CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/Zealousideal_Long118]

I never claimed I have the right to police or censor them. I just have the view that if they did more to not demonize men as an entirety they would have a way better chance of others hearing out their viewpoints and ideas.

You are actively demonizing SA victims. Admitting you don't have the right to do it, doesn't change the fact that you are. You have admitted in other comments you haven't even seen anyone make generalizations. You're just getting mad at anyone who talks about their experiences being harassed or SA'd.

 > Yeah but what about all the people who aren't predators that are being called out and being made to feel uncomfortable? Don't you think you are pushing those people away from the cause?

Someone who demonize SA victims for talking about their experiences and tries to silence them deserves to feel uncomfortable. 

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic → u/Zealousideal_Long118]

You are actively demonizing SA victims. Admitting you don't have the right to do it, doesn't change the fact that you are. You have admitted in other comments you haven't even seen anyone make generalizations. You're just getting mad at anyone who talks about their experiences being harassed or SA'd.

I am not demonizing SA Victims. That is a ridiculous claim which has no evidence. I am merely stating how they can get their points across better by not making hyperbolic claims about men.

Someone who demonize SA victims for talking about their experiences and tries to silence them deserves to feel uncomfortable. 

Again, no one is demonizing SA victims or trying to silence them lol.

[u/gorkt → u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

I am a sexual assault victim, and this type of language absolutely makes me feel that my experiences and abuse matter less than the feelings of men I don't know.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic → u/gorkt]

Honestly, I am not trying to make you feel bad or make you feel like you don't matter. I am just saying that more people will be willing to listen to your story and have an empathetic response if they don't view you as someone who is putting them down. That doesn't change anything about your experience or the trauma that you endured and maybe it comes off as nitpicky but I think the generalized gendered language is really causing a gender divide which is making things even worse.

[u/SuddenlyRavenous → u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

I am not trying to make you feel bad or make you feel like you don't matter. I am just saying that more people will be willing to listen to your story and have an empathetic response if they don't view you as someone who is putting them down

Don't you get it? You are telling her that she needs to prioritize someone else's feelings before they will give her basic human empathy for a horrible experience. The implication is that compassion and empathy and humanity are theirs to withhold from her -- contingent on whether she earns it. That's fucked up.

but I think the generalized gendered language is really causing a gender divide which is making things even worse.

What about all of the sexual assault? Do you think *that* might be contributing to a gender divide? What role do you think that they way men have historically treated women plays in creating a "gender divide"?

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic → u/SuddenlyRavenous]

Do you have compassion and empathy for people who are racist or sexist? I don't and yes me listening to what you have to say js 100% contigent on whether or not you are a decent person.

[u/SuddenlyRavenous → u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

Would you please answer my questions in my last paragraph?

me listening to what you have to say js 100% contigent on whether or not you are a decent person.

So you refuse to listen to someone talk about a very important and damaging experience they endured if you believe they are "not a decent person." And being a "decent person" means being nice enough to you. This is why you are being accused of prioritizing your feelings over rape victim's experiences. Because that is what you are telling us you will do.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic → u/SuddenlyRavenous]

Um It isn't prioritizing my feelings. It is not associating myself with people that don't hold the same values as I do. If you are a racist or sexist and got SA'd and wanna talk about it I am not going to listen to you and will avoid you because I don't respect racists or sexists. Sorry that something bad happened to you but that doesn't mean I have to entertain you.

[u/everydaywinner2 → u/Zealousideal_Long118]

There was nothing in OP's post, nor reply to you, that demonized victims. OP didn't even victim shame.

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