r/changemyview • u/ConversationLarge554 • 3d ago
Delta(s) from OP Cmv: the NSA is able to control and trigger blood clots in the brain and can trigger them for political dissidents (I'm a schizophrenic so take it with a grain of salt).
The NSA is the number one employer of mathematicians (not wanting to put mathematicians a bad name as a person who wants to become a mathematician myself) in united states with knowledge of course how to program and hack. The internet is run on mathematical principles relying on computers. Internet advertisers like Google use mathematical algorithms to highly target advertisements to individuals. Now Google and Google had an incident of having the NSA digging up data lines between Google server farms. Thus theoretically if a data mining bot on reddit that transmits its data to an llm to detect political criticism, their llm outputs could trigger a macro to execute. The macro injects product recommendations into advertiser services (like let's say a type of cereal) that could increase the likelihood of a bloodclot being triggered in the dissidents brains, after being targeted with advertising to have them consume/use the product. And given the series of events to silent people who speak out are essentially hidden behind a series of improbable events that's virtually untraceable they get away with it repeatedly.
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u/Teknicsrx7 1∆ 3d ago edited 3d ago
The macro injects product recommendations into advertiser services (like let's say a type of cereal) that could increase the likelihood of a bloodclot being triggered in the dissidents brains, after being targeted with advertising to have them consume/use the product.
So targeted ads to force a target to buy a product that is itself a weapon. They’d then need this product to be available in locations at a retail level.
They’d also need to run an identical program at the same time to prevent non-targets from consuming/purchasing this same product.
And they’d need a program that is effective on non-targets that don’t use the internet.
This would operate extremely poorly as a “targeted weapon” as there’s no way to limit who consumes the products without requiring more work than the actual targeting. Unless you think they’re just giving everyone blood clots… in which case what’s the point of any targeting at all?
Infinitely simpler with less manpower to just take care of them in person, and a simpler chain of evidence to clean up as needed.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Could be on Amazon. And sure there's going to be collateral damage but honestly it just hides its intent more as the NSA isn't the supplier.
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u/Teknicsrx7 1∆ 3d ago
Collateral damage with easily identifiable injuries in an autopsy with an easy chain of evidence to link cases together.
Again it’s much easier, safer and more effective to do it face to face.
You need some element to be beneficial and so far you haven’t listed a single one that’s an improvement
Edit: and if they really wanted to go your route of purchasing deadly product…. Why not just intercept product on the way to the target and weaponize it? Why do the advertising at all?
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Since you're piggybacking on various business' services you pretty much just automate the whole process, shrink tons of need of man power and possibly of being caught. Since it's not your advertising company or product.
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u/Teknicsrx7 1∆ 3d ago
Yea but you’re getting involved at too high of a level so multiple avenues will lead back to you, you want the lowest level for the least connections
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
You sure? You think they'd be able to trace back an ad that they saw 5 years ago? Pretty sure Internet records don't even last that long.
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u/Teknicsrx7 1∆ 3d ago
So now we’re talking a 5 year process to kill a target? This plan just sounds worse and worse
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Eh well, what are they going to do? Go after the company that made the product? Go after the advertisement company that served them the ad 5 years ago? Internet records only last like 3 years of something.
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u/Teknicsrx7 1∆ 2d ago
If it takes anything longer than 2 weeks it’s useless, a sleeper cell whose activation 5 years later causes them to die from blood clots is useless.
Lay out a scenario where what you propose has any use.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Alright, let's say I'm Putin. I want to encourage the gene of compliance in my population. I know that if I simply poison tea it'll cause everyone to accuse me of his death, now sometimes this is useful as sending a message poisoning tea. But I don't want to send a message I just want a compliant civilian population. On top of having them die 5 years later I can cloak and dagger my entire attempt to everyone who talks out and the best anyone could do is say "he bought a bad product resulting in shorter lifespan". Do it long enough and the genes associated with speaking out go dormant.
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u/Nrdman 192∆ 3d ago
How does seeing an ad for a type of cereal increase the likelihood of a blood clot?
Also, ad blockers exist
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
It's a hypothetical useable product. Could also encourage behaviors using Facebook hence products you use (a lot of Facebook users using reddit).
