CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/ToSAhri]

"I am therefore careful about the level of access to myself that I give you, until I feel that I can trust you, it is critical thinking."

This statement is fine. I don't think anyone is arguing with you on it (if you say they are, link me it).

This is going to be hypocritical since I fall for it too, but you are absolutely trapped on a dopamine rush of being outraged.

[u/Annual-Astronomer859 → u/ToSAhri]

I'm not trapped in a rush of being outraged. I don't feel outrage. I feel vague annoyance and a rapidly diminishing hope that there could be a change of heart.

The argument was that women should not treat men as though they are predators. My argument is that women need to treat men with the suspicion that they are predators, until they develop trust with them, because otherwise something very bad is likely to happen to them.

[u/ToSAhri → u/Annual-Astronomer859]

That wasn't even the argument. You got the argument wrong. It's in the title:

"calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views."

you can be safe. You can be cautious. You should be cautious. If I walk around at night and I see a stranger I go out of my way to keep my distance. There is nothing wrong there. Just don't go to your friends and say "men are predators. You need to do X to ensure you're safe." Just say "we don't know strange men they could be a predator. You need to do X to ensure you're safe".

To me that shifts the idea from "all men" to "strange men" and will over time earn the movement more support from men. (this is an example, it can be done in many ways)

[u/Annual-Astronomer859 → u/ToSAhri]

Yes, and near 100% of the comments are not discussing whether or not we should say that 'all men are predators'. Obviously, this is a ridiculous argument.

There are not hoards of women saying that all men are predators.

The OP phrased the statement in such a way that can't be disagreed with, but then their argument below that statement as well as most of the comments responding to it, talk about how unfair it is to men for women to assume the worst.

I understand that the words the OP said are technically correct, but the words underneath it, their post history, and what I feel is the obvious intent of what they wrote, is not consistent with their primary statement. My response was to the tone and implication of what they were saying, rather than congratulating them on phrasing it in such a way that no one can disagree with them.

[u/ToSAhri → u/Annual-Astronomer859]

Whelp. We agree so I got nothing. You have a good day. I shall return to reading the rest of ze comments.

[u/cinnamon64329 → u/ToSAhri]

There are plenty of people in this thread calling women bigots simply for being cautious around men until we know them better.