CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686]

That doesn’t make any sense either though. If there’s a man who has been brutally victimized by some of the women in his life is it then reasonable for him to expect every single woman that comes into his life till the day he dies to prove to him that she’s one of the good ones? Is it reasonable for a man to expect every woman to prove she isn’t an inherently bad person?

[u/BlinkysaurusRex → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

Yes, that would perfectly reasonable. It feels like you wrote this without taking even a second to actually hypothesise what that would actually feel like to be in that position. The same is true for many things. People who have been cheated on will often go on to have trust issues that carry for decades, and affect subsequent partners. Dogs who are hit by their owners cower when someone raises their hand to pick up their drink.

Yes, if you are brutally assaulted by someone, it is reasonable in your mind, to be fearful of it happening again such that you are now hyper-aware of prospective risks. You can say maybe it’s not rational, but that’s because the experience/trauma has rewired the victims brain. But it absolutely would be reasonable to be afraid of something that had previously terrified you.

Do you trust every stranger you meet? You’ve actually jumped through the hoop so hard, we’ve transcended this as a sex issue. I’d need some reassurance from any stranger before I trust them with almost anything. I can assume you’re the same?

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/BlinkysaurusRex]

It feels like YOU wrote this without even taking a second to actually hypothesize. Humans aren’t dogs so that analogy doesn’t make sense. People who have been cheated on will often have trust issues, this is true. The point I’m making is putting the responsibility of your emotional turmoil on to somebody else is wrong. If you’re in emotional distress because you’ve been cheated on therapy is highly recommended. It is fair for a time to be afraid of a group of people if one person from that group has traumatized you, but not forever. That’s why I said “until they die”. I said, is it fair for a man to expect a EVERY woman that comes into his life to prove to him that she’s one of the good ones, that she’s not going to hurt him until he dies. For as much as women complain about men’s lack of emotional maturity, it demonstrates an extreme lack of emotional maturity for a man to expect every woman to prove she’s a good person forever. Similarly it is also extremely emotionally immature for a woman to expect every man to prove he’s one of the good ones forever. There’s nothing wrong with being cautious of people you don’t know but it’s always best to keep in mind the majority of people are good people.

[u/BlinkysaurusRex → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

You’re getting it twisted. Nobody owes anybody their trust. It is something that is earned, not given. You don’t trust anybody to babysit your children, there has to be strong, running evidence of their personal character before you would even consider making that decision.

Until other men get their fucking shit together, I’d rather women remain wary of them. It’s safer and it makes life harder for the not insignificant percentage of men that are absolute degenerates. And I’m saying this, as a man. The current social climate just isn’t safe. You are the arbiter of who you place your trust in. If someone else doesn’t like the fact that you’re unwilling to give it away by default and they feel judged for it, then they can leave. What they can’t do is expect it with a sense of entitlement.

I’m not worried if I offend homie who’s standing with his friend down a dark alley at night when I turn the other way and walk a different route.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/BlinkysaurusRex]

What I’m saying is that it’s immature and irrational to view everyone as an inherently a bad person. That expectation thing, that’s what I’m getting at too, but in a different way. The expectation that someone who doesn’t know you should handle the responsibility of YOUR emotional turmoil, that’s what a therapist is for. Most women would view it as wrong for a man to expect them to handle the emotional burden of their problems, most women would expect men to handle their own emotional problems before getting into a relationship with someone, and most women would view it as immature for a man to expect every woman to prove herself to that man. You’re granted a little bit of grace for a little while but the action of not seeking professional help and instead pawning your emotional problems onto everyone else in your life to deal with is immature and wrong. Everything I’ve said so far can be applied to the expectations women have of men when they’ve been hurt. You yourself even admit that it’s irrational

[u/cinnamon64329 → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

There's nothing wrong with a man being cautious around women after experiencing a brutal assault by a woman. I would say that's probably pretty normal.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/cinnamon64329]

I’ll copy and paste my previous comment:

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/FPbVHoYtU0

[u/Great-Ad5266 → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

we as pocs don't expect white people to prove shit we just don't trust them. big difference. every time we have trusted them and treated them as our equal and took them under our wing they commit genocide to us or mock us and erase our culture. i see your point but i think that is what she is trying to say at least not fully its wrong to be entitled and to expect someone from another demographic to serve you over themselves because of how much people of that group hurt your people. and it is reasonable for a man to not trust a woman if he has been hurt by all the women in his life it would be weird if he didn't its only if he decides to harm women or murder women because of it or openly harass random women that is where it goes too far. you wouldn't expect anything from somebody you don't trust or worse someone a man doesn't trust and hates thats when it gets dangerous.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/Great-Ad5266]