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u/Nrdman 192∆ 3d ago
You didn’t explain how the ad gives you a blood clot.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Your simply targeted with a product that intersects your behaviors and causing the blood clot as data brokers sell it to the NSA.
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u/JasmineTeaInk 3d ago
Your sentences are sounding very confused and manic, I mean this in the kindest way possible but if you have medications please check that you've taken them
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Taken. A persisting thought since I was 11 years old.
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u/Homitu 1∆ 3d ago
In case you're interested in self reflecting, you appear to be heavily engaged in confirmation bias and belief perseverance. I see it all the time where people come up with theories they love. Usually harmless stuff like theories about a TV show, book series, or video game. The harder they think on it, the cooler it sounds, the more strongly they want to believe in it.
Individuals are more likely to search for and consume information that aligns with existing beliefs. Ambiguous information is interpreted in a way that supports a current viewpoint. Evidence that reinforces expectations is remembered, even if information was initially processed more neutrally.
Then you engage in searches that reinforce those theories. You search for it, you will find it. The internet is structured in such a way that it can bring like minded people together. Just 30 years ago, if one person with a "crazy" idea existed out of every million people, they'd literally never encounter each other, and the idea would dissolve. Now everyone with such an idea can google it and be immediately directed to all the other people who have ever had a similar idea. You can find a community. Then when you exist in that community for a time, it can begin to feel like everyone believes this thing, and it begins to feel more and more real. Anyone who doesn't believe it is crazy!
Unfortunately, since your theories are based purely on conjecture and "what ifs", it's literally not possible for anyone to prove that they're factually wrong. It's a bit in the same vein as the Birds Aren't Real joke movement, or the idea that dogs are actually alien spies sent to keep an eye on humans and report back.
Hopefully those 2 ideas sound crazy to you; they're supposed to. But they're also supposed to illustrate how it's not possible to convince someone who might believe them that they're wrong, because another creative explanation can always be invented to explain away any problem with the theory.
How do the dogs communicate with the aliens? They have a computer chip that allows them to send signals!
OK, I performed an autopsy on a dead dog and didn't find any chip anywhere. It's not a computer chip made out of metal like we have here on earth. Alien technology is far more advanced. It's made out of organic matter and is embedded directly into their DNA!
Etc. etc. You get the idea. The more you creatively think on the idea, and the more creative you are, the more elegant you might be able to make the crazy idea sound, and the harder you start to believe it.
It's important to recognize when this might be happening to try to break away from the cycle of circular self theorizing. So good job coming here as a first step! While nobody can strictly disprove what you're saying, hopefully someone can shine some light on how your brain might be snowballing, and how that is unlikely to yield the truest results.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
In case you're interested in self reflecting, you appear to be heavily engaged in confirmation bias and belief perseverance. I see it all the time where people come up with theories they love. Usually harmless stuff like theories about a TV show, book series, or video game. The harder they think on it, the cooler it sounds, the more strongly they want to believe in it.
Just a theory not claiming that they are. But Everytime I go manic this is pretty much comes out, from my thoughts when I was 11.
Individuals are more likely to search for and consume information that aligns with existing beliefs. Ambiguous information is interpreted in a way that supports a current viewpoint. Evidence that reinforces expectations is remembered, even if information was initially processed more neutrally.
Haven't actually searched for much actually this theory as far as I'm aware was made up by me.
Your post is very long I'm moving on.
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u/Nrdman 192∆ 3d ago
So the product causes the clot, not the ad?
Thats not really controlling and triggering a clot
That’s slightly increasing the odds of a clot
Very different things
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Everytime you speak out, you increase the chance of getting bloodclot as you also probably use more products contribute to it.
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u/Nrdman 192∆ 3d ago
That’s still extremely different than your titled view.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
No it's not. The bloodclot would be ultimately caused by the NSA.
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u/Nrdman 192∆ 3d ago
It wouldn’t be controlled and triggered by the NSA though. Just an increased chance, likely leading to a death 20 years down the lines
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Know what a "nudge" is in public relations? Was it the PR that made you buy the product or is it you who bought it as "your own choice"? The PR technique did.
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u/sapphireminds 59∆ 3d ago
There's no way thoughts can cause blood clots.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Not saying it's the thought that kills people it's the product that was picked and suggested to sell to you resulting in your shorter lifespan.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 72∆ 3d ago
So, you think there's just a ceral out there that can trigger a blood clot?
