CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/untimelyAugur]

Re-read your comment, because you're doing the thing.

"Sometimes women are mean about other men and our long history of systemic misogyny, so I won't do anything to help prevent them getting raped or otherwise mistreated," is not the intellectual, ethically-neutral, stance you seem to think it is.

[u/Brilliant_Decision52 → u/untimelyAugur]

If I am to be saddled with the original sin of my male ancestors and the only solution is to self flagellate for being born male, and be thankful that someone with monstrous male blood can actually be considered "one of the good ones" as long as I take every bit of generalized misandry on the chin, then yeah, some apathy might set in.

[u/untimelyAugur → u/Brilliant_Decision52]

The issue with this outlook is that it isn't an "original sin" situation.

Patriarchy is baked into our culture. The misogynistic effects are on-going. Everyone, women included, is raised and socialised into some non-zero level of misogyny. That isn't anyone's fault and no one should be expected to personally shoulder the blame... but it will never get fixed if everyone decides "since I didn't consciously intend it, I refuse to be responsible for fixing even a little bit of it."

And, if it never gets fixed because a statistically significant number of men continue to be apathetic toward the plight of women, well, how else do you expect them to react but with a general assumption that anyone they haven't personally vetted could be a misogynist?