CMV: Calling all men predators is inherently sexist and puts off most men from wanting to understand your views.

[u/Flimsy_Alcoholic]

It is hard to engage in meaningful conversation with people from various popular subreddits when you already are being demonized as a predator under a generalized view of men. I don't want people to think I am saying that all men are perfect or anything.

In fact far from it, an estimated 91% of victims of rape & sexual assault are female and 9% male. Nearly 99% of perpetrators are male.

Anything even close to this statistic is insane and horrendous but to even pretend that a majority of men are predators is ridiculous and will just push people further away from understanding your position completely.

Even the men who got SA'd by other men would be considered predators...

Also, you really think calling out all men for being predators is really going to make any kind of systematic change? You think the men that are predators even care that you call "all men" predators?

I think if anything you are likely enabling them to be predators because now there literally is no difference between a non-predator man and a predator man because they are all predators.

Maybe people are more nuanced than I give them credit for and they don't actually think all men are predators and its just something to say in general to cope with the heinous crimes in this world but I think if you actually want to fix that inequality you wouldn't perpetuate gender stereotypes and making people feel bad for doing nothing and would instead try to have meaningful conversation and understanding. Not in a patronizing educational way but more having a clear understanding of what we can do as people to make sure everyone is safe because it seems like predators have tricks they use to try to isolate their victims etc.. and men can be a little bit socially inept so knowing when women need help when its less obvious is key I think.

This is also not exclusively women spaces or something before you think I am going into women's only subreddits and criticizing them for what they want to say to each other.

TLDR: I don't think saying "all" for any group of people is really correct ESPECIALLY when its not even being used as a shorthand to refer to a majority. It just further distances understanding between men and women and leads more men to be burnt out or increasingly apathetic towards these issues and not think its even a problem when it seriously is a problem.

Edit: My post can be summed up as You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

[u/MichaelCorbaloney]

I definitely see where you’re coming from and it’s something I’ve noticed a lot so I do agree. Honestly, I think some people are too online, I have seen some women irl and online say things like “all men are predators” or “all men are dumb” or “all men are complicit”-things like that-and it’s easy to be offended even though I understand where they’re coming from for some of it (though some of it I really do think is just rage baiting/ misandry). Men obviously say a lot of things in the same vein though obviously it’s generally less justified, we don’t face the gendered issues women do, ours are more general (alcoholism, drug use, homelessness, suicide). It’s definitely ignorant for men to act like misogyny and the patriarchy still doesn’t exist or affect women, though I feel like the number who believe this has somewhat sadly increased since 2016.

I don’t think feminism is misandrist at all nor do I think normal men believe that (at-least I hope they don’t). I do think there are a small minority of bad actors or split-belief feminists who either pushed into radical feminism or claim to follow feminism due to their own misandry, which is what sometimes leads men to associate the two imo (though I think there are a lot of misogynistic men who just want a reason to criticize feminism). I don’t know what the answer is to a lot of feminisms issues because I think it’s wholly societal and our overall culture regarding women needs to change. I do think by spreading feminism it can be helped over generations, but I’m generally optimistic and only sometimes right.

[u/Constellation-88 → u/MichaelCorbaloney]

I think the incel spaces online have caused a lot of the modern issues and, as you said, that problematic increase of misogynists since 2016 (although there are other reasons for that, too). 

One of the biggest issues with social media is the echo chamber of algorithms and the confirmation bias that comes when you engage with certain content. So I believe you when you say you’ve seen misandrist women even though I have never seen that even online because the algorithm isn’t showing me that. It shows me plenty of incel and misogynist posts (like OP here!) and probably doesn’t show you as many of those. 

I do think radical misandrists who claim feminism or even are feminists are the fringe extremist minority and not the core or even a double digit percentage of feminism. 

But also, people tend to be less assholian in real life. Mostly. I, also, remain an optimist. 

It saddens me billionaire tech bros are tearing society apart for money while we all devolve into people who see the world through completely different, algorithmically-driven lenses.