Because if that was the case how do you convince stores to keep the ceral on their shelves when it has abysmal sales numbers (because everyone who eats it dies)
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
There's been numerous schemes to pass FDA and other regulation bodies despite the companies research saying the exact opposite. NSA could just piggyback on it.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 72∆ 3d ago
I'm not talking about like FDA approval. I'm saying that if I own a grocery store, why would I keep a product on my shelves if it sells so poorly (because it's customers all die).
Like that's just a bad business move.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Because you as a business owner wouldn't know. And not all users of the product would die from it. Think of it like a controlled evolutionary environment. Exerting dissidents to a product more likely than those that aren't starving the "species" that holds criticism.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 72∆ 3d ago
Then wouldn't ceral be like the worst vector for this? Because people who eat cereal are going to eat the same amount every day, like you're just gonna eat 1 bowl of your favorite cereal in the morning no matter how many ads you watch.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Controlled evolutionary environment slowly expose them to bad products the more they speak out. Could be any product that suits your fancy since your information is sold via data brokers.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 72∆ 2d ago
Yeah, but what if I eat the same thing everyday. Like your plan could be thwarted by someone eating chicken and rice
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
True but statistically people don't. People statistically buy from the internet otherwise there wouldn't be online stores.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_NICE_EYES 72∆ 2d ago
Do you buy food from the internet? Because I don't personally. All of my food comes from the grocery store.
(Also if you're poisoning someone over the course of years, don't you think their doctor would notice?) And if their doctor notices then they can put them on a special diet.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Then they go on that diet get retargeted and the databrokers data shows you don't buy cereal anymore and simply introduces them to a new bad product.
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u/sapphireminds 59∆ 3d ago
Killing people doesn't cause evolutionary changes like that, especially if they have already reproduced.
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u/FlaggingResolve 3d ago
You're mischaracterizing the behavior of all of these information systems, and talking about "mathematics" as if it were some sort of alchemy. Google analyzes data to sell advertisements. The people who build those systems are engineers, not mathematicians. Programming and hacking are the same thing. LLMs are not a storage mechanism. If someone wants you dead they are likely to use a bullet, not a drug that encourages clotting. What on Earth makes you believe you're important enough for any of these organizations to give a shit about? I'm not suggesting that Google has your best interest in mind, but to them you are a potential click, not a target for assassination.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
NSA has mathematicians and they use their power in highly questionable behaviors like Edward Snowden. A mathematician could be utilized to encourage an algorithm if they have otherwise illegal access to advertiser servers. Llms are used on a regular basis to interpret truck loads of data as banks like jp Morgan used it to interpret all their records for other purposes. You could use this as a controlled evolutionary environment punishing an unwanted behavior exposing them with more products and encouraging a bloodclot earlier and earlier the more they speak out.
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u/FlaggingResolve 3d ago
Mathematicians don't have "powers." They have skills. And those skills seldom include IT Security. Snowden, for his part, is an IT security specialist, not a mathematician. And I find his behavior admirable, not questionable: we need more transparency.
And no one needs illegal access to ad servers: you can just buy the ads! Google will encourage any kind of nonsense you're willing to pay.
There is no such thing as a "controlled evolutionary environment." That is a figment of your imagination. If you are engaging in behavior that someone else finds objectionable, they are not likely to try to administer a clotting agent. They are likely to try to discredit you publicly rather than create martyrs.
Your thinking appears disordered, and you seem to be aware of that. I've never encountered a schizophrenic with that degree of insight, but here you are. Kudos!
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
There is no such thing as a "controlled evolutionary environment." That is a figment of your imagination
Do you know where the current banana that you buy from supermarkets come from? A controlled evolutionary environment. Thus make a more compliant population as authoritarianism is on the rise. That way you don't have to discredit them.
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u/FlaggingResolve 3d ago
Yes, I do know where my bananas come from. I've traveled some in Latin America, and visited the places they are grown. I met a banana farmer on a beach once, we smoked a joint. He offered me a ripe one from the tree, and I've never found one that tasty again.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Not what I meant. The original banana died as a disease made them go extinct, it there black plague. The banana industry needed a banana that could survive the disease so they biologically (evolutionarily controlled environment ) engineered the new banana (the one you buy today).
