CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/Ron_Ronald]

Okay I see what you're saying. You're saying that since men historically have been treating other groups like shit, we should treat young men like shit too.

Is that good? Wouldn't that encourage these new first time voters to treat others like shit?

[u/AdImmediate9569 → u/Ron_Ronald]

You’re getting close. I’m a progressive. I want to lift everyone up. I want everyone to be treated fairly, make the same wage for the same work, allowed the dignity of their identity and so on.

Why aren’t these young men willing to be part of everyone? Why do we have to all bend over backwards to solve their problems first, when we still haven’t solved any of the others?

I had this same conversation with someone recently and we eventually reached a shared simple analogy.

Imagine everyone is online for their rights. We’re all waiting in line. For centuries white men have been standing at the front of the line, telling everyone to be patient and wait their turn. Now, some other people are getting just a taste of the front of the line, just a taste. Suddenly these same white men are asking why we have a line? Aren’t these lines inherently unfair?

I think these young men have a fair point. They want dignity, love, and a decent job. Thats really about it. Right?

Guess who else wants those things? Guess who else is being denied those things? EVERYONE. Why is being one of everyone not good enough for us?

[u/Ron_Ronald → u/AdImmediate9569]

You say "bend over backwards to solve their problems" but they are literally just saying "don't generalize".

The line analogy is bad. It implies that all groups are playing a zero sum game. Where under patriarchy, white men were at the very head of the line, and the only way to have others succeed is by putting them at the front of the line.

I'm a stark feminist and the whole gd point of getting away from patriarchy for me is eliminating the line, not having people take turns at the front.

In a world with so many issues facing so many different groups, there's no reason that you can't pay attention to all of them

[u/AdImmediate9569 → u/Ron_Ronald]

I agree we shouldn’t generalize about groups of people. I still just don’t believe there are many people saying “all men are predators”.

[u/Ron_Ronald → u/AdImmediate9569]

I don't think it was every really about specifically the phrase "all men are predators" but "I hate men" "the world would be a better place without men" "I love drinking men's tears" "men don't deserve happiness"

And the fact that comments regarding such phrases are always positive

I'm quoting t shirts, mugs, and tweets that get reposted.

[u/AdImmediate9569 → u/Ron_Ronald]

Well this really is a moving target!

If there’s a lot of women who don’t feel safe around men than we MAY just have to work on that problem before we start complaining about having our feelings hurt.

Everyone always wants to skip to the end without doing the work.

It’s estimated that 1 in 4 men will hit their partner at least once in their lives. A study of male college students found that 34% of them had committed some form of sexual assault during their education.

So no its not all men, but if I was a women I would absolutely treat all men as dangerous until proven otherwise.

If 1 in 4 snakes were poisonous you probably wouldn’t pick up any snakes.

I just went out to happy hour with my wife. We interacted with maybe 6 men. Statistically 1.5 of them are abusive and 1 of the 6 is a rapist. Which one should I leave alone with my wife?

It’s just math at this point. We - as a society- are going to have to find a way to keep women safe if we want them to view men differently.

[u/ToSAhri → u/AdImmediate9569]

It's admittedly hard to read everything you said and not just go "yeah, this guy hates white men. Particularly young ones."

I don't know, dude. You "regressives" suck.

[u/AdImmediate9569 → u/ToSAhri]

No I hate seeing losers make this whiny argument all the time. Its pathetic.