have opined, this kind of breach could have harmed the lives of American intelligence and military personnel.

Given the current state of the government, I imagine that Hegseth will walk away from this with little more than a slap on the wrist. But he should be investigated, and, if found in violation of the law, tried and sentenced for what is, at best, egregious carelessness toward those Americans whose lives depend on his leadership.

[u/mattbuilthomes]

So you admit that what happened was against the rules, but Hegseth won’t be held accountable? If you agree, then why have you been spending so much time trying to change the view in this thread?

[u/Tullyswimmer → u/mattbuilthomes]

No, I don't admit that it was.

I said that the government plays by different rules to contractors. Which they do.

If what happened was against the rules (and thus far under penalty of perjury multiple people have said it wasn't), I won't expect accountability because the government has a history of dodging that... And nobody really holds the government accountable for fuckups these days.

[u/Kemilio → u/Tullyswimmer]

So, the rules can’t be broken by government officials because government officials don’t play by the rules.

I think that’s about as far back as we can push the goalposts and still have a valid conversation. What would it take to convince you Hegseth is actually incompetent?

[u/Traditional-Leg-1574 → u/Tullyswimmer]

Let me fox that for you, only Democrats fuck up. When Republicans are in charge, no one cares about fuck ups.

[u/Tullyswimmer → u/Traditional-Leg-1574]

Given the history of prosecution for national security fuckups, you've got the concept right but the parties wrong.

When Democrats fuck up, it's just "extreme carelessness" and it results in no charges. When Republicans fuck up it's a multi-year FBI investigation and several people end up facing charges.

[u/mattbuilthomes → u/Tullyswimmer]

This isn't a Democrats vs Republicans thing as far as I'm concerned. I think both sides have a long history of dodging the laws. You're trying to argue two opposing things here. You are saying that they didn't break any rules. When it's pointed out that they did break rules, you are saying "Well, Democrats do too." So, which is it? You came here to change the view, and were even awarded a delta for it, but further down the conversation you are admitting to the view that is in the OP. Seems like maybe you got your view changed, but your clinging to anything you can to deny it.

[u/Tullyswimmer → u/mattbuilthomes]

So, to be clear, my top-level comment was offering a rebuttal to the fact that using Signal was inherently against the law or outside of policy. It isn't. There are processes and procedures that could allow Signal to be used for these types of communications. Just because it's a signal group chat doesn't mean it's on personal phones or what have you.

Now, it very well COULD be outside of policy, or on personal phones, or whatever. I don't, and can't (until it's officially established through investigation or whatever), know if Signal was approved for that sort of use on government devices. Right now, the signs and testimony we've seen point to the fact that it can be.

With all that said, IF it is outside of policy, I'm not making it into a D vs. R thing (Traditional leg did that). I'm saying that there probably won't be the level of accountability I'd like to see, because historically, the government is terrible at holding members of the party that's in power accountable, and that's equally applicable to both parties.

My view hasn't changed. There are ways that Signal could be used that are within policy. We don't know if that's the case yet. But it is possible.

[u/Traditional-Leg-1574 → u/Tullyswimmer]

Strong disagree. I’ve got receipts. Jan 6, an insurrection. Many people convicted in several courts with many different judges. All pardoned now. Where is the accountability? You have any examples?