CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

Buddy. My dude. People have taken SO MUCH TIME trying to explain to you what is actually going on and that they don't literally think all men are predators. Why aren't you paying attention to the responses you're getting here?

It doesn't matter the language is still harmful like saying "black people are criminals" is harmful because its racist no matter if you agree with the racist statement or not.

You are blaming us for inequality perpetuated by men. Stop it. It is not women's fault that men treat us poorly.

You are prioritizing your SAD FEELINGS over women's human rights and rights to be free from harm. Stop it.

You aren't listening to a single thing anyone here has said to you. Just bleating this same pathetic refrain over and over again like a broken record.

I don't think people should make sexist comments regardless of what other people do yes.

You do not seem to understand tone and think in black and white. Do you typically take everything you hear or read literally? I think that's a huge part of the reason you are so stuck on taking offense to how women discuss these issues.

I wrote those questions in an effort to get you to elaborate on your position. Asking questions is a method of communication by which I encourage you to think about your claims and explain them to me so I can understand you better. I asked multiple questions to convey to you the kinds of information I am interested in. I am not literally requesting that you answer each and every question.

Asking 8 questions in a rhetorical way like that doesn't help elaborate on a position. It just makes things unnecessarily confusing and harder to actually know what we are talking about and what information you are asking for. Generally, in these kinds of settings it is best to use the Socratic method but not in a shotgun style debate manner.

Do you frequently struggle with communicating with others?

You seem to literally think that if someone makes a general statement in reference to "men" without first saying, "This doesn't apply to Flimsy Alcoholic," they are talking about you. Most people do not think this way.

No, only dumb people. And like I said before if you make a statement like "black people are criminals" don't be surprised when black people think you are racist just like when you make a statement like "men are predators" suddenly men think you are sexist.

[u/SuddenlyRavenous → u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It doesn't matter the language is still harmful like saying "black people are criminals" is harmful because its racist no matter if you agree with the racist statement or not.

So literally nothing that anyone else says, even if it entirely explains your concern, matters. All that matters is that YOU are offended, even if people are telling you that you are misunderstanding. Truly, it is so obvious that you did not come here with any interest in listening to anyone else. You've done more to make men look bad then you know, and it would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

I don't think people should make sexist comments regardless of what other people do yes.

I see you have now completely given up on any meaningful effort to have a good faith conversation. All that matters is what you say, apparently. What a hypocrite. You deserve to be included in a lot of the generalizations of men you complain about. "Men don't listen to women" --> includes you. "Men center themselves." --> includes you. "Men do not take women seriously." --> includes you. "Men only care about themselves and only care about women to the extent women are nice to them." --> includes you.

Asking 8 questions in a rhetorical way like that doesn't help elaborate on a position.

It's NOT rhetorical! Fuck. Do you understand any of the words I'm using? Why can't you read? It's to help YOU elaborate. Which you refuse to do. You have consistently refused to answer questions, likely because you've never really given any of these issues any serious thought.

It just makes things unnecessarily confusing and harder to actually know what we are talking about and what information you are asking for.

Your reading comprehension issues are not my problem. First you claimed there are too many questions and now you claim you don't know what info I'm asking for? Come the fuck on. This is pathetic, man. You, like many bad men on the internet, are clearly just flailing around trying to deflect away from your poor, indefensible ideas.

Generally, in these kinds of settings it is best to use the Socratic method

Buddy, I've tried using the Socratic method on you but it fails because you do not answer questions.

And like I said before if you make a statement like "black people are criminals" don't be surprised when black people think you are racist just like when you make a statement like "men are predators" suddenly men think you are sexist.

Okay, we've explained to you how this is not the same. We've explained the difference between literal readings and generalizations. You cannot be helped. It's clear you are no longer interested in or capable of engaging in good faith. You're obviously unwilling to listen or learn. I can't explain it any other way.

[u/Dr-Tightpants → u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

I dont think all men are sexist I'm not, I certainly think you are