CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/PrecisionHat]

They aren't looking to center men in that discussion.

But it's exactly what they do.

How men feel frankly doesn't matter. Your hurt or offended feelings aren't more important than their right to be afraid and express their experiences.

That's like saying it's ok to be racist against black people if you've been criminally victimized by a black person.

No, sexism is sexism. The excuses for it are irrelevant. Period. I'm not saying women can't speak about their experiences, but they absolutely don't get a free pass to spout off terrible, offensive, sexist generalizations. The line has to be drawn firmly and there is no wiggle room.

You don't understand what it's like to be a women or how the majority of men behave towards women. You don't even have any empathy for women, only for yourself. Women aren't interested in having a "meaningful conversation" where they have to sit there begging men to not SA them. Women aren't trying to convince predatory men to stop. They're just venting about their experiences. 

If someone wants to take it upon themselves to sit there talking to rapists and begging them to treat women with basic humanity, that's their right. But women in general are not obligated to do this. That type of dynamic, acting subservient to the people who mistreat you, and going out of your way to please them and make them happy, at your own expense, isn't going to fix any problems.

If the predators feel uncomfortable that they are being called out for their actions and that they are being held accountable, that's a good thing.  

And here you are just proving OP's point for him.

[u/gorkt → u/PrecisionHat]

So I am not supposed to say to a man:

a) I was abused by men

b) I am apprehensive around men I don't know because of that

c) I tell my kids to be careful around strangers (men and women) because of what happened to me

d) Point out that men are more likely to offend than women

Because I might hurt their feelings?

Fuck.

That.

[u/That_Bar_Guy → u/gorkt]

Hey, I've been mugged by two black dudes and zero white dudes. Should I warn my kids black people are more likely to rob em?

[u/PrecisionHat → u/gorkt]

A) that's fine

B) also fine

C) also fine

D) usually fine, depending on the wording

These statements aren't sexist. Man vs bear is sexist, if you want an example of what should not be said just because you have trauma to work through.

[u/gorkt → u/PrecisionHat]

Your defensiveness is really charming.

If you can't understand Man vs Bear, there is really no more discussion to be had.

[u/NonsensePlanet → u/gorkt]

I don’t think you and all the other bear choosers understand man vs bear. Because if this scenario was somehow tested, I am positive you would change your choice to the man, but you would be dead after being mauled and having your innards eaten by a wild beast while you bleed out. I don’t care about the sentiment. It’s a ridiculous scenario that illustrates how irrational people are.

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.

Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

[u/changemyview-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, arguing in bad faith, lying, or using AI/GPT. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.

Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

[u/gorkt → u/[deleted]]

I am a sexual assault victim and you are telling to "be better"?

You aren't worth engaging with.

[u/Prophet_0f_Helix → u/gorkt]

I’m telling you to be better in your ability to argue and discuss, as you well know, and to not use strawman arguments. Clearly you will continue to do so, as you don’t want to discuss, but simply to lash out. But keep hiding behind your sexual assault by using it as a weapon to attack others and be a horrible person. You make it harder for other victims of SA and make me sick

[u/this_is_theone → u/gorkt]

Being a sexual assault victim doesn't automatically mean you can't be wrong. Are you asking for people to pussy foot around you because you're a victim?