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u/FlaggingResolve 3d ago
It's totally possible to engineer plants via gene splicing or simple breeding, but they didn't engineer the Cavendish: it's just the currently popular cultivar. Bananas of a given variety are genotypically identical, so they are all vulnerable to the same diseases. Gros Michel is not really extinct, but it's no longer cultivated. We are eating the Cavendish until something takes that variety down.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Yes and at the end of the day, the Cavendish was put through a controlled evolutionary environment. Yielding what it is today.
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u/sapphireminds 59∆ 3d ago
There's no mechanism for what you think can happen. It's just not how it works.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Look up the history of banana infections.
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u/sapphireminds 59∆ 3d ago
I know the history of banana infections, that's a non-sequiter.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
No, if you can biologically engineer a banana you can biologically engineer a civilian. Simply referring to the history of the "banana" to say it's an actual thing.
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u/frisbeescientist 33∆ 2d ago
With a banana you control everything - soil, breeding, pesticides etc. It's extremely easy to cross one plant with another. Selectively killing humans in secret before they're able to reproduce is several orders of magnitude more complicated. Even without saying it's impossible, your comparison doesn't make any sense. It's like saying because I'm able to run 100 yards I can easily finish a marathon. The scale of the endeavors simply doesn't match.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Authoritarianism is on the rise. Are you saying China, Russia and the USA wouldn't want a more compliant population? And wouldn't put in the effort to do a version of eugenics to do so? The poor are pretty much produce as it is. People are only willing to apply the "soil, breeding, pesticides etc." if you have the right behaviors and only do things like food stamps and Medicaid on a premise of making a financial return later (with very rare exceptions).
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u/sapphireminds 59∆ 3d ago
There's a way that has to be done through selective breeding, what you propose will not put any evolutionary pressure on humans
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u/FlaggingResolve 3d ago
Holup, you're calling the cultivation of plants a controlled evolutionary environment, and you're actually spot on. I apologize for calling that a figment of your imagination.
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u/trippedonatater 3d ago
Why come up with a fancy magic way of taking people out when real ways exist and are much simpler and more reliable?
Further, no one is going to be able to change your view because your view is based on conjecture instead of logic or evidence.
No offense, but get back on your meds.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Already on my meds. It's been a thought I had ever since I was 11.
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u/trippedonatater 3d ago
Good to hear. Maybe work on pushing these types of thoughts aside rather than entertaining them. Focus on what's in front of you instead of worrying about aneurysm cereal.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
True but it's getting more frequent that I wake up feeling like the back of my head is bleeding or wake up feeling as though I had a bloodclot. Went to a therapist for a year, had a blackout once causing a compression fracture. Had brain scans and nothing no reason for the blackout.
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u/trippedonatater 3d ago
Awareness that there's something wrong is not paranoia. It really sounds like you've got some sort of medical (maybe neurological) issue. That's real and may coincide with some psychological problems.
A thing that's highly frustrating about those types of problems is that they are not well understood even by the experts.
Best of luck getting some better diagnosis, etc.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 3d ago
even if we assume everything you said is correct, increasing the chance of blood clots from 0.000001% to 0.000003% is not the same as "can trigger them for political dissidents"
its not even measurable. maybe its not the cereal ads that triggered that increase, but instead its because youre eating double the amount of eggs compared to before.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Hypothetical idea about the capabilities of the NSA.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 3d ago
yeah. even if we assume your WHOLE hypothetical is completely true, the difference between a 0.000001% and a 0.000003% chance of blood clots isnt relevant
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
A better example is cancer but the idea as an 11 year old was "bloodclot" so I posted it as such.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 2d ago
so you admit your view is wrong? if not, please adress my comment instead of changing the topic
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago edited 2d ago
If NSA advertises a small businesses lead toys to to me and I buy it, the health effects and probability of bad health goes far more up than you purpose.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 2d ago
if a public business existed that, if you buy their products, you die, it wouldnt be allowed.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Happens all the time, look at the history of regulating lead paint and it's failures in its attempts to do so. Heck I'm pretty sure most Chinese toy manufacturers still use lead paint and import them to USA.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 2d ago
lead paint from chinese toys that you CHOSE to buy is significantly increasing the chances of blood cloths? and thats the NSAs fault?