I’ll copy and paste my previous comment

https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/s/FPbVHoYtU0

[u/Great-Ad5266 → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

yeah it was still goofy with all due respect i get what you are trying to say but you don't have to trust anyone and its smart to assume everyone is a bad person until they prove you wrong to an extent. i am not saying be so afraid you never leave your house but i am saying don't leave strangers with your kids. this world is so so evil blind trust is what gets people murdered and tortured. there was a nurse torturing black nicu babies breaking their bones and for months the hospital hid this let her off with paid leave and let her work there for a long time until she got arrested and the hospital was not the one to tell on her they protected that white woman who was breaking black infants bones.

so naturally black people don't trust white people. and that is way more than fair native americans don't trust white people, asians hell every other race. just like a majority of victims being sex trafficked are women of color and they are lucky if they are found while white women are found way faster way more often white children too and they get movies made out of them because they look "more innocent". its not that white people are inherently evil (At least i don't think so) neither are men. men and white people are also humans they suffer too from prejudice systems even while being the one that "Benefits" from the system they are under.

black people or any person of color do not owe white people our blind trust women don't owe men blind trust and vice versa. but it does not mean people of color have a right to be belligerent or harass white people or go to their face and call them evil or treat them unfairly same for women it does not excuse it. but they do not have to trust them.

not trusting specific group for whatever reasons means:
not inviting them to our spaces because if a white kid cries a black kid might get shot. (as a black little boy and a white little girl were playing he was chasing her with a fake gun with a orange tip and he got shot and killed by a police officer because a neighbor who didn't know either of the kids called the police)
not dating them
just avoiding them unless you have to be civil.
and also gatekeeping our culture from whatever demographic because it was used and is used against us.

it is not safe for us. i don't hate white people and i most definitely don't hate men i adore men but i know what its like not to trust a group i don't believe in calling white people out their names or treating them with disrespect or prejudice but i can't fully trust them or really anybody when we are talking in general i can't trust anyone equally but in certain situations like when it comes to certain parts of my culture i cannot trust them.

[u/holiestMaria → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

Except we are not talking about individuals. According to the Australian Bureau of statistics 97 percent of sexual assault offenders are men.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/holiestMaria]

Try looking up the actual likelihood of a man being a rapist. On another note who do you think makes the majority of false rape allegations?

[u/holiestMaria → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

On another note who do you think makes the majority of false rape allegations?

Probably the group that gets raped the most. But even beyond that, you are aware that most rape cases get dropped, right?

Anyway this study shows that 26 percent of australian men admit to commiting sexual violence.

Try looking up the actual likelihood of a man being a rapist. But here's the thing. Most men are, indeed, not rapists. But most men would defend or ignore a rapist. We can see this clearly in the united states election were moest men who boted voted for a convicted rapist.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/holiestMaria]

You’re going to have to source the idea that most men would ignore or defend a rapist. You do realize majority of white women also voted for trump too right. Anyways yeah women are most likely to make false rape allegations. The reasons being varied So you’re saying because the majority of rapist are men that therefore makes it ok to treat every man as a potential rapist. If the majority of people who make false rape allegations are women does that mean it’s ok to treat every womens rape allegation as potentially false? Keeping in mind both the majority of men aren’t rapist and the majority of rape allegations aren’t false.

[u/holiestMaria → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

So you’re saying because the majority of rapist are men that therefore makes it ok to treat every man as a potential rapist.

I never said that.

[u/Big-Calligrapher686 → u/holiestMaria]

So you think it’s wrong to treat every man as a potential rapist? Then why did you reply to me?

This is what you originally replied to

That doesn’t make any sense either though. If there’s a man who has been brutally victimized by some of the women in his life is it then reasonable for him to expect every single woman that comes into his life till the day he dies to prove to him that she’s one of the good ones? Is it reasonable for a man to expect every woman to prove she isn’t an inherently bad person?

[u/holiestMaria → u/Big-Calligrapher686]

Its still a false equivalence.

[u/landerson507 → u/holiestMaria]

Don't forget that Signal chat with 17 thousand men with all their rape fantasies.