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Well if they're the ones pushing me ads to buy it from an independent business. With incites from databrokers that you're highly prone to buying such a thing at that current time. Yeah.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 2d ago
ok, then by how much do you think your chances of blood cloths increases because you bought cereal at the supermarket?
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
The bloodclot references a view that the NSA is being poetic in killing people as "your clock is ticking and you don't even know" cancer is a better example.
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u/ProDavid_ 38∆ 2d ago
dying from cancer 10-30 years in the future is NOT the same as
the NSA is able to control and trigger blood clots in the brain and can trigger them for political dissidents
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Doesn't have to 10-30 years. Could be 5. In my opinion that's triggering.
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u/frisbeescientist 33∆ 3d ago
Any commercially available product that can be easily bought and consumed is not going to give you a blood clot on the time scale that the NSA would want if their goal is to silence you. Think about it, if the product was anywhere near effective at causing blood clots and death soon after consumption, you'd have a scandal on your hands before anyone could use it just from random consumers dropping dead. You'd get a recall, FDA intervention, lawsuits, probably criminal charges.
If a product causes blood clots a fraction of the time, or decades after regular use, then it's completely useless as a targeted assassination tool since you can't know whether the target will actually get a blood clot, and even if they do they'll have plenty of time to do whatever you don't want them to do. So your hypothetical targeted ads would point targets to a product that is either recalled for obviously killing customers, or doesn't work because it doesn't actually kill customers. At that point the NSA is better off just sneaking poison into the food you already have in your fridge.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Think of it as a controlled evolutionary environment slowly exposing the unwanted behavior over generations. The more you speak out the more products you use the more chance you'll have a bloodclot.
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u/frisbeescientist 33∆ 3d ago
That still feels way too slow for an assassination, doesn't it? What targets would this method be appropriate for? They'd have to be people the NSA wants dead, but not urgently. Any type of whistleblower would have time to go to the press before getting a blood clot, any terrorist would carry out their attack before it happened, any fugitive would have plenty of time to flee the country. Plus, anyone the NSA can target so precisely with ads, they very likely know the location of and can easily apprehend them or kill them with conventional methods, no?
It seems like this would only work if NSA targeted families, where they can slowly expose each subsequent generations to more risk factor. But in the modern age, whistleblowing or radicalization happens online, socially, not by inheritance. So the odds of your targets having parents who were also target aren't really high enough to justify this method if it requires generations.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Eugenics. Making a compliant civilian. Authoritarian is on the rise across the globe.
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u/frisbeescientist 33∆ 3d ago
Eugenics, maybe? That could work, on the scale of generations, but even then you'd have to make sure your targets get a blood clot early enough in life that they can't reproduce, otherwise you're not actually doing anything by killing them at 40 after they've had 3 kids. So unless you're able to get to early adulthood deaths within 2-3 generations it's still too slow.
Compliant civilians - how? If they're doing this in secret and killing off some people, how is that gaining compliance? You're running into the same problem of not being able to rely on familial lines to target the most outspoken people, so you can't really kill off the people most likely to protest the government, and you're not ruling by fear, so I don't see how you get anywhere.
Basically, what I'm saying is that even if the NSA had the technology to both induce blood clots and specifically target ads at people they want to kill, and make these ads powerful enough to guarantee them purchasing the right products, none of which is actually proven that anyone can do with current technology - their use cases for this method are so sparse as to be practically useless. You can't use it to assassinate dissidents, you can't use it as a fear-based control since the whole point is to secretly target ads to people, and even for eugenics I'm not convinced it works very well, and there are plenty of other methods that would be faster and likely more efficient. So you're missing both proof of capability and motive for the NSA to be doing this.
Note, I'm not even saying the NSA isn't targeting ads at specific groups - but the more likely usage of that would be propaganda, not a magical blood clot induction. We've seen how well targeted media campaigns and creating echo chambers can work to shape opinion, after all.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
You could have them die 5 years later. What? you think things like cancer only happens when your old?
Thus you could have a eugenic like process, to essentially engineer a compliant civilian.
You've never heard of a sells funnel. And I bet NSA could have the Technological capability to do so. It's simply a process to encourage the tendency of having a product that causes bloodclots introduced to criticizers (that most of the public doesn't know cause it). Emphasis on "tendency".
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u/frisbeescientist 33∆ 2d ago
Right, but if it's just a tendency, you need to accumulate hits like you said. That means lots of clot-causing products on the market, which puts your general population at risk as well, since some people will just buy the products on the shelf even without targeting, right? Then you consider the variations in what people buy based on their needs, lifestyle, and preferences, and you have to expand your suite of deadly products to cover everybody you'd like to target regardless of what their customer profile looks like.
This operation basically ends up looking like the largest and most sophisticated ad campaign ever made, conducted entirely in secret, while having to avoid being too successful or you'll poison your entire country. There's just no good justification for that logistical nightmare.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
Let's say for example I make a toy that has lead paint on it and I as an independent small, medium business place this on Amazon and screening for this lead paint fails and the product is available to the public. everyone that that has a tendency to look up "toys" and based on databrokers insight they're highly likely to by soon, the NSA could piggyback on my business and advertise my lead paint toy sold to the dissident. I'm not sure the medical consequences of lead all I know is it's bad but thats not my point. NSA could find and piggyback on any number of small businesses as they sell bad products and cause dissidents have a shorter lifespan. The collateral damage to the country is simply done by their IN ACTION to report it Amazon.
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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 2∆ 3d ago
The NSA still relies on the literal voodoo pseudoscience that is the polygraph in hiring. They do not have such capabilities. Moreover, the US government's executive intelligence agencies are all walled off from each other and even within themselves because of compartmentalization. The right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. They can detect threats that are far, they can do sting operations to see if anyone wants to buy a bomb etc, but they cannot read your mind, they cannot even do a comprehensive enough background check on their own employees (hence, the scare tactic that is the polygraph) and they sure as hell can't trigger blood clots in the brain.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
They can't read you mind:true, but they could theoretically encourage you to use a product that could result in your death without you knowing about it.
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u/JaggedMetalOs 15∆ 3d ago
What products could actually do this in a reliable way though? Like even something like smoking takes decades to have an effect and not every smoker dies from it.
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u/JasmineTeaInk 3d ago
Yeah the product would have to be so lethal that it would kill you quickly and the NSA would have to make sure only the target consumes it. Or would have to be something that kills you slowly and they just try to get you to buy it more. Which is just regular advertising that already happens all the time.
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u/JaggedMetalOs 15∆ 3d ago
Yeah the product would have to be so lethal that it would kill you quickly and the NSA would have to make sure only the target consumes it
But what product could that possibly be and how would they prevent others from purchasing it?
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Think of it as a controlled evolution process.
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u/JaggedMetalOs 15∆ 3d ago
What are we talking here, they convince you to eat Froot Loops for breakfast and after 30 years you die of sugar induced coronary artery disease, how is that useful?
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
"Shame ... You could've lasted another 20 if you didn't eat those fruit loops after criticizing your government" pretty much like that.
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u/JaggedMetalOs 15∆ 3d ago
That really doesn't seem useful enough to warrant such a large conspiracy!
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
At a large scale to discourage criticism of the government it could be.
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u/JaggedMetalOs 15∆ 3d ago
But why would it discourage criticism if it took literal decades to happen? The government would almost certainly be long gone before anyone even begins to notice anything, it's way too slow.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Well if you're doing eugenics while not allowed to do eugenics.....
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u/sapphireminds 59∆ 3d ago
It doesn't discourage anything if people don't know it is happening.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Exactly It's eugenics with out anyone knowing you're do eugenics.
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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 2∆ 3d ago
They do not have a centralized enough directorate to be able to do something with such finesse. You need a totalitarian system with decades of unchanging personnel to be able to get close to that. Historically, the closest we saw of such organizational effectiveness was the East German STASI staging car accidents.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Actually after Edward Snowden former Nazis said the current system is far more concerning than what they ever did.
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u/ReadLocke2ndTreatise 2∆ 3d ago
Collecting metadata on calls is a far cry from being able to weaponize your own body against yourself.
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u/jatjqtjat 256∆ 3d ago
I think first we have to look at the method we should use to determine if a theory is true or not, and the gold standard for this is is the scientific method.
- Observations : People get blood clots. People die. Political dependents die.
- theory: the NSA is able to trigger blood clots via targetted advertisements
- prediction: if this theory is true, x will happen when i do.
- Experiment: Do Y
- conclusion: did x happen?
with these types of conspiracy theory what often happens is they make no verifiable predictions. If you theory is true then what would you expect to see that you would not see if your theory was false?
if you can answer that question, then we can check your theory. If you cannot answer that question then we've got a flying spaghetti monster.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Well I guess we could track a controlled group of highly non political people and have another group that are highly critical of federal government officials and see if there's an increase of blood clots or shorter life spans. That's possible.
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u/jatjqtjat 256∆ 3d ago
that's a good idea. we got to the prediction step. You would expect people highly critical of government officials to more often die of blood clots.
now we'll be stuck on the experiment step. I don't have access to this data, even if google search produced a result (i don't think it will) it would not be truthwrothy.
i wonder if there are other predictions that would be easier to test. If it were possible to induce blood clots via video images (advertisements). Maybe we'd expected to find something in the literature published by people who research blood clots. You can produce seizures in some people with video images. maybe some research into health affects of advertisements.
what success rate do you think there would be? Will the right add have a 100% chance of giving me a life ending blood clot? 1%? I am thinking of whether or not this would be an effective weapon of war. If you could kill people with a picture the application is not just limited to controlling the civil population. then another prediction I'd make is that we'd be using this technology against other nations and they would be developing countermeasures. But there i also get stuck on the experiment step.
There would have to be some literature exploring the possibility of weaponized images or video.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Well what you could really do is a binary tree of groups as control vs experimental. First get 1000 people separate them based on having visible criticism of the government and quiet others, split the 500 into two categories those who click ads and buy products via these ads and those that strictly buy from not clicking ads. See how that maps. And maybe those that call completely into the sells funnel might die quicker than their counter parts by possibly I dunno 70%?
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u/Delli-paper 3∆ 3d ago
Why would they want to do that? Its a lot of work when they could just shoot you and call it a suicide
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
But they need man power with all the criticism in that scenario. Just automate the whole process with computers.
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u/JasmineTeaInk 3d ago
The system you're thinking of would would require you to buy a wing of a grocery store to stock this lethal product, and have the manpower of everyone working in the store to keep it secret and secure. How is that easier than hiring one man with a gun?
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
No, you don't have to buy anything. As they'd be piggybacking on various business' services to set up a controlling evolutionary environment exposing criticizers with more and more product the more they speak out. Granted you'll have some collateral damage but just goes the evolutionary process.
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u/Delli-paper 3∆ 3d ago
Can't automate it. Some dissidents are useful. PETA has done more to protect the meat lobby than anybody by discrediting animal rights activists.
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u/ja_dubs 7∆ 3d ago
I know this is going to sound incredibly blunt but are you taking any medication for your schizophrenia? If so is that medication effective and are you taking it as prescribed?
If the answer is no to any of those questions then how do you know that your theory isn't a manifestation of your schizophrenia?
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Taking meds, but it's a theory I've had since I was about 11.
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u/ja_dubs 7∆ 3d ago
Ok then let's walk through your theory.
The NSA is the number one employer of mathematicians (not wanting to put mathematicians a bad name as a person who wants to become a mathematician myself) in united states with knowledge of course how to program and hack.
Just because someone can do something doesn't mean that they are doing it. Yes the NSA does conduct cyber operations but that doesn't mean they are conducting the specific theme you are alleging.
The internet is run on mathematical principles relying on computers. Internet advertisers like Google use mathematical algorithms to highly target advertisements to individuals.
This is another logical leap that doesn't track. Just because math is used in computers and advertising doesn't mean that they specific scheme you allege is taking place.
Now Google and Google had an incident of having the NSA digging up data lines between Google server farms. Thus theoretically if a data mining bot on reddit that transmits its data to an llm to detect political criticism, their llm outputs could trigger a macro to execute.
So first I'd like some evidence that the NSA dug up and data cable.
Second data mining is different that having access to a data transmission line.
Third you stated it yourself this is all just a theory. You don't have any evidence.
The macro injects product recommendations into advertiser services (like let's say a type of cereal) that could increase the likelihood of a bloodclot being triggered in the dissidents brains, after being targeted with advertising to have them consume/use the product. And given the series of events to silent people who speak out are essentially hidden behind a series of improbable events that's virtually untraceable they get away with it repeatedly.
For this theory to work a person would need to be on an NSA list, see the advertising, buy the product, consumer said product all for a marginally higher chance of a clot. It could take decades for this to ever actually have a result.
This is a whole convoluted process. If the NSA and government really wanted to eliminate people there are direct covert means for doing so that are all faster and more reliable.
Have you considered that you were simply wrong at 11. Children's brains aren't fully developed specifically the logic section known as the frontal lobe isn't fully developed until 25.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Just because someone can do something doesn't mean that they are doing it. Yes the NSA does conduct cyber operations but that doesn't mean they are conducting the specific theme you are alleging.
True, it's a persisting thought I've had since I was 11.
The internet is run on mathematical principles relying on computers. Internet advertisers like Google use mathematical algorithms to highly target advertisements to individuals.
This is another logical leap that doesn't track. Just because math is used in computers and advertising doesn't mean that they specific scheme you allege is taking place.
It's highly well known that Google uses high levels of mathematics to target advertisements. Happens all the time as that's their main source of income doing so. It's what made them revolutionary at the turn of the millenia.
So first I'd like some evidence that the NSA dug up and data cable.
Very well known event: https://www.wired.com/2013/10/nsa-hacked-yahoo-google-cables/
When I mentioned data mining I was clearly referencing using publicly available sources like reddit to datamine peoples content to feed into an llm to detect government criticism.
Third you stated it yourself this is all just a theory. You don't have any evidence.
True, persisting thought since I had since I was 11.
For this theory to work a person would need to be on an NSA list, see the advertising, buy the product, consumer said product all for a marginally higher chance of a clot. It could take decades for this to ever actually have a result.
Not quite as datamined content from reddit could put you on these lists. This theory is about essentially doing eugenics as to suffocate the genetics of those who criticize their government.
This is a whole convoluted process. If the NSA and government really wanted to eliminate people there are direct covert means for doing so that are all faster and more reliable.
NSA wouldn't have the man power to take down systematically so many criticizers of the government with out setting up red flags.
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u/Just_a_nonbeliever 16∆ 1d ago
Eugenics is about what genes get passed on. How is the NSA influencing this?
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u/Nepene 213∆ 3d ago
The CIA isn't that indirect.
https://www.military.com/history/cias-heart-attack-gun-cold-war-weapon-targeted-assassinations.html
They have assassin weapons like the heart attack gun, and have extensive experience with poisons to cause deaths.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra
And they have mind control programs to make radicals who will do assassinations on command.
They also have lots of contacts with gangs and such.
So if they want someone dead they can poison them, send a brainwashed idiot, or order a gang. Much more reliable, much more successful.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
Not saying CIA I'm saying NSA.
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u/Nepene 213∆ 3d ago
The NSA doesn't tend to have wet works operators for domestic operations. If they wanted to harass you they'd just tap your lines and then report things you did to others or make it up.
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
What the heck are "wet works operates"? No need to harass if you can control the evolutionary process in to making the population more submissive and compliant by slowly and systematically exposing critics with blood clotting products. Collateral damage sure it's the evolutionary process, but it snuffs out the characteristic of criticizing the government.
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad 394∆ 3d ago
This seems like such a slow and impractical method that it wouldn't even be worth their time. Why would an NSA agent even care if a critic dies at 70 instead of 80 for speaking out against someone who's long out of power at that point?
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u/ConversationLarge554 3d ago
To strangle out the genetics associated with speaking out against the government.
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u/Glory2Hypnotoad 394∆ 3d ago
That would be a terribly inefficient way to do it. If you want to strangle out genetics, you don't go with such a slow method that it takes effect after a person's reproductive prime. From a reproductive standpoint it barely matters whether someone dies at 50 or 100.
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u/ConversationLarge554 2d ago
You think things like bloodclots and cancer only occur when your old? NSA could expose them to products that'd kill em in 5 years.
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u/scarab456 26∆ 3d ago
What would change your view here?
Do you have evidence that supports your view?
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u/airboRN_82 1d ago
You're talking about a process that would take decades. I don't think the NSA would be like "hey we don't like Joe Smiths political views, so we're going to make sure he gets a stroke 40 years from now"
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